Is it my job to keep him "in the loop"?

[darien]

My dc and I moved out less than 3 months ago, so I'm still feeling my way in my new "relationship" with stbx.

Even when we all lived together, stbx was absent from 90% of our family's and the dc's activities. Since we separated, stbx has, by his own choice, seen the dc only for dinner at his place once a week, plus every other weekend. Until this week, he didn't have a car, so I was doing all the driving.

He has not asked for a single "extra" moment of time with the dc, nor has he called them, even once.

Next week, both the dc are graduating (from preschool and middle school ). Both are having graduation ceremonies. Stbx doesn't even know. I suppose I should be a good person and let him know, even though he probably won't come, and if he does, it will just be to look good!

So, this brings me to my question-- as the cp, am I required/expected to keep stbx updated on the dc's activities and events?

[corysmilk]

I did, with my first 2. only because I was in a place where I wanted to be able to tell my children I never kept their fathers from them.

But that was in the begining. I don't anymore ds, 16 lives with his dad. dd 12, I feel is old enough to call herself if she wants dad there for anything, I do mention it like " oh do you want to call your dad to let him know" but it rarley happens and he sometimes phones her, but not really. I know I did what I could to try to foster a relationship between them and I just gave up. Its up to him!

don't know if any of that was helpful? but do whatever your comfortable with

[Auntie Sapphire]

I would say that it's your job to give him the information, and it's his job to act on it.

[Ione]

Yeah, you do have to make some effort to keep him in the loop. But that doesn't necessarily mean calling or emailing for every little thing.

What I've done is create a google calendar for DD's stuff (major events, playdates, school schedule, dr.'s appts, etc.) and gave my Ex access to it.

I just put everything in there as soon as I know about it. But it's up to him to check the calendar (or not) as and when he wants.

[SoulCakes]

Originally Posted by Ione

What I've done is create a google calendar for DD's stuff (major events, playdates, school schedule, dr.'s appts, etc.) and gave my Ex access to it.

I just put everything in there as soon as I know about it. But it's up to him to check the calendar (or not) as and when he wants.

^^^Really good idea.

I was meticulous about keeping my ex in the loop until our divorce was final. (I do still, but I was super-paranoid about something going wrong before then.) It's something to keep in mind if you think your ex might get vindictive if he finds out you didn't tell him about something.

[Phoenix~Mama]

I agree with PP who said you have to inform, but it's not up to you past that.

[timbbey]

I do soley for the sake of the kids. I send a quick e-mail ( I want proof that I sent it). They are always happy to see him show up for special events, but they have also been bitterly disappointed.

[josybear]

i email to tell him about these things, so i can prove that i told him, but don't tell the kids that he might be there. if he shows it's a huge surprise, if he doesn't they never know that he's let them down. then i document what he misses. hopefully i never need the documentation, but if i do i'd rather have it than not, you know?

[VocalMinority]

Where we live, yes, you'd be required to keep him in the loop. (Well, once you had an official court order that made reference to the state guidelines, you would be.) Morally, I think you are, regardless.

I understand your frustration. Why should you have to go out of your way to communicate with someone you'd rather have little or nothing to do with, when he doesn't show up for things anyway - or when he does, it seems like he's only trying to look like an involved parent, making you wish you could announce over a loudspeaker, "Mr. Involved wouldn't be here if I didn't tell him about it and shame him into coming! Please don't compliment him on what a great Dad he is!" I get it.

Bottom line:

#1 - If you spend more time with the kids, you're in a better position than he is to know what's going on. Most of the fliers, report cards, etc. from school probably go to you. When people from school or activities call with special reminders, or to plan something, it's probably you that they call. Certainly, if he cared enough, he could look up the important stuff. But - whatever the reason - you are in the loop and he's not.

#2 - If you make reasonable efforts to keep him informed, no one can say his failure to be involved is your fault. When your kids grow up and resent him for not being around, they will never be able to accuse you of causing it. He won't be able to blame you, telling people you kept things from him because you didn't want him around the kids. Someday, if he goes off the deep end - or remarries - or gets sick of paying child support and he fights for custody of the kids, the judge/mediator/custody evaluator will not be able to say that you pose roadblocks to his parenting, by not telling him about the kids' activities.

#3 - If you're like most divorced people, there's a little part of you that's relieved when he doesn't come to things, because you can enjoy the event and your kids without any speck of unpleasantness because he's there. And although that sentiment is perfectly natural, it's not a good thing to act on.

[Ceinwen]

Originally Posted by josybear

i email to tell him about these things, so i can prove that i told him, but don't tell the kids that he might be there. if he shows it's a huge surprise, if he doesn't they never know that he's let them down. then i document what he misses. hopefully i never need the documentation, but if i do i'd rather have it than not, you know?

I never mention it to my kids - just in case. Ex is relatively flighty, and extremely prone to last minute changes to plans.

