Birth parents contacting kids on facebook - Page 3

[Polliwog]

I guess I see it differently since I'm living it. My son was taken into care when he was 22 months old, his older sister was a baby and his other sister was 2 1/2. Their birth mother is a nice woman. Not someone I would likely be friends with but a nice person. Not a monster by any means. She just wasn't the parent they needed when they needed her. Their grandmother is a hard working woman who adores her grandchildren. She just couldn't raise another set of children. My soon-to-be adopted daughter's circumstances are different but I wouldn't choose a closed adoption (or a "semi-open" adoption that doesn't allow for contact both ways.)

Sometimes it does seem like it would be easier just to shut the door and pretend that my kids didn't have lives before they met me. But, that's not fair to them. They did have lives before they met me. There are people who care about them. Not all are people whom we will see. At least for now. Maybe in the future. There are people who have information that is invaluable to me and my children and answers to questions that they may have in the future. Especially when it comes to new information about their birth parents mental health.

When we visit my son's birth mother and grandmother, there is no adult/child power differential. They are just people who we see and the kids have fun. They eat cake and snacks. They play outside. We swim in the lake sometimes. My son gets to see his birth mother and grandmother (and other relatives) and new birth sister as people not mythical creatures. It's not what is best in every situation (we have no contact with his birth father) but it's best for MY son and his sisters.

[Sierra]

Originally Posted by Smithie

Other things (like safety, emotional healing, coming to terms with one's identity in the new family) are my priority.

I think where the difference of opinion comes in here for many of us is that hard-won experience tells us that emotional healing and "coming to terms with one's identity in a new family" almost counter-intuitively indicate the need for more openess than what you are speaking of (so long as it can be done relatively safely).

Believe me, before I started my journey, I probably could have written your post.

But unless you've sat with your developmentally 7/8 year old child as he sobbed for his mother in a breakthrough moment when after almost a year he finally lets you see how much he needs to know she loves him because he knows you can accept that...unless you've been there to see how much healing is in that moment...I don't think you can know what it means to rebuild a life with a child (in terms of emotional healing or "place in a new family") after his was wiped out.

And given that you could so easily say the same things you are saying about a 15 month old child, I know this isn't just about age at adoption. Having personally met Melaya, I can say you are definitely on the wrong track in terms of your thinking about what a child would or would not get from having a relationship with her. Of course, you don't know that, as you've never met her. But that's just the point. You haven't met your own child's parents either.

[Smithie]

"But unless you've sat with your developmentally 7/8 year old child as he sobbed for his mother in a breakthrough moment when after almost a year he finally lets you see how much he needs to know she loves him because he knows you are okay with that..."

... but dear God, what if she doesn't? And if she does, wouldn't that be an appropriate time to start letting the cards and letters come through? Perhaps even to suggest through the agency what her biokid wants/needs to hear from her in terms of love, "I'm doing better now" etc.?

I feel like we're talking at cross-purposes here, because my resolve to BEGIN with no direct contact between my child and any adults in his birth family is being equated with a refusal to acknowledge, respect, discuss, keep track of, or send/receive communications to/from the birth family. And obviously, if I wanted that, I wouldn't be pursuing an adoption of a child who will remember his former surname and his biomom's address! I'm not gunning to be the only "real" mom! The kid is showing up with a biofamily photo album (provide that his worker can get cooperation from anybody in the birth family, it a huge deal to them to get those photos). Apparently I have to keep it hidden away and bring it out to look at on a regular basis, as the kids tend to shred the photos during a stage of the grieving process and the agency can't replace them. Nobody is in this to disappear the biofamily.

Now that I think of it, though, I'm not sure based on the "openness" paperwork I filled out that the agency would even consent to pass on written communication to a minor child from one of the TPRed parents. Extended family, yes. Letters from TPRed bioparents to be handed over at age 18, yes. Siblings also in care, most definitely yes. I don't recall an option to have ongoing notes from bioparents to minors. But that doesn't mean it's never done... I'll ask. I want that communication for sure, if they're willing, even if I choose not to pass it on to a young child.

And after all, this is the Internet age. If I change my mind as you think I may, then I'll have all the information I need to initiate physical contact. But honestly, I hope the situation doesn't call for it.

