8 yo STILL won't fall asleep on own or STTN - Page 2

[morgainesmama]

My 8yo has needed more touchpoints lately, too, with nighttime parenting. He likes to be in my bed, or my room, or at least have me in my bedroom near his when he's in bed.

I'm 8mo pregnant and worried about cosleeping when baby comes, so I've just let the boys make nests on the floor when they want to sleep upstairs. That way, their beds are still more comfortable, but they can have the closeness they crave if they choose it.

Also, my 6yo stopped sleeping in our room as often when I hung a wrap in his bunkbed for a hammock. He likes sleeping in it -- whether it's the novelty of it, or the feeling of embrace, he really likes it. You might consider whether a hammock with a blanket that smells like mama would give your son a bit more security at night. Also maybe doing some special ceremonial stuff in his room -- making a dreamcatcher or mobile, for instance, might help.

That said, meeting his needs now will be much easier than leaving them unmet until he's older, so it's wonderful you're thinking so compassionately about how to meet your needs and his at the same time!

[Graceoc]

Does he like to read? Would he be ok reading for awhile until he was really tired and then having you come in? We let our DD who is 8 just stay up and read until she is ready to fall asleep. What about listening to books on tape or relaxation tapes?

[vbactivist]

Originally Posted by mamabohl

we had considered it for other issues (we think he might have tourettes plus...some other behaviour stuff), but hadn't though about adding the sleep thing to that list. I will definitely add it on when I talk to the doc. Thanks for the ideas, sorry if it seemed like i shot you down, lol.

I just want to throw out there the idea that maybe it's just that he's a bad sleeper. I mean, it may not be your fault

I am a terrible sleeper. I have a very hard time falling asleep and if I get woken (which I do because I have my own co-sleepers) then I have a really terrible time getting back to sleep. THe difference is, I'm an adult and can manage my own night waking independently. Would you consider just lettign him stay up in his room until he falls asleep naturally. Say something like, I know you have a hard time falling asleep/aren't tired. BNut you can stay up as long as you are quiet and in bed? Can your son read? My older two have small bedside lamps thtey can (usually) have on as late as they want if they are reading.

The other thing is, (and I just posted this on another thread) do whatever you have to to get through each night. If it will make your life easier in *that moment (for those 4 months) then let your son sleep in the big bed while your husband is in Guam. It doesn't sound like he'll be "cured" before then anyhow, so really how far back is square one?

Hang in there - sleep issues stink

[vbactivist]

Originally Posted by laohaire

I think this is not accurate and also not phrased helpfully to the OP.

You can't know that CIO is the cause. You could have said "I think you're right about the cause" or "You might be right about the cause" - but to say "You are right about the cause" is just not possible to really say.

I am completely against CIO but for the record, it CAN cause sleep issues and such. Maybe it even OFTEN causes it. You phrased it that it DOES cause it. Not accurate.

The OP's son MAY have been impacted by CIO, but he may also have high anxiety by personality, or perhaps even something else underlying. I simply can't imagine being this caring mama who obviously is concerned for her son (and clearly expending effort to meet his needs), to come on here and be told that she 100% caused insomnia and/or a stress-related disease in her son.

I mentioned that my kiddo is 4.5 and does the same things, she has to have an adult lay down with her, and if no-one is with her she will wake up and find someone. I also granted that 4.5 (almost 5, actually) and 8 aren't exactly the same - yet I don't think DD is exactly on the cusp of sleeping alone in the near future. My DD has never CIO'd one night in her life and coslept the whole time. The OP's son may be just a variation of normal.

I agree with all this. I know lots of 100% attachment parented kids who are really crappy sleepers - even at 8.

[mamabohl]

Thank you all for all the replies! I am sorry I didn't get back to this until now, I don't go online much on the weekends. I apreciate all the comforting words, ideas, commiseration, etc. No one has hurt my feelings, i understand that I have made (and will make, lol) many mistakes as a parent and also that I am not all-powerful and did not make my child who he is.

My husband is not a good sleeper either, he sometimes can't fall asleep (and has to read to sleep every night), and often doesn't sleep well, waking in the middle of the night or too early. So some of this is maybe genetic.