Originally Posted by Ione

Yeah, you do have to make some effort to keep him in the loop. But that doesn't necessarily mean calling or emailing for every little thing.

What I've done is create a google calendar for DD's stuff (major events, playdates, school schedule, dr.'s appts, etc.) and gave my Ex access to it.

I just put everything in there as soon as I know about it. But it's up to him to check the calendar (or not) as and when he wants.

We do the same thing. For us, I would rather (for my kids) my ex be involved and present in their activites.

Originally Posted by Jeannine

Where we live, yes, you'd be required to keep him in the loop. (Well, once you had an official court order that made reference to the state guidelines, you would be.) Morally, I think you are, regardless.

I've never heard of the courts forcing any CP to communicate events, etc. with the NCP. Areas included in joint legal custody, yes. Recreational stuff - no.

I know that the NCP has the right to be on school mailing lists, etc. but I really have a hard time imagining that the would be forced to inform of scouts meetings, dance recitals, play dates, etc. That's potentially none of their business, kwim?

In a perfect world it would be nice if every separated couple communicated well enough for this to occur, but I'd be damned if I was forced to tell my ex anything. He's perfectly capable of finding out on his own.

For example - doctor's appointments, yes. Since we share joint legal (including medical, education, religion) I would be required to inform him. Dance recital that came from lessons I paid for and drove dd to all year - not required. Anything school related NCP can easily find out on their own - by being involved, calling, or asking to be on the mailing list.

So, there's a fine line in what's mandatory and what would be polite. We happen to have such a relationship that I keep him abreast of these things - but if we hated each other and had a volatile relationship, I would not be going out of my way to tell him about activities that I planned and paid for.

[Marsupialmom]

Don't tell your kids that he knows. That can cause more heart ache when they are young and get their hearts set on something.

I would do Google calendar or/and emails for reasons. It keeps you current, gives kids reference, and he can't say he didn't know. This, if nothing else, makes you look good.

[blessedwithboys]

i am required to give notice of all school and medical events. i dont usually bother though. and he doesnt ask. i remember a few yrs ago ex failed to pay cs all summer and when the time came to pay for ds's school uniforms i had to work overtime for 2 wks to pay for them. xh was a total UAV about money at that point, so when he called to ask if he could come over and ride with us to school for the 1st day of kindy i told him to bite me. he said he would he just show up at school, which he did, an hour late! he actually had ds pulled from class on the first frickin day of K so he could hug and him and say he loved him and was proud, blah blah blah. what a joke! that is the LAST TIME he has ever step foot in school. i told him i wanted help meeting our volunteer hr requirement but he is always too busy to help, so now, i hand him a huge pile of papers every friday after i've taken out wha ti want to keep for ds's memory box and he can call the school if he wants to know whats going on.

[Goodmom2008]

I would. How is the kids' father supposed to know about the activities if he isn't informed about them? And even if he does show up just to look good, it will be good for the kids. I tell my ex about all of the activities, like the play, belt testing, spring concert, etc......and he shows up. But then he usually does. He doesn't come to all of my son's soccer games anymore, but he does take him on his week-ends.

When my ex was working every week-end, it really did upset my son that Daddy couldn't make it to his games. So having the other parent there does have a positive impact on the kids.

[sparklefairy]

I usually don't. He used to mock me for "telling him what to do" when I did. He lives right down the street from the kids' school -- which does duplicate newsletters for two-home families as well as sending the newsletters via email. Earlier this year, I mentioned a school thing and his response was "You know I'm not 'into' things like that."

[VocalMinority]

Originally Posted by Ceinwen

I've never heard of the courts forcing any CP to communicate events, etc. with the NCP. Areas included in joint legal custody, yes. Recreational stuff - no.

I know that the NCP has the right to be on school mailing lists, etc. but I really have a hard time imagining that the would be forced to inform of scouts meetings, dance recitals, play dates, etc. That's potentially none of their business, kwim?

Honestly no, I don't know what you mean. If you were married, would you feel like a daughter's dance recital was "none of her father's business"? Well, if you're divorced, he's still her father. The only situation in which I imagine a kid's activities "not being the business" of one parent is if that parent is legitimately abusive and dangerous, in which case obviously there's recourse for that, through the courts.

My husband's ex definitely felt that if she signed up their son for soccer, Cub Scouts - or kindergarten! - that was her territory and my husband should not be allowed to "stalk" her, by ever coming to those places/events. And when my husband signed up their son for things, she would not take him, on her weekends. That's the extreme, but such an attitude clearly is not focused on what's best for the child.

Yes, our state Parenting Time Guidelines are pretty clear and specific about the parents' responsibility to "promptly" inform each other about the kids' activities; the fact that it's best for kids when both parents can participate in everything; that the visitation schedule should not affect which activities the kids can participate in or which parent can attend, etc.

