How can mamas be AP & do CIO? Vent

[Louisep]

I'm pretty passionate about not using CIO after all our sleep trials and tribulations. I became an AP mama after following my high needs DS's lead which involves substantial nighttime parenting. I know AP means different things to different people but isn't being anti-CIO fundamental? There's this group of mothers I know who say they are AP because they breastfed (not always to one year and not much beyond) and babywear but they have all done some form of CIO.

Can you be AP and allow CIO? I don't think so and it irks me no end that they claim they are AP.

Thanks for the vent

[chely7425]

I think people have some different definitions of CIO... though in most forms it does seem at odds with AP. With our DS1 we did have some fussing before bed, not screaming or crying, but him throwing a fit because he didn't want to go to sleep!! Like, we would lay him down and he would fuss and we would go back in and he would say hi mommy, play now!! So yeah... plus both my kids will NOT sleep with us in the room, they like their space. But no, no real CIO around here. We always go to them when they fuss and they know we are here. When they need us they just call

[2lilsweetfoxes]

I had a whole post and then my phone dropped the webs. Been doing that a pst lately, but I digress.

What do you think when you hear CIO? Baby left to scream for hours no matter what? What is their definition of CIO? My baby will not drift off peacefully being rocked sucking on her bottle. She needs to be tucked into her crib and she protests for maybe 5 minutes, then she's conked. If she is disturbed, she thinks it is playtime. If she is revving up or does not stop after 5 minutes, I see if there is a fixable problem (she threw her paci out of the crib) and if not, I get her up and try again later.

Honestly, I had thought she was "high needs", but one evening I had to put her down to deal with her brother and by the time I was done with him, she was fast asleep. Tried it again the next night and same thing. Bedtime "routine" went from 3 hours and about to scream to 45 minutes and all getting to bed at a decent time (45 minutes is bath, diaper change and jammies, a snack of yogurt and fruit, bottle of milk, rocking a bit while drinking the milk, then tuck in and asleep within 5 minutes. I have 2 other children, a dog and a cat I'm wrangling during that time, too, though 1 child is pretty self-sufficient.). If she wakes in the middle of the night, I confess I try to wait a moment to see if she just falls back to sleep--or DH will get up, but I end up stumbling to her and giving her her midnight snack bottle.

ETA: Had she been my first, I would probably be one of those "just let baby CIO. It works!" moms. My older two--no way, not no how. If they were to be tucked into their cribs and left to fuss it out, they'd scream for hours. They both ended up cosleeping for years.

[Jerlin]

To me, AP means being attentive to the baby's needs. If a person is allowing her child to CIO, how is that being attentive to the baby's needs?

[rhiandmoi]

Originally Posted by Jerlin

To me, AP means being attentive to the baby's needs. If a person is allowing her child to CIO, how is that being attentive to the baby's needs?

It is about knowing your kid and what works for them. If letting them fuss a couple of minutes before they settle down works, I don't see how that is not AP.

Likewise, if a toddler gets themselves into a meltdown, if a mother knows that the best way to resolve it is to let the meltdown happen for 5 minutes so the emotions can be released before trying to do anything about the original meltdown situation, how is that not AP?

But it's not like there is a membership form with some sort of strict criteria for what is or is not AP. What is the big deal if they want to call themselves AP?

[Louisep]

The mothers in question did Ferber or extended CIO every bedtime and naptime. I don't think a bit of fussing is CIO.

[praisehimau]

They aren't really AP... they are putting there needs above all other needs. I agree that everyone should have there needs met, but to me, its ignoring the baby's needs using CIO.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Jerlin]

Originally Posted by rhiandmoi

It is about knowing your kid and what works for them. If letting them fuss a couple of minutes before they settle down works, I don't see how that is not AP.

IMO, I don't think fussing equals CIO.

Originally Posted by rhiandmoi

Likewise, if a toddler gets themselves into a meltdown, if a mother knows that the best way to resolve it is to let the meltdown happen for 5 minutes so the emotions can be released before trying to do anything about the original meltdown situation, how is that not AP?

Again, I don't think a meltdown is CIO.

Originally Posted by rhiandmoi

But it's not like there is a membership form with some sort of strict criteria for what is or is not AP. What is the big deal if they want to call themselves AP?

I don't have a problem with anyone claiming to be AP. The OP asked a question, and I simply was just answering based on my own opinion.

[odoole]

Originally Posted by Louisep

The mothers in question did Ferber or extended CIO every bedtime and naptime. I don't think a bit of fussing is CIO.

I know someone who is very pro co-sleeping and AP and crunchy granola type of person -- all organic clothes and mattresses and whatnot -- but she did do CIO with her 2nd. The baby was about 10 months at the time, I think, and she did the extended crying thing for both nighttime and naps. I think she clocked in around 50 minutes of crying for both for a few days in a row.

She said she cried the entire time she did it. She's not a callous or mean person, but I guess she just decided it was what needed to happen for the good of her family. Specifically, she felt she was doing her older daughter a disservice by being tired all the time, and her younger daughter (the 10-month-old) a disservice by not allowing her good sleep while cosleeping (she was the type of baby that would spend the whole night latched on).

Anyway, she's the only like-minded person I've met so far who did CIO, though I'm sure there are more. She said it was devastating at the time, but she doesn't seem to regret it. It had the effect she wanted.

[Louisep]

Originally Posted by Jerlin

To me, AP means being attentive to the baby's needs. If a person is allowing her child to CIO, how is that being attentive to the baby's needs?

I have to agree. It's what kept me going through hourly wake ups for ten months.

I don't mean to be controversial, I honestly thought CIO was not remotely AP.

[rhiandmoi]

But the question is who gets to define what is or isn't AP?

Can you be AP if you use formula? What if you don't cosleep? What if you use time outs? What if you use a sleep schedule? What if you use a feeding schedule?

Even Dr. Sears says it is a philosophy of parenting vs a list of things to do and avoid.

[treeoflife3]

I suppose it depends on what they are doing that is called CIO. What I do with my daughter might be considered CIO to some really strict anti CIO but it is literally the only thing that will work with her and lawsie have I tried everything the past 14 months. Some nights I have no choice but to let her cry for 5-10 minutes and a couple times for 15 minutes because she fights sleep SO hard... she has since day one. Then all I could do was pace and cry with her but by the time she was around 8 months, I needed to let her cry alone for a while because sometimes she'd pass out or it would be just enough to exhaust her so she would relax and fall asleep nursing on me. While she cries, I can't do anything else but listen and feel awful, but if I don't let her cry some nights, we'd be up all night because she'd just keep trying to play even if she is falling over tired.

I really do think 'AP' and 'CIO' have some flexibility in definitions. Letting your kid cry all night and refusing to go back in til morning? That is obviously CIO, but letting your kid cry for 5-20 minutes some to most nights of the week just to get down to sleep (but still going in during nighttime wakeups) that isn't so obviously CIO. I don't feel like I'm doing CIO nor do I feel like I'm NOT being AP. I know my child's needs and sometimes her need is to wear herself out on her own for a little bit because she is THAT good at ignoring her tiredness. It kills me to do it (just like it kills me that we couldn't co sleep which I still want to cry about most days) but it isn't about me and what I want to do... its about her.