WWYD? Cousin is a "bully"

[MommaKitten21]

All right momma's! I need help! Here's the situation:

My nephew is 3 1/2 years old, and my son will be 2 in July. Every time the cousins are together, my nephew is a huge bully. Pushing, shoving, yelling, screaming, ripping toys away, etc etc. He even yells "no!" and other phrases at my son (like: "No! You cant play in my sandbox!")

Tonight the final straw hit. They were kicking the ball back and forth enjoying themselves, and all of a sudden my nephew runs to my son, grabs his head and slams him into the wall. Then comes running over to my mom and says I pushed him! He was proud over it. Meanwhile, my son is screaming and holding his head (He got shoved into the corner of the wall and it hit him right on his temple)

My son didn't act "normal" again for about an hour. Clingy, crying still, and beyond whining. This is all completely out of character for him. Usually, if he falls, he gets right back up... sometimes he whimpers for a minute, and comes and gets a kiss, but that's about it.


I talked to DH on his break from work, and he is dead set on the kids not playing together again unless it's a major family function... and then he would be watching like a hawk. (Obviously we would attend major family things to avoid causing a huge rift)

I don't know if that is necessarily the right thing, or if we are just in the "mama and papa bear" syndrome right now. I cant really talk to my mom or sister about this because my sister is an alcoholic and single mother,so my nephew is pretty much raised by my mom. I know she does the best she can, but obviously, it's just all very very different from our views on parenting and everything else.

How have you guys dealt with conflict with other children that are family? What would you do in this situation? I am 7 months pregnant, so not sure if I am just over reacting or not ya know?

[St. Margaret]

What was the mom's/grandma's reaction to the hitting today? Did they discipline in any way? If not, I'd feel totally fine keeping them apart. Kids will be kids but with no boundaries for appropriate behavior expressed or encouraged, that kid is likely alwyas going to be a pain to be around.

I'm sorry for your son, ouch. And I'm sorry for his cousin; it sounds like he really is not getting what he needs. I know some 3yos are just wild and it's developmentally appropriate and they turn out fine, but from what you're saying about suddenly attacking and family issues, it sounds kind of extreme.

[marlee]

You are NOT over reacting. You need to step back and decline get togethers with the cousin. In my experience it is best to not let anyone one know the reason as to save the relationship. Seriously no matter how you say it feelings will be hurt.

We have has a very similar situation and there was a blow up. No more playdates with the children except family events.

[One_Girl]

I don't think a kid can be a bully at three. I wouldn't allow my child around a child like this, especially if the parents do nothing to address it, but I think it is more likely that he has trouble with sharing, expressing his desires, and with violence and when he decides he is done sharing and having other kids around him he doesn't know how to vocalize that so he goes straight to violence. My dd has a friend who used to do something similar (to other kids but not to my dd) because he thought that since he wanted something to start or stop that meant that everyone knew he wanted that and they were deliberatly not cooperating with him. As he learned to express himself more and more he stopped acting out violently and started to develop negotiation skills. It was a long process for him that lasted until towards the end of kindergarten. It is very normal for young kids to be angry when things aren't going their way and to think that someone is being mean and when you add a tendency towards violence to that you have a kid who isn't fun to be around.

[Marsupialmom]

Some of this is age appropriate behavior. Undesirable but age appropriate.

This is the time I would say you need to limit the length of visits. Also, watching closer heading off before something happens. This time you were not watching close to see if there was more going on. My child would only bite his cousin. Did fine at day care, parks, et after watching we discovered why. His cousin was not sharing and everything he was trying to do wasn't working. Yes, we worked with our son but the biggest stopper was teaching our nephew basic sharing. We have had relatives issues and I would not limit on one incident. Honestly next year it could be your son being the mean one.

[Linda on the move]

One of my nieces is a bully to my special needs DD. She excludes her from play and tells the other cousins not to talk to her.

I haven't seen in her (or her mother, father or sibs) for nearly two years.

I don't miss them.

[eepster]

He's not being a bully, he's being a 3 1/2 yo.

The behavior obviously needs correction, but it isn't a reason to label a 3 1/2 yo for years to come. This kind of behavior is pretty typical for 3 1/2 yo, and tends to get out grown.

Just talk to your mom about strategies to work on the problem. Keep visits brief. Only visit when nephew is well rested and fed, etc. Make sure discipline is handle consistently and promptly. You may even need to take a few weeks off (at this age a few weeks can make a huge difference in behavior.)

[4evermom]

Definitely plan on being right there in the future. At these ages many kids need a ton of guidance. If you are watching you might even notice triggers for your nephews behavior. Sometimes one kid wants to stop playing and doesn't know how. They need an adult to intervene and give them a simple script to say. Tell nephew "just say 'I'm done playing ball' when you want to stop." It helps a lot to tell kids what TO do rather than what NOT to do, redirecting them with positive language. Something like "Gentle" or "Hit the ball" (instead of saying "don't hit ds"). That sort of thing takes practice to say in the moment so do practice with your own ds (remember to walk instead of don't run, stay on the sidewalk instead of don't go in the street, etc).

