Circ drama - warning:sensitive issue!

[Snugglebugmom]

Let me start off with a disclaimer: I need to vent about this and put my own thoughts out there, I am by no means trying to pass judgment on other parents for their choice to either circumcise or not circumcise their baby boy. And for the record, we don't know if this baby is a boy or a girl yet.

DH is circumcised, not because of religious reasons but simply because that was what was done back then and his parents didn't question it or put any thought into it (or any other parenting decision for that matter). He cannot come up with any reason for circumcising a son of his own, other than that he wants him to look like him.
Everything in me screams "no" when I think about it. I am not spending nine months of my life cooking up this perfect little human being, only to have some doctor cut pieces off of him once he is born! It feels like mutilation, the health benefits are highly doubtful and most of it has been debunked by medical research in recent years, and I just cannot think of any good reason to have it done. If DH were Jewish and wanted his kids raised Jewish, that is an entirely different matter. I know how important my faith is to me, so I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss his feelings on the matter in that case. But just because he has been circumcised, he wants his son to be as well?
I have budged on pretty much everything else. I live in a country I hate because he wanted to move here. I raise my kids English instead of Dutch because he doesn't speak Dutch and doesn't want to learn. But on this one, I am not budging. I am however foreseeing months of strive and heated discussions and perhaps a life long grudge.
Has anyone else found themselves in this situation? What did you do? What arguments did you use? How did things pan out in the end?

[azgirl]

I've BTDT and my advice is to back off for a while now since you have time. Ultimately you have to agree to it to have it done, he can't just do it because he wants to. I would just be mellow and chill. He knows how you feel, so it can just sit there in his mind without a lot of drama to it. My husband did want to circ for the same reasons as your husband and I just threw out my thoughts and asked him to research it when he had a chance so we could talk about it at some point. Of course he never did. In our situation his mom got pushy about us doing it and my husband does not appreciate being pushed. She was being weird and pushy and I was being calm and (seemingly) chill about it, so he told his mom to shove it and there was no fight about it with us. Everybody is different, but most people don't want to be pushed. I gently reminded my DH that our son wouldn't "look like him" down there until after puberty anyway (and frankly, my kiddo is more fascinated by Daddy's facial hair than his penis). I know it's not always popular around here, but being super mellow about it kept my son intact. I would have resorted to simply saying no at the hospital if it had come to that, but I didn't let on that it was non-negotiable. I guess I think if your husband doesn't have a good reason to circ your son, I wouldn't give him a chance to develop a strong feeling by starting a dramatic power struggle. If you have to put your foot down after the birth, he may accept it more because you have been super mellow-it will be obvious that it is just important to you and not about you "winning" Of course all this depends on how intense he is and the way you guys normally handle things. Good luck!

[Snugglebugmom]

Originally Posted by azgirl

I guess I think if your husband doesn't have a good reason to circ your son, I wouldn't give him a chance to develop a strong feeling by starting a dramatic power struggle.

That is an excellent point, and something that hadn't occurred to me at all. The more I push, the more likely he is to dig in his heels and become more and more adamant about circumcision as time progresses. He does feel very strongly about it, but he doesn't have a good reason for it, other than that he himself has been circumcised. And I think he realizes that that is not going to cut it. (pardon the pun).
And I have to admit, with the pregnancy hormones I am much more prone to creating drama than I normally am. I was ready to die on this hill today, but you have really made me think. Thanks so much for your reply, and I think you are dead on about chilling!

[sarahmck]

I see that you're in Canada and I'm not sure how it works there, but I know that in the US circumcision is no longer covered by insurance. It's an elective cosmetic procedure that you have to pay for yourself. I think that that fact is nicely illustrative of the fact that medically, there is absolutely no indication for it. If your baby's nose doesn't resemble either of yours, will he want to alter that, too?

