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school is *done* with my explosive child - Page 3

post #41 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belia View Post
The school's resistance to labeling your son Special Education or giving him an IEP is really perplexing to me. It's my understanding that school's receive finding from the gov't for each student who has an IEP, but nothing for 504 kids.
In order for a child to have an IEP, they must be diagnosed with something that qualifies for an IEP, such as a medical diagnoses of autism. It's really a pretty short list of things that qualify.

This is part of the reason that refusing a label for child *which the child qualifies for* is a bad idea. Parents who refuse to allow their child to be labeled are turning down the IEP and money, and tieing the schools hands.

If you can't be honest with yourself, then there's not much the school can do to help your child.
post #42 of 97
A thought I had while reading this was is your son allowed snacks during the school day? I have found that many of my students (all of whom have IEPs for emotional/behavioral disabilities) show an improvement if they are able to have frequent snacks--provided said snack is reasonably healthy.

Is he meeting with a school social worker or psychologist to learn the skills he may need to avoid the explosive episodes?

Is he recieving frequent positive feedback when he is doing the things he should be doing?

One difficulty with an IEP could be the requirements for qualifying for the IEP if they are looking at a ED disability to qualify---in my state the behavior must be present in at least two distinct settings such as home and school and be interfering with the child's academic progress (which sounds likely in this case). In my state ADHD can be the basis for an IEP under "other health"

Best of luck to you in finding a solution.
post #43 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda on the move View Post
In order for a child to have an IEP, they must be diagnosed with something that qualifies for an IEP, such as a medical diagnoses of autism. It's really a pretty short list of things that qualify.

This is part of the reason that refusing a label for child *which the child qualifies for* is a bad idea. Parents who refuse to allow their child to be labeled are turning down the IEP and money, and tieing the schools hands.

If you can't be honest with yourself, then there's not much the school can do to help your child.
My son had an IEP without a diagnosis. We started with demonstrated need for an SLP for articulation (but it was only because he was missing 6 teeth at once) and then switched the IEP to EBD when his behavior was a challenge in the classroom. It wasn't until 2 1/2 yrs into his school years that I got a diagnosis for him. And his IEP is still not in the category of Autism to reflect that diagnosis.
post #44 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by BetsyNY View Post
What does she expect the school to do? THEIR JOB.

A school doesn't get to wash its hands of the more difficult children, the disruptive, the disabled, merely because it's not convenient for them. The OP's child is entitled to a free and appropriate education; it's mandated by law. If the school can't meet his needs, they are LEGALLY REQUIRED to find someplace that can and foot the bill besides.

OP, you need a lawyer.
While they do need to explore all avenues to keep a child in a school setting, when it comes to behavior such as this, the bigger issue is keeping other kids and teachers safe.

OP, I hope you're able to find a safe way to keep your son in public school. I hope you find the people to help you with this.

Jenn
post #45 of 97
OP as someone who is an educator it sounds like your son needs a behavior plan. The school I work at (granted I work grades 6-12) has a zero tolerance for behavior and any 'violence' gets immediate discipline which can be suspension, expulsion, detention, sent home etc. Attacking a teacher is not taken lightly, even in the primary grades. It is vital to have a behavior plan in place.

Is your son a 'young' 5, meaning his b'day is late summer, early fall? Would he benefit from redoing kindy again and taking another year to mature? Is his kindy all day or 1/2 day? You said this is his first real year of school, he didnt have daycare, preschool or anything like that, so school is a real shock to some kids.

Has your son taken any classes like swim lesson, art class, things like that which run for 30-45 mins? If so, how does he do in a setting like that?.
Your son needs a plan at the school.

If I was in your place I would want daily updates on his behavior, usually a sheet is sent home (i have them for several kids) which shows how the kid did during the day.

It could be that this school just isnt a good fit for your son. Are there other schooling options, charter, other public schools you can transfer to for next year?