Boys in particular react to feelings in a physical way. They are more likely to hit if they get their feelings hurt or if they feel bad for another reason. It's not always obvious why they are hitting but usually there is a reason (not necessarily a good one but it is helpful to understand none the less).

3 1/2 yos just don't have impulse control. It doesn't start to kick in until more like 5 so there really needs to be an adult very close and paying attention.

Maybe he feels territorial if you are meeting at your moms and she is one of his primary caretakers. One of my nieces would suddenly bite if my ds got too close or in her territory. They have a great relationship now, but she was less verbal at that age and she is an introvert. Sometimes kids need down time from each other but don't know how to get it any other way.

Keep future visits short and sweet. Do them in the morning before anyone is too tired and end them at the first sign of trouble or before. Give the kids a chance to interact when they can be the primary focus (not at a family gathering with distracted adults). This will help them get in better playing habits. Kids get into behavioral ruts pretty easily. My ds certainly associates certain kids with certain things (ways of playing) so you want to avoid getting into a bad pattern by setting them up for success and having good playdates. But giving the kids a break from each other (a month or something) can be really helpful if they do get into a rut.

[raksmama]

I agree that a child is not a bully at 3!

However I would still try to avoid allowing your son with this child for the time being.

DS has a cousin who is 4 years older and still to this day, and ds is now 12, I am careful always to keep an eye on him when he is with this cousin. I would never let him be alone with this boy! We have never said anything to his mom, my sister in law because it would just cause an unnecessary rift, but DH and I have always been wary of this boy.

[verde]

I agree with 4evermom: when they're 3-4 y/o, you just have to be there and watch them closely.

We have a little playgroup of 3-4y/o's in our neighborhood and DD plays with them at least once a week. One of the 4y/o boys is particularly aggressive. All of the mama's watch him and when he starts to hit/push/shove/ we all repeat, "no hitting, no shoving, be gentle ect, ect." He's fine as long as one of us is there and he stops when we begin our mantra but the minute we are gone, you can hear the wailing, "He hit meeeee....."

Do I think he's a bully? No. I think he's a high energy, impulsive little boy. Do I trust him? Nope. He needs watching. As one of the mama's said, "kids are naturally aggressive and it's our job to socialize them and teach them to handle their own impulses." But I do like the little guy and he can be really sweet as well.

[lonegirl]

Originally Posted by MommaKitten21

All right momma's! I need help! Here's the situation:

My nephew is 3 1/2 years old, and my son will be 2 in July. Every time the cousins are together, my nephew is a huge bully. Pushing, shoving, yelling, screaming, ripping toys away, etc etc. He even yells "no!" and other phrases at my son (like: "No! You cant play in my sandbox!")

This was my child at the early part of 3. He is generally a well behaved child and plays excellently with older kids....but for a while at Gymboree I had to be right on top of him. I was getting looks from other parents like I had a monster of a child. Every week before we went in I had to remind him about being gentle and sharing with the younger boys and girls (he was usually the oldest in the free play). There were occassions where I had to pull him out of the play area to sit a bit on the bench outside of his class. He hogged balls ( http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...2&id=826530320 ) took balls away, ran to be in front of kids on the balance beam/slide. Then one day he started handing out balls to all the kids and parents....
So yes....very undesirable...but seems to be a normal phase. It is the responsibility of the parent to try and use those times for teaching and correcting undesirable behaviour.

[Linda on the move]

I'm the odd one out, so I'll explain why. Even though many, many children show some aggressive behavoir around this age, how it is responded to has a tremendous impact on how successful they move past it.

Originally Posted by MommaKitten21

I cant really talk to my mom or sister about this because my sister is an alcoholic and single mother,so my nephew is pretty much raised by my mom. I know she does the best she can, but obviously, it's just all very very different from our views on parenting and everything else.

No one is doing a great job raising this child. There's no dad, mom is a drunk, and grandma is doing the best she can.

This situation is most likely not going to get better overnight. It really isn't the same as the phase a child with at least one involved parent might go through.

[MommaKitten21]

All right, thanks for all the replies!

I've had some time to talk to DH and really figure out the issue here. I firmly believe if this behavior was coming from a child who's parents were at least trying to discourage that type of behavior... I could see the whole "riding out the wave" side of things, and I would have no problem with my child playing with them.

However, that is not the case here. My mom didn't move at all, and the only thing she said to my nephew was "say you're sorry!" Which, most of us know how effective that is.

