quiverfull question

[katieroo]

what is the QF view on having trouble conceiving? I want to say I would be happy with however many children that God would give me, but I have to say that I don't think I would be content if he decided I shouldn't be a mother (I know that is out of my hands, but I had to admit it)
I want to say that I am "quiverfull-minded" but doesn't that include being happy with Gods plan whether that means no children or many children?

I am currently TTC naturally with help from exercise and herbs and considering massage, yoga,and acupuncture

ETA: I also feel that if undergoing infertility treatments is done it is still up to God to decide if those will be successful. ie' I would be open to anything up to IUI but IVF is creating life and hoping it will stick. I would pursue adoption if it got to the point of a doctor recommending IVF

[Tradd]

I'm interested to see the responses to this. I know that for Catholics, IVF, surrogacy, etc., is not accepted, but things to deal medically with sources of infertility are accepted. So treatments such as surgery to remove endometrosis scar tissue, fibriods, etc. Not sure about drugs such as Clomid (S?) to induce ovulation.

[cappuccinosmom]

I want to say that I am "quiverfull-minded" but doesn't that include being happy with Gods plan whether that means no children or many children?

IMO, yes it does.

And it's no longer hypothetical for me. Last year we suffered two miscarriages, and my "baby" turned 3. Dh is out of the country, he'll visit for a week this summer but not be back permanently until next year. After the miscarriages and the many months of not concieving before and in between the miscarriages, my hope of another baby within the next year or so is just about nil.

It is hard, but it's gotten easier. We are committed to trusting God completely in this area. Basically we are just dealing with the reverse of what many other QF families deal with. For them, having stairstep kids close together may test their faith and ability to be content. For me, it's the seeming lack (from my human perspective) of children that is the toughie for me.

As to infertility treatments, to me it seems they are similar to birth control, and have a similar progression from natural--->messing with actual lives. And for all of them, at any time God can choose to override our will, though I don't believe he always does. For me, direct manipulation of infertility either to concieve or to avoid would take me away from what I hold as my QF beliefs. I don't take issue with improving the general health of my body. There are many reasons besides achieving conception to seek help with certain infertility related disorders.


Although it's hard, and it's tempting to despair, I have to remember that the value of what I believe is not dependant of it "working" for me the way I want it to.



Even if you end up using fertility treatments, I would have to say that Biblical principal leans very heavily towards children being a blessing that are to be intensely desired. You would be leaning in that direction too.

[Nikki74]

Originally Posted by katieroo

what is the QF view on having trouble conceiving? I want to say I would be happy with however many children that God would give me, but I have to say that I don't think I would be content if he decided I shouldn't be a mother (I know that is out of my hands, but I had to admit it)
I want to say that I am "quiverfull-minded" but doesn't that include being happy with Gods plan whether that means no children or many children?

Originally Posted by cappuccinosmom

IMO, yes it does.

That is my opinion also. Dh and I are QF, and while TTC our first child, we got to the point where we decided that if God decided not to give us children, it must mean that He had other plans for us which would not be possible to do if we had children. And I can honestly say that we didn't mind either way. For some people it's harder to accept this I know, but for us, we were ok with it.

For me, I see in the Bible that it says it is God who opens and closes the womb, and so I personally would not have pursued fertility treatment or IVF (personally I have ethical issues with IVF anyway)...but my belief in God being in complete control of my womb means that the logical conclusion is that either way I'll trust Him.

That's just my opinion.

[katieroo]

Thank you for your responses. at this point I an just making myself more healthy all around, not doing fertility treatments, but I think personally I would pursue them, with exception of IVF if that's what it came down to.
What other peoples(religions? groups?) beliefs are just out of curiosity.

[Katwoman]

Originally Posted by katieroo

I want to say that I am "quiverfull-minded" but doesn't that include being happy with Gods plan whether that means no children or many children?

I would say yes. I would also say, at least for me, it was just as hard coming to a place where I could honestly say I will take as many children as God wants to give me - because that could mean more than I thought I was capable of raising - as it is coming to terms with "only" getting two. I would be rolling in children right now if I could. Our natural two will be our only natural two and it's been a very hard struggle to be okay with that. I do trust God and He knows what He's doing. I'm not physically able to take care of more kids and He knows that. But for some reason it's so HARD to get out of the place where you see yourself rolling in children.

I think trusting in God and being sad that your plans don't line up with His is okay.

[lilyka]

I would say yes. BUT there is nothing wrong with wanting to be healthy and that includes your reproductive parts. Find out why you can't get pregnant and taking steps to correct things which may be blocking it is not the same as being unhappy with what God is giving you by way of children. And it is also ok to be excited about reproductive health also meaning you can get pregnant. Does that make sense.

[katieroo]

Originally Posted by lilyka

I would say yes. BUT there is nothing wrong with wanting to be healthy and that includes your reproductive parts. Find out why you can't get pregnant and taking steps to correct things which may be blocking it is not the same as being unhappy with what God is giving you by way of children. And it is also ok to be excited about reproductive health also meaning you can get pregnant. Does that make sense.