But you need to remember your DS is only going to get bigger and stronger and the school isnt going to tolerate this type of behavior.
post #46 of 97
this thread is longish, so I apologize if it has been mentioned. Food intolerances cause adhd type behavior, meltdowns, crying jags and defiant behavior. If all the foods can be removed (during a stay at home period, because it will get worse during withdrawal) then much of what people consider to be behavioral issues just go away. Cut out food colorings, msg ( the hidden forms http://www.msgmyth.com/hidename.htm ), HFCS first. The next likely culprit is dairy (names for dairy http://gfcf-diet.talkaboutcuringauti...-is-casein.htm (about halfway down the page) and soy (http://gfcf-diet.talkaboutcuringauti...hat-is-soy.htm) These are all huge emotional triggers, even if they are organic. Food affects us at a cellular level. Make sure you are eating organic, and avoid GMO also. Cook from scratch and avoid any processed foods. There are many foods that you can use to replace all these other ones in your diet. Check out the allergies section and there are a few groups on yahoo that talk about this as well. gl. oh, and I second pulling him from public school, at least until you get this new way of eating working for you all, give it at least 6 months.
post #47 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by janeisabelle View Post
Hi, everyone, thanks so much for all these replies!

Homeschooling seems like a really difficult option for us based on our economic situation and my actual personality. Also, I think? he needs socialization. He longs for the company of other children.

I am going to try to get moving on a private evaluation with a developmental pediatrician.

Okay, I asked the volunteer if not signing the Behavior Plan was keeping them from implementing it and she said no and that I still shouldn't sign it...but I am suspecting that maybe I should sign it...Okay, reading the second post about it...I should sign it.

Thank you everyone for the information and links.

We are trying different medications. Very low dose of Prozac, we tried one dose of Ritalin [Daytrana] which gave him a tic and made him a zombie, he is on a very low dose of guanfacine which I thought helped but now the school is saying they don't think it does.

I wish the meltdowns were more predictable. That is one thing that make it soooooo hard to prevent them.

Thank you thank you thank you everyone.
I didn't want to scare you with my first posts but since you have brought up the Prozac, here's my story on my 2nd dd, Erica. She is bipolar, OCD, and has social anxiety. She was your son but at dc not school. I had to quit working and we lived off of both sets of in-laws for years until she could go to school in 6th grade. What was hard for us was that children back in the 80's weren't diagnosed with depression. She was labeled by other people as "just shy" or as ADD/ADHD. Autism was also mentioned as she had a hard time looking people in the eye and wouldn't speak to people outside of the family. Medication has been the best thing for her. She has a dh of over 10 years, a beautiful little girl with another one on the way, and a job where she deals with the public. None of which was possible without medication.
post #48 of 97
How much time does he actually get to socialize with other students?
post #49 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by rabrog View Post
While they do need to explore all avenues to keep a child in a school setting, when it comes to behavior such as this, the bigger issue is keeping other kids and teachers safe.

OP, I hope you're able to find a safe way to keep your son in public school. I hope you find the people to help you with this.

Jenn
There are a lot of ways to keep students and teachers safe. Creating safety in a public school setting does not mean the school can consider itself relieved of the obligation to educate a child who is struggling.

It's hard to tell from what has been written here, but it sounds as though a regular classroom may not be the appropriate setting for this student. Regular classrooms are not the only option within the school. It sounds like the initial evaluation was rushed and incomplete, and failed to acknowledge a number of the child's needs.
post #50 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by janeisabelle View Post
stik, his 1on1 person is absolutely wonderful, she is involved with the whole class, not just sitting on top of his every move, and truly does nothing but help hugely. We all love her and he doesn't resent her or feel stigmatized by her at all. Maybe if he were older...

Oh, I really don't want to battle with the school. I really don't. I want to foster a situation where the school and I work together to help my son. Which is how it was going until recently...and I desperately want to get back to that.
This is awesome. So much. Having supportive people who work with our kids day in and day out is what makes the stress and the worry 'do-able' YK? And it is also awesome for those people that you are so happy and willing to work with them. Good relationships with the people helping our kids are so important.