And as the PP pointed out, his genitals won't resemble his father's for ages. The presence of foreskin will be the most minor difference, with size, hairiness, and appearance of the scrotum all being vastly more noticeable.

As a complete aside, it's never too late to start speaking Dutch to your kids! It's such a gift to give them to be bilingual, even with a "non-useful" language like Dutch. It's the learning process that matters. My older child speaks fantastic Dutch, WAY better than mine. Your husband doesn't have to learn it for your kids to!

[lawmama1984]

Originally Posted by sarahmck

I see that you're in Canada and I'm not sure how it works there, but I know that in the US circumcision is no longer covered by insurance. It's an elective cosmetic procedure that you have to pay for yourself.

Actually, this is not true. I am in the US and unfortunately, my insurance covers circ. Medicaid here in TX also covers it It is true that a lot of insurance companies are dropping it and even Medicaid in some states is no longer covering it, but not all.

I do know that circ rates are generally much lower in Canada than a lot of parts of the US. OP I suggest you visit The Case Against Circumcision forum here. It is full of a lot of great information and resources. The people there are full of good advice and many have been in the exact spot you are. Best of luck!

[ein328]

That's a tough situation!

Why not check out the circ-specific thread? I'm sure there's lots of good info/advice from mamas who've BTDT.

[littlebearsmama]

You could also have him watch an actual circumcision being done. There is a video on Compleat Mother's website that's very educational. Maybe if he saw what he would be putting his brand new baby through, he might change his mind. The bottom line is, Mama, you've got to protect your baby.

[sarahmck]

Originally Posted by lawmama1984

Actually, this is not true. I am in the US and unfortunately, my insurance covers circ. Medicaid here in TX also covers it It is true that a lot of insurance companies are dropping it and even Medicaid in some states is no longer covering it, but not all.

Bummer. As I was typing I wondered if maybe it was just a state thing, as so many things are in America. Thanks for the correction.

[corysmilk]

yeah, I think more info for him will be great! both my sons are intact. and I had to fight for my first ds to stay that way.

after my first was born, my cousin had a baby boy she got him circ'd cause daddy wanted it that way, well he had a terrable infection on his penis. her new born was crying all the time and the pain even affected their nursing, she ended up bottle feeding. It was awful to witness. I looked up bad circs once, ummm I will never do that again.

i know it'll work out!! you still have lots of time to get your dh info, and it could be a girl

[chambom]

DDC crashing....

With my first pregnancy, which was a girl, so it became a moot point, but that was the only reason my Dh had also.

There are videos on you tube that will make you cry. He came home one day and I was balling at this video and he realized how strongly I felt about it. There is no reason to inflict that on a brand new baby.

[starshine1001]

My husband is circ'd. So is my oldest son. We fell into the category of doing it because that's what was done. But with my second son, we actually put some THOUGHT into it, and mutually decided to not circ him. We discussed that whole "look like Dad and brother issue" and I even asked around on some boards around here. Instead of heated arguments, why not suggest something like each of you studying the pros and cons, listing them, then presenting them to each other and making an informed decision. I can almost assure you that, if presented with the information and without having a religious reason to circ, he will choose against it.

[Climbergirl]

I wish I had been stronger on this one. I did not want to do it and this was pretty much the ONLY thing DH had a strong opinion on. Seriously, everything else he let me go in the direction I wanted, so I figured, hey, he has a penis, feels strongly about it, and has supported me so much, then why not.

Afterwards, I regretted that train of thought. I had NO IDEA that none of the men in my immediate family were intact. I wish I did, I could have used that.

I hope this one is a little girl so I don't have to go through that with DH again. Especially NOW that he is supporting me with an HBAC.

[philomom]

Originally Posted by Climbergirl

Afterwards, I regretted that train of thought. I had NO IDEA that none of the men in my immediate family were intact. I wish I did, I could have used that.

Okay, not to pick on you but did you mean the men of your family are in fact, in tact?