[Polliwog]

Why would the state have to be involved? People have confidential P.O boxes, or e-mail addresses, or whatever. Just because the state isn't supporting openness to some degree or another doesn't mean that it's not what's best for the child.

[Sierra]

Originally Posted by Smithie

... but dear God, what if she doesn't?

Dear Smithie, do you think that after many years of foster parenting, several of those years taking in some of my state's most complicated therapeutic cases, that you -- someone who as far as I know has not yet taken a single placement -- could introduce me to something I have never seen?

That you could somehow spin all my experiences in such a way that everything I have learned over these years means nothing and resembles nothing of the wisdom I have gained?

Love is such a complicated thing. When it comes to parental love and affection, I have seen the full range. In the example I gave here, there is no way on earth you could say about this child that his mother loved him the way that we typically think about maternal love. I've written this post a couple of times and ultimately decided to leave out ALL the details, though they would be helpful, because this story is not rightfully mine.

But I will tell you this, in the many years the state said "no contact," it did nothing for his therapeutic process. It did nothing for his ability to accept a new role in a new family. It did nothing at all for him or anyone but foster a fantasy that his mother would come back for him, all knight in shining armor style...someday...a fantasy that he had so thickly constructed around him by the time he came to us that it was never possible to fully deconstruct.

Love was not the point of this story. Relationship, access, information...that was the point, and that did have a therapeutic role to play in his life.

And if she does, wouldn't that be an appropriate time to start letting the cards and letters come through? Perhaps even to suggest through the agency what her biokid wants/needs to hear from her in terms of love, "I'm doing better now" etc.?

Absolutely, but there is little foundation for that when you say "no-contact, no-way" from the get go. Good, healthy open adoption relationships, especially in complicated foster-adoption cases, take hard work and time to build. I know because I have done it.

I feel like we're talking at cross-purposes here, because my resolve to BEGIN with no direct contact between my child and any adults in his birth family is being equated with a refusal to acknowledge, respect, discuss, keep track of, or send/receive communications to/from the birth family.

It's hard to tell from your posts because honestly, the way they have read until just now, it is hard to imagine much back and forth at all.

No one here has said: "give it all right away in any form requested." ds' birthfather, for example, is given very limited rights to photos of ds because of restrictions I've placed on the relationship due to my perceptions of what I need to do in the best interest of ds. ds' mother does not have our address, has heard but has never been given in written form our last name (an unusual name) to my knowledge, and only knows the state we live in, even though we (our whole family, including ds) visit her in her own state (on one hand, it is a little silly to withold the address because she definitely is not capable of getting it together to get out here...I have no doubt about that...I worry more about, as you said, where that info might accidently land if given to her). But we have a relationship, and it is key.

Part of how I know it is key is because we don't have a relationship with dd's family. I see the difference it makes for ds to have that kind of normalization of the whole odd experience that makes up "family" for him, and I see how much dd has begun to suffer without it. Would I be able to really see her suffering had I not seen how well ds has done with the relationships with which he has been gifted? I am sure that I would not have recognized it for what it is if dd's adoption was the only we had ever experienced as parents (and perhaps if we had not been such experienced foster parents). Which explains my mysterious need to keep coming back to this thread and talk about this even when you say that you are totally closed on the issue. Because I know what dd is missing.

As an adoptive parent, you have ALL the control. That's the thing. You get to say how it happens. So why say from the very start that it just won't happen no matter what in any way?

Am I saying an open adoption is right for everyone in all circumstances? No. Am I saying a certain type of open adoption is the only way to go? No. But you so easily brush off the possibility of openess in any form (I saw this especially in your response to Melaya) that I think you are throwing out the baby with the bathwater, before even getting to know the baby.

Now that I think of it, though, I'm not sure based on the "openness" paperwork I filled out that the agency would even consent to pass on written communication to a minor child from one of the TPRed parents. Extended family, yes. Letters from TPRed bioparents to be handed over at age 18, yes. Siblings also in care, most definitely yes.

That's the way it was with my dd. We don't have contact partly because the state didn't feel it would be a good idea, in that particular case, and moreso now when we could really decide for ourselves (its not that they made us sign a contract or anything), partly because we're not sure yet from the information we have what we can do safely. (Also, we can't find them...there is a history of homelessness, for instance, complicating things.)