Because the actual people who interact with you and your son ARE so helpful to you, this makes me all the more certain that it is the higher ups who crunch the $$ numbers that are the problem. IME, burying the $$ crunchers with paperwork and data is the best tactic because they like numbers and can't argue with them. (which is kinda funny if you think about it)

Quote:
Originally Posted by janeisabelle View Post
And he does see the OT and she said he does have a sensory disorder but that she cannot diagnose? We have been brushing and doing other sensory things and so has the school.
This is true. Legally, employees of school districts are not allowed to medically diagnose children -- even those with licenses to do so. They could in a private practice setting, but not in an educational one. They can make recommendations, though. (which she did, so yay OT! ) Since she feels he does have a sensory integration disorder, I would ask her for the recommendation of a private OT so that you can get a 2nd medically diagnosed opinion to present to the school. Every bit of documentation helps when districts are being a PITA.

Quote:
The school says they don't feel he is EI, and the volunteer advocate said not to push for it as it could be a stigma in the future when his behavior is better [if it is and I am working so hard toward that]. As far as Otherwise Health Impaired, that is what they labeled him for the 504 but they said he doesn't qualify for an IEP, only a 504. The principal also said that ADHD does not account for hitting and kicking.
I am again concerned about this volunteer advocate's advice. An IEP code is not a stigma. It's a tool to get our kids the help they need and to make the district pay for it. Her advice to not accept a code of some sort seems very odd to me. The code (and in this case emotionally disabled could be an appropriate fit for the purposes of getting enough services) is how an IEP gets filed with the state to get $$$ to support a child's needs. And if/when our kids no longer need an IEP, the code is removed and they graduate with a 'typical student' file/degree (actually just had this discussion w/ sped people recently).

Quote:
Originally Posted by kavamamakava View Post
My son had an IEP without a diagnosis. We started with demonstrated need for an SLP for articulation (but it was only because he was missing 6 teeth at once) and then switched the IEP to EBD when his behavior was a challenge in the classroom. It wasn't until 2 1/2 yrs into his school years that I got a diagnosis for him.
This used to be true for me, too. The team that works with my kids has always been awesome, but now their hands are more and more tightly tied by the District. Unfortunately, at least in my state, School Districts are attempting to cut costs and reduce staffing needs in the face of budget cuts by 'graduating' IEP students. IEPs are now even harder to get (and harder to renew) without a diagnosis. Obviously it's a completely incorrect way for districts to handle it and also an illogical one. As we all know, they get FUNDS for coded IEP children! So, we parents who already have to work harder every year to get our kids what they need to begin with, now have to fight budget cuts. UGH. It is exhausting!

Without going completely offtopic, this was DD#1's three-year evaluation year and because she was 'so smart' they wanted to discharge her completely versus fading out services (which I would have been OK with since things have changed a lot). Only because I know my stuff and had a binder 3 inches thick of her records to counter them with (and people 'in the know' as to the background stuff) did I get what I wanted, which was what C needed. So yay! But man. So. Much. Work.
post #51 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by kavamamakava View Post
The school is to blame because they are not allowed to just give up and refuse to educate a child with special needs. Period. End of Story. It's illegal.
I don't think that this is completely true. If he has no plan that justifies his behavior then they can legally kick him out for any violent behavior, and especially for prolonged violence that isn't helped by having a one on one aide. I believe the school is obligated to find another way to educate him if he has a IEP or 504 that includes a diagnosis for an emotional disorder. I don't know that his ADHD plan would cover this violence though. If it does cover violence then they can still kick him out if they have enough documentation of interventions and his continued inability to safely be in a mainstream classroom to back that decision up. They may legally have to provide the option of having a teacher come to the home periodically or putting him in a special education only classroom before they do that, but it sounds like they have given him a lot of support and tried a lot of interventions and are going to be very justified in what they do. Because he has a one on one aid already, I think they are probably going to be able to stop allowing him access to mainstreamed education. There may be a support group for people with kids on an IEP in your area that you can contact to help you navigate the legal aspect of this.
post #52 of 97
I have not read all the other posts, but skimmed most of them.

1. get yourself an advocate (check in your intermediate district. spec ed local support chaperts, etc)

2. How long ago was his last evaluation? You can request a new one every year, start that if you can. IN writing request a classroom observation. IN writing present a list of 'explusions/suspensions/etc.'