To the OP... would your kids be intact if they were raised in your homeland? Probably, right? I'd stick with that. Millions of European men are whole and it does them no harm.

[Snugglebugmom]

Originally Posted by philomom

To the OP... would your kids be intact if they were raised in your homeland? Probably, right? I'd stick with that. Millions of European men are whole and it does them no harm.

Yep, I have never known a guy that was circumcised, until I met DH. I did a double take when I first saw his penis, it looked so weird!

Thanks for all the replies, ladies, I appreciate you all taking the time and trouble! I am feeling so strongly about this that giving in is absolutely not an option, but I do realize that tact and patience will make for a better living environment for the next 7 months or so. And if it comes down to a hospital stand-off, then so be it. It's worth fighting for!

[TyrantOfTheWeek]

Maybe you guys can sit down and watch Penn and Teller's Circumcision is BULLS*IT

Hands down it is the best anti circ thing I have ever seen.

[Qbear'smama]

Originally Posted by sarahmck

As a complete aside, it's never too late to start speaking Dutch to your kids! It's such a gift to give them to be bilingual, even with a "non-useful" language like Dutch. It's the learning process that matters. My older child speaks fantastic Dutch, WAY better than mine. Your husband doesn't have to learn it for your kids to!

I agree with this aside. Also as a Canadian, it saddens me that you hate Canada
On the topic, I have friends who have had sons circd (in Canada) and in all cases it was not covered by health care, so you will have to pay for the procedure. I agree with PP that he should watch a video of a circ being done. I told DH if he wanted it done, he would have to accompany our child and be present for the procedure. He has since educated himself and agreed that any boys we have will be intact.

[wholewheatchick]

NOCIRC has a wonderful 20 minute video out now, that I think is brilliant.

http://www.nocirc.org/

It does address the "look like dad" issue; it shows bits of a circumcision (even those bits made me want to hurl); it talks about female circumcision, and that is seen as wrong but male isn't? etc. It also quotes the American Academy of Pediatrics reports; which are more strongly worded than they were before. Perhaps you can find the Canadian equivalents.

[MyFullHouse]

One of the reasons we chose to learn the gender of our babies in advance was to determine whether or not we actually needed to have this particular showdown.

I had already had a circ'ed ds before I met dh. I knew nothing about the procedure at that time.

Dh was pretty adamant, but we wound up having 2 girls first, making it a moot point.
When we discovered #4 was a boy, there was no choice but to hash it out. Even though he swore up and down that he wouldn't change his mind, dh did do his own research. He was shocked by what he found, but still did his darndest to find information that would justify the procedure. Eventually, he admitted he wasn't able to. #4 is not circ'ed!

Whichever side they're on, men believe they're experts on that body part. Granted, they are, in a way! But they often need to be spurred to do their own research on this topic, similar to the way many women need to be spurred to do their research on pregnancy and birth. Having the equipment doesn't necessarily mean knowing what's best, especially in the age of medical procedure=good. Evidence doesn't always change minds, but it's certainly worth a shot!

It's a really bad idea to make it a 7(+) month argument but, in the end, I'd ask him to take just a fraction of the time you've devoted to a healthy pregnancy and birth to do his own research on this aspect of person forming.

[MoonStarFalling]

Keep your ground at the hospital (if they even ask at all, ours didn't) and he will eventually see how great it is. Years after my DH demanding ds be circd (which I didn't allow) my DH saw how great it was and began restoring his own foreskin.

[WifeofAnt]

I didn't read this whole thing but I made hubby a deal when we couldn't agree. I knew he didn't have 'strong' feelings so I tried to be as gentle as I could be. If our baby is a boy he has 100% name control, with no exceptions, and our son won't be circumcised. Boys names aren't something I feel strongly about.
I think my main argument would be that its pretty much permanant. If our (theoretical) son decides at 18 he doesn't like how God made him then he can change it. By waiting he can also get effective pain medication, which isn't available to babies.