Right now we're kind of just waiting, my husband leaves in 10 days so i don't want to satrt anything new right now. I'm compiling ideas. I picked up a book from the library called Freeing Your Child From Anxiety that looks like it might have some ideas. I also asked Trevor if he had any ideas of what might help him and he suggested reading to sleep. We'll give that a try, I'm hoping having a light on so Trevor can read won't keep Isaiah up though.

in some ways i think it will be easier once dh is gone, because i start to get really stressed if I'm in the bedroom too long right now. Dh and i like to spend a little time together each night and if i take too long putting the kids to bed then we don't have time together and dh gets all annoyed and starts talking (again) about how "we need to put a stop to this." He is not very tolerant of Trevor's needing to be parented to sleep.

[mamabohl]

Originally Posted by vbactivist

I am a terrible sleeper. I have a very hard time falling asleep and if I get woken (which I do because I have my own co-sleepers) then I have a really terrible time getting back to sleep. THe difference is, I'm an adult and can manage my own night waking independently. Would you consider just lettign him stay up in his room until he falls asleep naturally. Say something like, I know you have a hard time falling asleep/aren't tired. BNut you can stay up as long as you are quiet and in bed? Can your son read? My older two have small bedside lamps thtey can (usually) have on as late as they want if they are reading.

The other thing is, (and I just posted this on another thread) do whatever you have to to get through each night. If it will make your life easier in *that moment (for those 4 months) then let your son sleep in the big bed while your husband is in Guam. It doesn't sound like he'll be "cured" before then anyhow, so really how far back is square one?

Hang in there - sleep issues stink

those are good points - thank you! I would be fine with him staying up in his room, but he doesn't like being in there alone. The only reason we have a "bedtime" is because he needs to be parented to sleep, he knows that he can stay up as late as he wants if he does it by himself so I don't have to stay up too late (I'm an early-to-bedder and he has the makings of a night owl), but when we've tried it before he gets too scared and gets me. It's been over a year since we tried that last though, and he can read well now and loves reading, so we're going to give it another go.

[mamabohl]

Originally Posted by Graceoc

Does he like to read? Would he be ok reading for awhile until he was really tired and then having you come in? We let our DD who is 8 just stay up and read until she is ready to fall asleep. What about listening to books on tape or relaxation tapes?

he just told me he'd like to try reading to sleep. the books on tape & relaxation tapes are a good idea too, we put a boom box in their room for listening to books on cd so it'd be fairly easy to try.

[mamabohl]

Originally Posted by morgainesmama

I'm 8mo pregnant and worried about cosleeping when baby comes, so I've just let the boys make nests on the floor when they want to sleep upstairs. That way, their beds are still more comfortable, but they can have the closeness they crave if they choose it.

Also, my 6yo stopped sleeping in our room as often when I hung a wrap in his bunkbed for a hammock. He likes sleeping in it -- whether it's the novelty of it, or the feeling of embrace, he really likes it. You might consider whether a hammock with a blanket that smells like mama would give your son a bit more security at night. Also maybe doing some special ceremonial stuff in his room -- making a dreamcatcher or mobile, for instance, might help.

That said, meeting his needs now will be much easier than leaving them unmet until he's older, so it's wonderful you're thinking so compassionately about how to meet your needs and his at the same time!

Creative ideas, thanks! I will look into trying some of those.

Yeah, i really want to help him learn how to get to sleep and stay asleep on his own because eventually he will need to be able to. He may get married or live with someone when he's an adult, but he will also most likely be single at some point in his life and need to know how to sleep by himself.

[karika]

I think it is normal for humans to sleep together. If we have issues about it as adults, it is because we were left alone to sleep as infants and children. If it is possible, the best thing is to allow Trevor into your bed without any expectations of him leaving. The next thing would be his bed pushed up to yours like a sidecar, so you can maintain a physical contact with him. Our 6 (almost 7) yo still cosleeps and shows no sign of going to her own bed. We got her a spongebob bed when she turned 6 because she said she wanted to sleep alone. she tried it for a few nights and is now firmly back cosleeping. When dd2 was small, I had to have dd1 lie across the bottom of the bed because I was too nervous about her flinging her arms like she does and hurting the baby while sleeping. My mattress is on the floor, and I surround it with pillows in case anyone rolls off. You can make a giant king size (if you have room) by putting a twin up against a queen and sleeping sideways on it. If dh isn't into the idea, make a family bed for you and the kids and visit him when you can...