3. Keep a journal of behaviors and frequencies. This will help support the fact he needs an IEP.

4.Legally, the school can put him on 'homebound' if his behavior is violent (a teacher comes to your house for a set of time each week. But you can also fight this.

5. YES IEPs are for ALL disabilities. The violent behaviors would be classified at Emotional or Behavioral Impairments/disabilities and WOULD qualify him for an IEP. ADHD could qualify for a 504 or an IEP- depending on how it affects his education. A child can have a co-diagnosis of both ADHD and behavioral disorders. It is not one or the other.

6. You can have a Behavior plan on an IEP or a 504--- you need a plan in place for both his safety and the safety of students/teacher.

7. Can you get an outside evaluation? Many community programs will do it on a sliding scale/free or if your insurance (if you have it) will cover part or all the cost.

8. HAve you talked to his Dr---they can provide a written statement for his outbursts and that he is under medical care.

I would insist on a reevaluation and/or reassessment that is more inline with 'daily' behaviors instead of a single visit one on one with the assessor.

His classroom teacher should be advocating for him to be in a more appropriate placement/one on one aide with a behavior plan.

The schools do have a responsibility to protect the teachers/other students, BUT that is what Behavioral/Emotional diagnosis help---to allow Spec.Ed teachers assist or teach children that may not do well in a traditional classroom for safety or other issues. Then a child with behavior struggles get to stay in school and other children stay safe.

Can you get the school social worker worked into his 504? She could work on social skills and help him work on coping skills.

IEPs are reevaled every 3 years, if he no longer qualifies---great. A placement with a behavioral diagnosis will not 'long term' be a problem later and could help him NOW. If he still struggles in 3 years they could continue the IEP or if improvements are great--the IEP could be discontinued.
post #53 of 97
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post #54 of 97
I just wanted to give you hugs and compliment OP and all the other parent's here that work so hard to get the IEP's and all the other benefits your children need and deserve at school! Just reading this thread has given me a headache, the maze of all this! I struggle with my own son, and have been thinking about using the Special Ed Dept at our school district (we homeschool) and this thread makes me feel like we are standing on the edge of a cliff!
I applaud all of you- for being so strong. OP I hope you get the help your son needs, and soon!
post #55 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by janeisabelle View Post
Doing stuff with food has always sounded very hard to me. He and I are both picky eaters to begin with, and it seems overwhelming to do special diets. I am going to get in touch with his doctors and discuss it though.

Dd1 (now 15) was extremely picky, but we had to do an elimination diet anyway. Once we found her issues and completely eliminated them, her pickiness diminished greatly. Food no longer hurt, food no longer made her feel like crap. She's not a great eater now, but she's thousands times better than she was before we did the elimination diet.
post #56 of 97
: that a new evaluation gets good strategies for your ds and that you guys have an easy time with diet changes and they work ASAP!


This really proves that hitting people doesn't work. If hitting worked, the teachers would've insisted on a better evaluation already.
post #57 of 97
I am sorry that you are going through this and I hope that you can find some help and support here
post #58 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by yarngoddess View Post
Just reading this thread has given me a headache, the maze of all this!
The school my kids' attend is wonderful. Going through the process this year was difficult because none of us knew what would work for her, but I never
felt like the school was being difficult to work with.

One of the hardest things was accepting the various lables that my DD has. It's hard to look at some things in black and white and all official.

My advice to anyone working with a school on these issues is to communicate in writing and back up everything possible with experts. I've had my DD's doctor and therapist write letters to the school -- not because I'm confrontational, but just to create an official paper trail. Some parents make this far more difficult for their child by trying to avoid a paper trail or labels.
post #59 of 97
Regarding the "ADHD not accounting for the hitting and kicking"--- Russell Barclay's book completely explains how the anger is connected with ADHD. The same chemicals that allow for impulsivity are at work in terms of not helping the child self-regulate; therefore the anger turns into impulse and gets expressed.

I love the Explosive Child but Russell Barclay has a better explanation of the interplay between ADHD and anger.
post #60 of 97
This is the book I am referring to:

http://www.russellbarkley.org/barkley-books.php?id=7
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