But that's not the only thing I have seen with kids whose parents are TPRd at say 5, 6, 7, or 8. A lot of what I've seen are just miserable failures of parents who can't seem to get their acts together.

I don't recall an option to have ongoing notes from bioparents to minors. But that doesn't mean it's never done... I'll ask. I want that communication for sure, if they're willing, even if I choose not to pass it on to a young child.

I'm not about to claim that notes are the best way to go either. Like I said very early on in this thread, open adoption in foster adoptions is so extremely tricky. ds' birthmother fought her way to parent ds, and she is not in a position where she can really begin to accept responsibility and come to terms with not being able to parent him. We like doing visits altogether with her as a family -- rather than having her send letters -- because with us standing there, she isn't about to say something about how he was stolen from her. We can also give her a lot of minute-by-minute guidance about what is appropriate, and helpful communication, and help her understand what ds needs to hear from her. We couldn't do that type of intensive guidance with letters. So in this case, contact is truly the best way.

And yeah, if letters were allowed, I would recommend that they -- as you indicate -- go through the adoptive parents first for an ultimate decision about whether the letter is okay to go to the child at that point in time.

And after all, this is the Internet age. If I change my mind as you think I may, then I'll have all the information I need to initiate physical contact. But honestly, I hope the situation doesn't call for it.

Unfortunately, despite this being the internet age, our search for dd's birthparents have come up absolutely empty handed. It's been discouraging. I can also say that ds' mother does not have internet access. Believe it or not, there are still many folks even in the digital age that have nothing to do with the internet. So no guarantees.

[RedOakMomma]

Great post, Sierra. Thank you for saying it.

Melaya, nice to "see" you here again! It feels like it's been a long while.

[Smithie]

"...do you think that after many years of foster parenting, several of those years taking in some of my state's most complicated therapeutic cases, that you -- someone who as far as I know has not yet taken a single placement -- could introduce me to something I have never seen?

That you could somehow spin all my experiences in such a way that everything I have learned over these years means nothing and resembles nothing of the wisdom I have gained?"

Wow. No. I don't think that at all. Sorry to give that impression.

Look, I still can't imagine willingly bringing my child within ten miles of somebody who thinks that s/he should be parenting my child and the state stole him away (be that a bioparent, an aunt, a grandma, whatever), but I take your experience to heart. We already have a reference for an open-adoption-friendly therapist who we plan to use during the adjustment period, so we'll see what she says about the specific case.

And I'll make sure I have all the names (if any) and addresses (if any) and emails (please God) of biofamily members who are open to contact. I actually care quite a lot about knowing where they are, and would be distressed on my child's behalf if homelessness or some other kind of instability resulted in my losing track and him having to go to a lot of trouble and expense later in life and maybe never finding them. I don't want to limit his choices. I just want him to make them when he's got the inner resources to deal with all the possible consequences.

I remain seriously unconvinced that picnicking with biomom is in anybody's best interests except maybe biomom's, but I also don't see any reason why any of you would make this stuff up just to torture me. I know you're being sincere, and that the openness in your own adoptions is truly working well. I just think that in attempting to recruit me to your point of view, you may also being ideologically overcorrecting after years of seeing/experience/reading about family ties being cut and identities hidden for NO reason except social stigma, bad agencies policies, etc.

If you came to a decision to start up physical contact after the adoption and before adolescence, then perhaps we will as well. How this thread started was with loss of anonymity for adoptive families, without their consent. That's where I'll end my participation in it. Loss of anonymity is something I will do everything I can to avoid, because once our identity is out there to anyone in the birth family, I have no control over what happens to it. Nobody ever learns our names or address. Nobody ever receives or takes an updated photo. We are not interested in being tracked down on mother-UAVing Facebook by a member of the family that we've decided not have contact with.

(And why did it become the social norm for minors to have a non-anonymous social networking presence online??? WTH??? I am so not looking forward to this fight with ANY of my kids...)

[Polliwog]

Originally Posted by Smithie

Look, I still can't imagine willingly bringing my child within ten miles of somebody who thinks that s/he should be parenting my child and the state stole him away (be that a bioparent, an aunt, a grandma, whatever), but I take your experience to heart. We already have a reference for an open-adoption-friendly therapist who we plan to use during the adjustment period, so we'll see what she says about the specific case.