[mamabohl]

Originally Posted by savyjoel

So, I said all that to say--my 11yr old still sleeps with me/us but she will fall asleep on her own--not sure when she will outgrow this but for now it works. Maybe your dh can sleep somewhere else for a while--if he does not object. I figure they will be grown and gone real soon. Good luck and God bless.

that sounds like a nice set-up. My dh would definitely not be cool we sleeping by himself like that though.

[mamabohl]

Originally Posted by leigh09

just sending you some sympathy. i am related to a woman (who is now in her 70's) who is a terrible sleeper, and always has been since infancy. she spent a lot of her childhood cosleeping with her parents and much of her adulthood up during the night just reading a book.

my first child is a great sleeper, started sttn at 9 months, is currently 4 and goes to sleep in his own bed and in his own room. my second child was a DISASTER for her first two years! we expected her to follow the suit of ds, but not so. she was constantly up, several times at night.

my aunt's story helped me and dh look at dd's sleeping as not just a problem to be fixed, but as her sleep temperament that we need to manage and somehow work it out so that we can all feel rested in the morning.

i am also up during the night with a baby and have three children to look after during the day. i honestly can't be up with dd all night when she is not sleeping well. some things that worked for us are to put a sleeping bag on the floor of our room and let her sleep there. (our baby is cosleeping with us. dd is a restless sleeper and not safe to have in bed with a baby.) after an assessment from our naturopath, we have made some changes to her diet. the main change is that we also have eliminated food colourings from her diet which made an unbelievable change in her sleep patterns and behaviour - she is significantly calmer. there is a noticeable difference in her (ie tantrums, restlessness, and quality of sleep) after she has spent a weekend at grandma's vs. her regular routine at home.

i am wondering since your child is much older than mine, if you could help him work through some ways to help him get through the night on his own? maybe don't expect him to sleep, tell him it's totally fine if he doesn't want to. but YOU do need to sleep. perhaps some options to turn his light on, read or play something quietly in his room if he likes until he is ready to sleep again. or if he needs security, he is welcome to pull up a sleeping bag in your room, but please don't wake you - you're tired and really need the rest. if it was me, i would enforce it over the next days. i don't know your son, but suggest an activity he enjoys doing but you could only do it if he let you sleep because then you have the energy for it. if you didn't get your sleep (because of him waking you, not your other children), you can't do whatever it was because you need to catch up on your rest.

thank you for your input, it's good to remember that all people don't sleep the same way & my child isn't the only one out there who has trouble sleeping. I like your ideas, that's especially interesting about the food coloring. My husband is really skeptical of foods causing behavioural issues, while he's gone would be a good time to experiment with that.

[mamabohl]

Originally Posted by Ellien C

One thing someone told me to try was to go through the routine and then make an excuse to leave briefly - "I'm going to brush my teeth now. I will come base when I'm done and if you're still awake, I will rub your back." This sets the stage for falling asleep on their own but lets them know you'll be back.

We do this. I will leave to lay the baby down once she's asleep, or to get dh's lunch ready or the coffee pot set up or go pee, etc. He definitely handles it better than he did a year ago, so there is some tiny progress, lol.

[mamabohl]

Originally Posted by bnhmama

Right now we've got him to the point where he will lay down in his room, alone and go to sleep but it was a HUGE struggle to get there and most nights he ends up in bed with me in the middle of the night. (Hubby works overnights and is gone five nights a week.) Also, we have to have a hall light on, a small christmas tree lit up in his room and a cd playing in order for him to go to bed. We always have some sort of elaborate before bed routine that changes from time to time. Right now it's brush teeth and then "cuddle time" for anywhere from 15-30 minutes. (And for him, cuddling means he plays his ds, watches a quiet show, reads a book or draws or whatever while I sit and do nothing and go nowhere. I try to use this time to engage him in a nice conversation about his day, things he liked, etc, so I don't die of boredom.) It used to be one on one game time. Before that it was book time. I deal with this. My current frustration is his trying to come up with a new reason every. single. night. not to go to bed and trying to exploit my emotions to delay bedtime. I don't know what's wrong and have never been able to find anyone who can offer and possible reasons or ideas. We just keep working with him and I guess I've just accepted that's who he is.