So. what you are saying is that it is ok to work on your reproductive health, no ACTIVELY trying to get pregnant but still be excited by the possibility that it could help it happen IF that was Gods will?

[KempsMama]

Not QF, but Open to Life

DH and I are Catholic, and are open to life. We use no methods of birth control. We don't try, we don't prevent. If we were infertile, we would try natural methods of increasing our chances, and if a medical condition were the cause of infertility, like PCOS or endo, we would treat the condition. But we would not use artificial means of conception (IUI, IVF, etc.) If we have a grave reason to not have further children, such as homelessness or a pregnancy would end my life, we would use NFP to avoid.

[lilyka]

Yes but I think it is ok to say "I want this to work right so i can get pregnant". I mean you want your arms to work right so you can use your arms for all the useful things arms do. Not just so you can say you have healthy arms. My point that I made so badly was that it is ok to want to have parts, all parts, that work properly and are healthy and that is really very different than "fertility treatments" that mearly work around the symptoms of ill health to reach one result.

And I am not sure all fertility treatments are equal either. I mean taking something to jumpstart your ovulation is a far cry for IVF. With each treatment you have to consider the costs and moral implications.

[lilmom]

Not to highjack your thread but QF means *not* trying, ever?

DH and I have considered ourselves to be QF since we were married 4 yrs ago and we only have one child. No birth control obviously. And so far no fertility treatments. I am pretty sure that I do not want to do fertility treatments as I am not fond of putting anything in my body unneccessarily (drugs I mean). But we ARE trying for #2 by charting, etc.

Does that make us not QF? We both had reached a point several months ago where we felt the Lord was telling us to try.

I am curious if that makes us technically not QF. Please enlighten me.

Also to answer OP, I do not see anything wrong with getting yourself (including reproductive parts) healthy in order to conceive. I believe that God IS in ultimate control but I also believe He can encourage us to live a certain way, take care of ourselves a certain way, and these things could be done for Him to create life. Nothing wrong with that! Like I said, I think He is directing us to try for a child. Just my two cents.

[cappuccinosmom]

Not to highjack your thread but QF means *not* trying, ever?

For us it does. I don't think it's a sin to try for a child. Biblical principal definitely leans towards that more than preventing.

But we have said "We want to leave the number and timing of children entirely up to you, Lord, because we believe you have a plan for us beyond our understanding or ability to match with our own reasoning of what is good". So actively seeking to use fertility to create a "family plan" of our own, whether that is avoiding or TTC, is out for us.

[cappuccinosmom]

Chris Jeub attempted to define "Quiverfull" at his blog. I pretty much agree with what he has to say on it--they are QF with 15, we are QF with 3, and the goal of both families is to be content with what God has ordained for us, and thankful for the blessings he has given us.

[lilyka]

I don't think it matters if one is officially "quiverfull" or not. I mean its not like they send you a membership card (or maybe they do but that would be kinda creepy). I think, what is importantant at the end of the day, is you just have to decide what it means to trust God with your fertility and how much you want to trust him. Lables are lame.

The original question wasn't really "what do i have to do to join this club and wear the T shirt with such and such a logo." The question boiled down to "At what point am I no longer trusting God to work this out?" That is an important question.

[lilmom]

LOL Lilyka..at trying to join the club and get the t-shirt and logo. Certainly that is not what I am trying to do. I do appreciate your response.

I think for me, maybe I do not quite fit into the textbook definition of QF if that means never trying, because like I mentioned before, my DH and I were not trying, just being open to whatever happened, and then suddenly at the same time both came to each other and said that we felt the Lord was telling us we needed to try. SO I still feel we are following God's plan, but perhaps others don't see it that way, and that's ok.

In any case, OP I wish you the best on your journey.

[cappuccinosmom]

Right. No, I wasn't trying to make it a club.

Much of the time I see people dissing QF saying "It's trying to get as many babies as possible! How is that trusting God." The Jeubs page addressed that, and in fact said it's *not* a club or a contest.

[lilyka]

I was not beiong too serious there. It seems at times on this board especially people cling to a lable and feel all kinds of pressure to do this and not thins so they can be AP or a babywearer or quiverfull or vegetarian and people go on at length quibbeling about exactly what each of these things mean and some of them do turn into clubs and official organizations complete with membership cards and logos. Living your life trusting God in this area is beautiful in so many ways and I hate to see it reduced to a catch phrase with a list of requirements. I know no one here was doing that. But thats why I pointed out that its about trusting God. Not being this or that lable. What can you do and not do and still believe you are fully trusting God?

[rlmueller]

Why wouldn't quiverfull not mean adoption, foster, sponser...I pray for more children to come to our life. I don't care how it happens. I will be led to an answer or not--in His time.

I think the point of quiverfull is not artificially limiting the children God deems fit to knit to your womb (homage to the knitting crowd).

I fall short, but that is my two cents.

[waldorfknitmama]