I promise that we've got a good relationship with my son's birth family. I'm not making it up. Neither my son's birth mother or my soon-to-be adopted daughter's birth father are dangerous people. At all. And my son doesn't remember living with his birth mother or grandmother. He has no bad memories of anything. Your potential child may or may not either.

I was at every court date for my kids. And every permanency and team planning meeting. I'm not trying to hide from my kids first families. If there was a likely security risk, then they would have shielded my identity but that wasn't the case. And when STBAD's birth mother started causing a problem, a restraining order was put in place. I've never given out my address but I suppose they could find it out pretty easily. I've been to my son's birth mother and grandmother's houses. They've never been to mind. And they ALWAYS have supported ME as my son's MOTHER. They're always very respectful of that relationship.

It's funny, I think I'm the first person at my DSS agency to attend every court date and to be interested in openness post adoption (although, they are talking about some level of shared parenting in foster situations when safe and appropriate.) But, it's much more common now. And there are numerous sessions at our state Foster/Adoptive Parenting conference that deal with pre- and post-adoption contact.

[queenjane]

And yeah, if letters were allowed, I would recommend that they -- as you indicate -- go through the adoptive parents first for an ultimate decision about whether the letter is okay to go to the child at that point in time.

Yeah...at this point i'm a little confused. Smithie...are you thinking that we are all saying hey let your kid go have lunch with abusive biomom, no questions asked? I dont see anyone saying that. I think its common sense that, at least initially and perhaps for a very long time, that all contact would go through the adoptive parent.

I also think, for example in melaya's situation, she would have (dont want to put words in her mouth) understood had the adoptive mother said "we really need time to bond as a family, i need for him to see me as his mother..." but NOT cut off contact (between the adoptive PARENTS and birthmother)....it sounds like the adoptive parents will not even communicate w/ melaya at this point, if i understand her correctly? Or maybe i misunderstood.

Polliwog....you mentioned why would it even have to go through the state....where i live contact is really frowned upon. My friend is adopting a sib group, and when she asked if she could give the agency a nondescript email (which would be anonymous) address to pass onto bmom, the worker told her no, she needed to "focus on the kids now"... Her new son was crying the other day because he didnt have a pic of bmom, and no way for the new mom to get one, though she promised she would never stop trying. If you werent the FP first, there really isnt any way to track down a bparent if you dont even have a name and the agency isnt willing to give up that info.

[Polliwog]

Ahhh, (non-FP) adoptive parents here would likely be given a copy of the child's birth certificate to use for school registration and whatever else it might be needed.

[Smithie]

"Her new son was crying the other day because he didnt have a pic of bmom, and no way for the new mom to get one, though she promised she would never stop trying..."

Wow. That's beyond closed. That's closed, nailed shut and dropped in the Mariana Trench.

In addition to the photo album that we get to keep, we've been promised access to the full file with nothing redacted including names and locations of any family members that DSS had contact with over the course of the case, to look over as part of our decision to proceed to adoption. But we're not allowed to see this file until TPR is completed, because of privacy issues. Maybe I'd better bring a pocket scanner or develop a photographic memory.

[queenjane]

Originally Posted by Polliwog

Ahhh, (non-FP) adoptive parents here would likely be given a copy of the child's birth certificate to use for school registration and whatever else it might be needed.

Oh i forgot...upon finalization, i got a copy of a birth record, it said "for adoption purposes only, not official use" but it was a birth certificate i guess? very limited info but his bmom's name WAS on it, weird cuz the child profile i received was redacted and her name crossed out everywhere.

In addition to the photo album that we get to keep, we've been promised access to the full file with nothing redacted including names and locations of any family members that DSS had contact with over the course of the case, to look over as part of our decision to proceed to adoption. But we're not allowed to see this file until TPR is completed, because of privacy issues. Maybe I'd better bring a pocket scanner or develop a photographic memory.

Thats definitely not how its done here. And good luck on the photo album, i hope you get it! I'm adopting an 8 yr old, and i think we'll probably get NOTHING by way of pics of her, her family, etc (beyond the ones i took myself during visits)....i think in time her mom will let me copy what she has, but i need to let the "dust" settle before contacting her about it, i think its probably too new and raw right now. She did give me my fs' infant picture which was nice. And i have another one from his first bday, with his dad.