My nephew, for being 3 1/2 is way behind on the learning curve as well. He doesn't talk all that well, and he definitely has a very, very hard time conveying his thoughts to others. I understand some of this is age appropriate... and I understand my son will probably do some of the same things when he is older, but I also plan to do whatever I can to ensure my child knows things like that are unacceptable. I don't believe that is the case here.

However, I believe my nephew has so many "strikes" against him due to his environment, the neglect at home, the lack of guidance from any adult figure, and being raised by a grandparent that I just don't feel him hanging around my son is something I want. I have slowly seen the behaviors escalating, and I guess that's where my concern is. First it was just verbal demands, then it turned into light shoves and pushes, then taking toys out of my son's hand, then punching him in the chest, and now slamming his head into the wall.... all I can think of is what's next? and when is enough, enough?

I just know it's going to be weird to make up excuses as to why we will not be having them over, or why we cant go over there... but I also know it will cause a huge family scene if I say something. So I am not sure what to do about that now. Any thoughts?

[Lovinmum]

I think you are doing the right thing for sure. I know if it was my son, in the same situation, I would do the same. As for the awkwardness, I would just tell them the truth. That you are tired of your nephew hurting your child and no one reprimanding him and you don't want your son around that kind of influence. Or tell them you think they need a break from each other until nephew learns its not okay to pick on your son. It will probably not go over very well but it sounds like they need a little wake up call on his behaviour. I think its better than lying and making up other reasons too, which will just cause more problems later on.

[raksmama]

I feel really sorry for your nephew, however you have to think about your son. Because of what you said, “My son didn't act "normal" again for about an hour. Clingy, crying still, and beyond whining.”, for the time being it really seems like it would be the best thing to keep the two boys apart. Does your mom live near you? How often do you usually see her? If she lives in a different city and you only see her every now and then, it might not be such a problem. However if your mom lives next door and you usually see her everyday, it definitely will be .
The more I read about your nephew, things like “My nephew, for being 3 1/2 is way behind on the learning curve as well. He doesn't talk all that well, and he definitely has a very, very hard time conveying his thoughts to others.” and “First it was just verbal demands, then it turned into light shoves and pushes, then taking toys out of my son's hand, then punching him in the chest, and now slamming his head into the wall....”, it seems like he has sensory problems known as Sensory Processing Disorder. Poor boy! These things will not go away on their own. Sensory Processing Disorder is very real and not just a label to excuse bad behaviour. Seeing an occupational therapist early (and nephew is only 3) can make a world of difference! But if SPD does not get treated it can get worse!
How would your mom react if you told her about these books?
http://www.out-of-sync-child.com/introduction.htm
http://www.sensory-processing-disord...ive-child.html

here is a checklist: http://www.sensory-processing-disord...checklist.html

[4evermom]

Originally Posted by MommaKitten21

I have slowly seen the behaviors escalating, and I guess that's where my concern is. First it was just verbal demands, then it turned into light shoves and pushes, then taking toys out of my son's hand, then punching him in the chest, and now slamming his head into the wall.... all I can think of is what's next? and when is enough, enough?

It would have been ideal to be right there during all kid interactions from the very beginning and nip that all in the bud before it slowly escalated. Even if your nephew doesn't have good interactions with other kids, he would learn how to have good ones with yours and know you'll be right there and that you will intervene. Kids like that need a ton of guidance. They don't pick up cues or hints. They need direct and clear statements (kind and firm) followed by action. They need hands on parenting.

I get that he isn't getting that from his own parents and your mother. But he hasn't been getting it from you, either. You shouldn't have been waiting around for someone to address his behavior. I'm not trying to sound harsh. I know it's tricky with other people's kids but when they are interacting with your own it is ok to intervene and give them guidance. And when things start to go downhill, you leave. It's fine to take a break from dn. I wouldn't make my ds play with a kid he didn't enjoy either. I just think it is too bad more work wasn't put into the relationship earlier.

I used to tell my own ds that other children weren't for touching. I know that sounds a bit crazy but other kids would frequently misinterpret ds's physicalness. They would think he was hitting or shoving them if he touched them. He did this thing where he would try to initiate play by gently poking other kids. That didn't always get the result he wanted so I coached him to not touch kids unless he was hugging them. In that situation, I told him to say the word "hug" so they would know what to expect. And I coached him to walk up to other kids and say "Hi, my name is ___, want to play?" It worked really well.

So hindsight being 20/20, I would have told dn that babies aren't for touching. I would have picked up ds if dn was poking at him. I would have coached dn to trade toys if ds had something he wanted (I did do that with ds when he was interacting with younger toddlers or babies. Something about being offered something new and swapping works really well with kids around 2 and under).

I really don't mean any of that to sound harsh. The question is where do you want to go from here. For sure, have a little break from dn for starters. Then, either create a family rift by continuing to avoid future contact or go into the next visit prepared to stay by ds's side and intervene as necessary.