[Ceinwen]

Originally Posted by Jeannine

Honestly no, I don't know what you mean. If you were married, would you feel like a daughter's dance recital was "none of her father's business"? Well, if you're divorced, he's still her father. The only situation in which I imagine a kid's activities "not being the business" of one parent is if that parent is legitimately abusive and dangerous, in which case obviously there's recourse for that, through the courts.

I'm super glad I don't live in your state then. And super glad that our separation agreement is more specific in that my parenting time is mine - clearly defined, and his is his.

If he chooses to show up at school functions, dance recitals, etc. that's his choice. As I stated before, our relationship functions as such that he is informed of said events. However, I really, really maintain that if I am doing an activity with my child during MY parenting time - he's not necessarily invited. Especially if I scheduled and paid for it.

Also, if my ex were to sign up my daughter for something on his parenting time, and paid for it - no, I would not imagine it would be any of my business or concern - barring if it was dangerous or illegal.

Further to that - I specifically signed my dd up for weekday classes so that my ex wouldn't have to worry about taking her to classes EOW. He would have the same courtesy for me.

I this attitude of 'if it involves my child I'll be there for every second of every event no matter who else is there' to be absolutely bizarre. Are parents not allowed to have special occasions and activities with their children?

There were many times I did things with only one parent - and my parents have (and are) married for 30+ years. What's wrong with that? I have no problem with my ex having just special activities for him and our girls, and vice versa.

[VocalMinority]

Originally Posted by Ceinwen

I'm super glad I don't live in your state then.

Yes, it sure sounds like we're each in the right place!

Originally Posted by Ceinwen

There were many times I did things with only one parent - and my parents have (and are) married for 30+ years. What's wrong with that? I have no problem with my ex having just special activities for him and our girls, and vice versa.

And that's fine, of course. And if that works for you and your ex, then clearly - it works! And I didn't mean both parents need to come to every playdate, or trip to the playground, or make-it-take-it art class. Sure, divorced parents should be able to enjoy their kids, without extending an invitation to the other parent every time they leave the house.

But as far as bigger things - dance recitals, soccer games, awards ceremonies, Scouting events... I see a difference between Dad exercising the option not to attend, because Mom's going to be there anyway and the particular activity is a bigger deal for her and the kid than it is for him... and Dad not being invited - and the kid feeling uncomfortable saying she'd like Dad there - because Mom paid for the activity.

Again, every family's different. It sounds like we've each figured out what works, for our own.

[2xy]

Originally Posted by Auntie Sapphire

I would say that it's your job to give him the information, and it's his job to act on it.

Yup. I stopped babysitting my ex several years ago.

[Ceinwen]

Originally Posted by Jeannine

And that's fine, of course. And if that works for you and your ex, then clearly - it works! And I didn't mean both parents need to come to every playdate, or trip to the playground, or make-it-take-it art class. Sure, divorced parents should be able to enjoy their kids, without extending an invitation to the other parent every time they leave the house.

But as far as bigger things - dance recitals, soccer games, awards ceremonies, Scouting events... I see a difference between Dad exercising the option not to attend, because Mom's going to be there anyway and the particular activity is a bigger deal for her and the kid than it is for him... and Dad not being invited - and the kid feeling uncomfortable saying she'd like Dad there - because Mom paid for the activity.

It sounds like we actually agree, when it comes to the main point of it.

Dance recitals and big games, school events - I do believe each parent has a right to be there, and should have an invitation extended. I was getting twitchy when thinking of more minor things like play dates, park outings, etc. and the idea of having to extend an invite for every little thing.

I realize I come across as a hard ass, but all truth be told, my ex and I do have a very amicable arrangement for our kids (for ex - he just came and took the girls for a few hours today on my weekend, because he missed them and wanted to see them - we're very flexible)

I think I get defensive when I hear words like 'must' and 'have to' with regards to certain issues. Sometimes it seems like the 'must' and 'have to' things apply to the CP, while the NCP gets a free card on some of the issues.

Especially with regard to things like ROFR. My ex tried to give me a really hard time initially when I would leave the girls with my live-in partner when I worked night shift. I literally leave at bed time and am home when they first wake up.

We had to work through a lot of issues to decide what was best for the kids, best for us, best for our support system. For our kids - it was best that they stay here, in their primary residence overnight while I'm working. It's also best for them to go and spend time with their grandparents - his parents and mine. So both of us learned not to be jerks when it came to the details.

[Bad Mama Jama]

I don't. But then again, the other party is dead to us, like in the mafia sense. I do not have any interest in contacting him and he seems to have no interest in my dd. So there you have it. If the other party could care less, it is not my duty to make him see the error of his ways. I also hear nothing from that entire side of her existence, so I don't sweat it. It is their loss if they are not even concerned about whether she is alive, let alone eating properly. But every situation is so different.