All foster kids are supposed to have a life book...my stbad' current fm threw her lifebook in a garbage bag along with the pics i'd given fd and a bunch of other stuff, to send along with her, and when i looked at it...there were no pics and very little in the way of information, just some stuff about what she liked to do/eat/best friends etc.

[Smithie]

A garbage bag. Niiiiiiiice.

We'll see how it pans out - I know they do try to pull it together, but I'm sure the thing will be more complete and in better condition if the custody chain has included foster families of the non-garbage-bag variety.

[MissinNYC]

In addition to the photo album that we get to keep, we've been promised access to the full file with nothing redacted including names and locations of any family members that DSS had contact with over the course of the case, to look over as part of our decision to proceed to adoption. But we're not allowed to see this file until TPR is completed, because of privacy issues. Maybe I'd better bring a pocket scanner or develop a photographic memory.

It's a law in most states (and definitely in mine, PA) that you are given a copy of that file upon adoption. Full disclosure and all that. Everyone's last names are redacted, though, usually even birth parents and anything else relevant to finding the family.

I really think you're wrong about the contact thing. Research shows that appropriate, limited, mediated contact with the birth family is good for kids. No one is arguing for one big happy family or unrestricted access. But as someone with no foster/adoptive kids, I really think you should listen to those of us with foster/adoptive experience when we say:
1. you may not know what you think you do about this
2. anything the state/agency says about anything is questionable. don't assume you are really getting pictures/access/info until you see it.
3. many of the parents who cannot parent effectively are not dangerous or violent, they just cannot parent. And being in contact with them does not harm their kids. it may be painful, not not harmful.

[AndVeeGeeMakes3]

Originally Posted by Smithie

I feel like we're talking at cross-purposes here, because my resolve to BEGIN with no direct contact between my child and any adults in his birth family is being equated with a refusal to acknowledge, respect, discuss, keep track of, or send/receive communications to/from the birth family. And obviously, if I wanted that, I wouldn't be pursuing an adoption of a child who will remember his former surname and his biomom's address! I'm not gunning to be the only "real" mom! The kid is showing up with a biofamily photo album (provide that his worker can get cooperation from anybody in the birth family, it a huge deal to them to get those photos). Apparently I have to keep it hidden away and bring it out to look at on a regular basis, as the kids tend to shred the photos during a stage of the grieving process and the agency can't replace them. Nobody is in this to disappear the biofamily.

This feels disingenuous to me. Maybe your thinking is evolving, I hope so, but you've said several times that you plan to move, post haste, after TPR. And that sounds like YOU'RE the ones who are planning on disappearing.

Also, I'm very glad we have plans to move in the next few years. Honestly, while I'd agree to send letters to grandparents, aunts, uncles etc. through the agency, I hope that they are not requested. And photos? WTH? The adoptive parents of a child removed from an abusive environment actually send updated photos back to the family?

and

So no, there are no circumstances in which I will change my mind about having an open adoption of a 1st grader who was removed from his first home by social services for abuse or neglect. Our caseworker knows that, so if there's a biofamily she'd like to see staying in the picture, I assume she'll pick another adoptive family. We will remain anonymous and move away after finalization.

It seems to me that you've already assumed your role as "real mom," and vacated any other mother who's been a parent, to whatever degree, to her son. Your continued repetition of "my son," "my son," "my son," suggests to me that you're not dealing with the fact that he is, and will always be in many ways, someone else's son.

This has been, for me, and I imagine for many adoptive moms, one of the hardest parts of adoption. Sure, VeeGee's "mine," but she's also hers, too.

[Smithie]

"It seems to me that you've already assumed your role as "real mom," and vacated any other mother who's been a parent, to whatever degree, to her son. Your continued repetition of "my son," "my son," "my son," suggests to me that you're not dealing with the fact that he is, and will always be in many ways, someone else's son."