[nextcommercial]

Your nephew may have problems that are not his fault. He can't teach himself how to behave in social situations. He may outgrow some of this, but they may just evolve into something else.

I've known hundreds of three and a half year olds, and it's not "normal". It's agressive, and it's not OK. Getting mad, making bad choices, acting impulsively are all three and a half year old behaviors. But, body slamming and constantly grabbing toys are not normal. (unless it's acceptable in the home) I don't believe in making excuses for kids. If a child has a special need, and can't make good choices, then a parent has to work overtime to make sure he doesn't hurt other kids. He clearly has a reason to act this way. But, it's not the OP's son's problem.

I would just try to avoid this little boy for a while unless it's a special family get together. I wouldn't even have a problem saying "My son needs a break from your son... he's still recovering from the last visit".

He will outgrow this. He may never be the most loved kid at the birthday party.... but, he won't always be body slamming kids into walls. In fact, the one child I vowed to NEVER invite over to my house again just graduated high school and has a full ride scholarship to a very nice university. She also received an award for public service.

It would have been ideal to be right there during all kid interactions from the very beginning and nip that all in the bud before it slowly escalated. Even if your nephew doesn't have good interactions with other kids, he would learn how to have good ones with yours and know you'll be right there and that you will intervene. Kids like that need a ton of guidance. They don't pick up cues or hints. They need direct and clear statements (kind and firm) followed by action. They need hands on parenting.

This.... if and when you do visit again, I would just not relax. Make sure you are right there to intervene. I bet Grandma is tired. Mom isn't going to do it... so, you have to. It's a pain in the neck, but you will be happy you did it.

I'm even assuming you could think of some sort of consequense for cousin. Nothing that will offend his mom, but something that makes sense. Even if that means removing your son and playing something really fun with him.

My ex's Best friend had two girls. The little sister was brutal to my daughter. One day, My ex took my dd and the older sister to a movie. The little one said "Why can't I go?" my ex said "Because you are mean to J***, and I want her to have fun". The little one was sad... but, hey... that's how life is. However, they were all over age six, so that lesson would be lost on a three year old.

[LynnS6]

Originally Posted by 4evermom

It would have been ideal to be right there during all kid interactions from the very beginning and nip that all in the bud before it slowly escalated. Even if your nephew doesn't have good interactions with other kids, he would learn how to have good ones with yours and know you'll be right there and that you will intervene. Kids like that need a ton of guidance. They don't pick up cues or hints. They need direct and clear statements (kind and firm) followed by action. They need hands on parenting.

I get that he isn't getting that from his own parents and your mother. But he hasn't been getting it from you, either. You shouldn't have been waiting around for someone to address his behavior. I'm not trying to sound harsh. I know it's tricky with other people's kids but when they are interacting with your own it is ok to intervene and give them guidance. And when things start to go downhill, you leave.

Originally Posted by nextcommercial

if and when you do visit again, I would just not relax. Make sure you are right there to intervene. I bet Grandma is tired. Mom isn't going to do it... so, you have to. It's a pain in the neck, but you will be happy you did it.

I'm even assuming you could think of some sort of consequence for cousin. Nothing that will offend his mom, but something that makes sense. Even if that means removing your son and playing something really fun with him.

Both of these are really good advice. I don't see any harm in taking a break, but your kids will be thrown together because it's family. When they are, your one and only job is to be there with both kids, providing explicit guidance to your nephew and protecting your son.

I would add: Is there a way to get the family help? The 3 year old sounds like he has developmental delays -- if his mom was drinking when she was pregnant with him, there might be more going on than just being 3 and not getting enough attention.

Now would be a good time to have this child evaluated so that any problems he has can be addressed before he starts school. The benefit to this for grandma and his mom is that he would probably qualify for Head Start or a special needs preschool, depending on how severe his delays are. Not only would this get grandma a well deserved break, but it might help the family learn some skills for more effectively parenting him.

[nextcommercial]

I also want to add in.

I have one sister in law that would totally step in and tell me I needed to do something better. I would be offended, but I would listen to her anyway.

She is the type that would not only say "maybe you should have her evaluated".. she'd come over, we'd talk about it, and she'd probably make an appointment. Then, she'd call me and ask how the appt went.

She's the only one I'd tolerate that from. But, maybe your sister will allow you to step in for this. He is your nephew, you really want him to have a happy life.

[Linda on the move]

I think it odd that so many people jumped to the conclusion that he has special needs. All of his behavoir can be explained by poor parenting.

I have a child with sensory issues and nothing in the posts screamed "sensory stuff" to me.

I think the child needs someone to really spend time with him every day and teach him how to behave. An eval or therapy can't fix that.