thank you! your input was very helpful. I don't want to say that I like reading that it's stressing you out too, lol, but it's nice to know that someone else isn't happy with this situation. We, too, have a set before bed routine (jammies and toothbrushing, I read a couple chapters to them, then sing a couple songs, then we turn out the lights and sometimes chat a bit still.) and they have a night light and a fan for white noise. Getting him to fall asleep on his own is the biggest deal to me, I don't mind him coming to my bed (or my room) as much.

[mamabohl]

Originally Posted by midnightwriter

DD is very much like this. I got her a a relaxation/ meditation tape and she says it helps her fall asleep. She loves it!

If you listen to the sample, it stars in a creepy way ("hello, my name is Greg and I want to be your friend" ) but the rest is absolutely lovely, and you can skip this intro later. But DD loves the whole thing, including calming music at the end.

thanks! we will try that!

[a-sorta-fairytale]

I have a 6 year old, a 2 year old and am due in 8 weeks. I can BET money that if someone is going to wake me up it will be the 6 year old and NOT the nursing 2 year old.

This year she was in kindy and luckily her school is the only one in our city to still allow half day k if the kids need it. She did half day k and was so tired after just the 4 hours she needed a 1-3 hour nap on school days.

I realized not only was *I* getting stressed out being woken up when i dont get enough sleep pregnant as it is but she is also just not rested.

She is starting counseling on wednesday and i am hoping the lady will do some EMDR with her and maybe that will help. She also has an apt with a sleep clinic next week. There is no way she can do full day first grade with her sleep issues.

I have to think at least with my dd it is something not quiet right with her wiring or something because she most the time doesnt even fully wake and will sleep walk, sleep talk and if she climbs in our bed most of the time she doesnt remember.

It is so frustrating and something has to give for us before the newbie is here as i cannot have 5 of us in the bed (6ft4 dh, me, newbie, 2y/o and 6yo)

[Juvysen]

Originally Posted by mamabohl

we had considered it for other issues (we think he might have tourettes plus...some other behaviour stuff), but hadn't though about adding the sleep thing to that list. I will definitely add it on when I talk to the doc. Thanks for the ideas, sorry if it seemed like i shot you down, lol.

Have you looked into food sensitivities for him? Seems like with behavior stuff AND poor sleep, it's possible that it's a food sensitivity.

[mistymama]

I wanted to add that some people are just bad sleepers - has nothing to do with CIO. I know, because I'm one. My parents talk about how I never slept as a baby (at least not as much as they would have like me to!!). They were told to CIO, but my Mom couldn't stand it. I'm STILL a horrible sleeper - just last night I woke up at 2:50am having to pee and I've been up ever since. I tried about 45mins ago to take a nap (I'm exhausted) and couldn't fall asleep. I simply have a HARD time sleeping - and yes, it helps very much to have a loved one nearby. If dh is out of town I sleep with ds .. I hate to sleep alone and it makes my insomnia worse.

Just wanted to share that so you know it's not all your fault - you can't turn back the clock on the CIO, but you also don't know that's the cause by any means.

My almost 7.5 year old would happily sleep with me every night if he could. I let him do it when dh is out of town or when we have guests that use his room. He LOVES it. He's a great sleeper and has been in his own bed, own room since he was 2.5 years old.. but I think it's human nature to not want to sleep alone. I certainly understand it myself!

You've gotten some great suggestions here. And since your son is 8, I would actively involve him in the process. Get him to help you prepare a calming bedtime routine that sounds good to him (to this day we still do a nightly bath for my kiddo - it helps relax him). He might want to read in bed until he feels sleepy, etc. And if all else fails, I would let him build a "nest" in the floor of your room and sleep near you. I'm pretty sure he will not be doing that in a few years as a teen, and if all else fails, he might need to sleep closer to you for a few more years.