"Real" is a funny term, eh? I'm certainly not going to pretend I gave birth to him. But I'm very likely to be the first female person in his life who will be in a position (mentally, physically, legally) to assume a "real" parental role, unless the adoption happens after a long-term foster placement or long-term kinship care by an aunt or grandmother. Which one of us is the real mom? Are we both/all real moms? I don't think that question is answerable in the abstract. But for sure, I am the mom that is legally and morally responsible for safeguarding whatever shreds of childhood remain once I come into the picture. The buck stops with this mom.

We don't have a frantic post-adoption move plan, but we're not changing our existing plans either, and they call for a relocation in the next few years. I haven't heard anything here or elsewhere that makes me believe that staying in town is necessary to initiate two-way social contact with the birth family if that emerges as a desired path (by my son, his therapist, whoever), and since I'm not willing under any circumstances to share identifying details, it's just as well that we won't be running into people at the grocery store. This is not a very large town. If the birth family ever even found out our religion, they could track us down immediately. If I'm going to try to have ongoing written communication going back and forth (and MDC is not the only venue where I've been strongly encouraged to do that), then the farther away we are, the more open the communication can be.

It's useful to know that last names have been redacted in the adoption file in other states. I'll see what I can do about that. If Beth managed to attend the TPR hearings in NC, then it may be possible for me to arrange that in my state. It sort of depends on the how the worker truly feels about post-adoption communication... she SAYS she's a big fan, but it sounds like I should not simply take that on faith. Maybe I can pioneer workable semi-open adoption in this office the way Beth pioneered open adoption. I would sure feel like a jerk if a therapist is telling me 2 years from now that we should explore the option of contact with birthmom, and I have to tell him that we CAN'T because we can't find her and all I have is this one note that she wrote before finalization.

[MissinNYC]

I don't know what your particular plans are, but if you have applied to do regular state adoption, it's likely that the kids you are placed with will already have their TPR's done. In my state, a foster parent has a legal right to attend all hearings/trials about the kid, but no right to speak or be heard at them. So if you are taking kids who are preadoptive, likely TPR will already have come and gone. If you are taking kids as foster placements with an intention of hopefully adopting, TPR might not have taken place yet, but maybe.

I feel like you're not hearing that this kid, especially if he's a first grader, is going to love his mom like crazy. Even if she's a crackhead who beat him. Even if she neglected him and didn't feed him. I have strong feelings of rage and even hatred at times for my son's birthmother, but I know preventing contact would hurt him and only serve to drive a wedge between us. I know you think that you'll raise him and then at 18 he'll have the emotional wherewithall to see her, if he wants, but it really doesn't work like that. The healing you want to create by "protecting" him will only really come about through some form of processing what happened to the mother/child relationship, and that processing should and can frequently be done through contact with birth parents, either visits, letters, etc.

Now, if someone had sexually abused my child or been incredibly maliciously violent, my stance would be different. But the VAST majority of kids come into care because of neglect and shitty parenting, not direct abuse.

[Smithie]

"I feel like you're not hearing that this kid, especially if he's a first grader, is going to love his mom like crazy."

I hear it. I don't even wish that it weren't so. But loving somebody who is really messed up and has hurt you badly is not an issue that is generally resolved by giving then access to your daily life. Time. Distance. Boundaries. Therapy. This is not a radical theory that I've concocted myself about how to help a person move on from an abusive relationship. In fact, it sounds a whole lot like what is going on in the households of the adoptive parents who have posted in this thread about the benefits they have experienced from certain kinds of contact.

Our adoption services unit places kids with their prospective parents as soon as the case plan is changed to adoption - that change is the trigger in the bureaucratic system that gets the file sent over. We might get a post-TPR placement, but I doubt it. I'm no sure that's even what we'd prefer, if there is chance to have more information about the case by attending the TPR proceedings.

[Polliwog]

Who's saying access to their daily lives. We're not talking about dropping by to have an impromptu dinner.

Time- might be necessary in the beginning as the new family unit adjusts. Might make things worse if contact is cutoff completely (as was the case with my son's sister, more or less.)

Distance- you don't need to move away to create distance. Some children would benefit from moving to a new place others may be traumatized by a move to a far away location (as was the case with my son's sister before she found her awesome new forever family.)

Boundaries- of course. No one is saying there should be a freeforall.

Therapy- great. No one is questioning that either.

I also don't think you can compare an abusive spousal relationship with a neglectful (and possibly abusive) parent/child relationship.