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Heavy Metals in Supplements

post #1 of 15
Thread Starter 
I've only taken a quick glance at this, but I'd love to know more about it.
http://health.msn.com/medications/ar...9612&gt1=31036

I know one of the officials said that the heavy metals are at an "acceptable level", but I'm wondering what that level is? I also wonder how those levels compare to vax levels? And if they're the same type of heavy metals as in vaxes? (I'm thinking that there's probably not different strains of heavy metals, but I know so little about that...) Does anyone have any info? TIA!
post #2 of 15
Please remain focused on how this issue relates to vaccines in this forum. Discussion regarding the supplement issue should be continued in H&H.
post #3 of 15
My understanding is that these are two fairly different topics.

Some vaccines still contain mercury and for the ones that contain trace amounts, I'm not sure how well quantified or controlled that is. I've never heard of contamination with lead or any other heavy metal in vaccines. Aluminum's a light metal and is present in highly variable amounts in different vaccine formulations.

I've read that aluminum is not absorbed all that well through the digestive tract, so it's not a one-to-one comparison between the amount in a vaccine vs the amount in a day's worth of food. There have been discussions in the past on the board that linked to articles that discussed absorption of aluminum from food and what data is available on aluminum toxicity.

I don't know much about how mercury or lead are dealt with in the digestive tract.
post #4 of 15
had my reply window open when amnesiac responded... not sure if my reply is on-topic enough
post #5 of 15
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tanyalynn View Post
had my reply window open when amnesiac responded... not sure if my reply is on-topic enough
Thanks for the reply. I guess my question is mixing two topics. What if I go to the health board and they kick me off for asking about they relate to vaxes? Oh well, I guess I can give it a try.
post #6 of 15
I do know that years ago bone meal powder and supplements were suspect because both could contain lead.

L-tryptophan was taken completely off the market in the late 1980's for a batch problem; nobody died.

If you want to compare the heavy metals in supplements, I would add that no one is forcing you to give your child supplements, but plenty of health officials and doctors want to force you to vaccinate yourself and your child to the point of denying your child access to an education.

Dietary supplements are voluntary; if you think they are poison, do not buy them, do not ingest them. Your body, your choice. Furthermore, ingesting orally is not the same as having something injected. Your liver and digestive system will break down impurities more readily than your circulatory system. If you get sick from a supplement, you can stop taking it and usually your health will return shortly. This is not the same for most vaccine reactions.

So for vaccines, this is a bad comparison. If you think they are poison, there are plenty of educated, powerful people who will tell you that you are ignorant, ill-informed, stupid, uneducated, and wrong; that you should get vaccinated despite your own best judgement. Few doctors will let you know that you have a choice.

If you have a reaction, that is not from the vaccine. It is all your fault. Vaccines are good for you. If you get sick from them, there must be something wrong with you.

If you get sick from taking a supplement, the FDA will take it off the market or reduce the ADA.
post #7 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by caned & able View Post
I do know that years ago bone meal powder and supplements were suspect because both could contain lead.

L-tryptophan was taken completely off the market in the late 1980's for a batch problem; nobody died.

If you want to compare the heavy metals in supplements, I would add that no one is forcing you to give your child supplements, but plenty of health officials and doctors want to force you to vaccinate yourself and your child to the point of denying your child access to an education.

Dietary supplements are voluntary; if you think they are poison, do not buy them, do not ingest them. Your body, your choice. Furthermore, ingesting orally is not the same as having something injected. Your liver and digestive system will break down impurities more readily than your circulatory system. If you get sick from a supplement, you can stop taking it and usually your health will return shortly. This is not the same for most vaccine reactions.

So for vaccines, this is a bad comparison. If you think they are poison, there are plenty of educated, powerful people who will tell you that you are ignorant, ill-informed, stupid, uneducated, and wrong; that you should get vaccinated despite your own best judgement. Few doctors will let you know that you have a choice.

If you have a reaction, that is not from the vaccine. It is all your fault. Vaccines are good for you. If you get sick from them, there must be something wrong with you.

If you get sick from taking a supplement, the FDA will take it off the market or reduce the ADA.
Right on the money with this one, Caned.
post #8 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by caned & able View Post
L-tryptophan was taken completely off the market in the late 1980's for a batch problem; nobody died.
Actually, there were at least 37 deaths attributable to that particular incident.
post #9 of 15
Do not miss my point that it was not Ltryptophan, it was a batch problem. Would Vioxx be off the market if it was just a batch problem?

Vaccines are notorious for having hot lots and batch problems, yet, there they are still!
post #10 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto View Post
Actually, there were at least 37 deaths attributable to that particular incident.
Correct. and keep in mind, this was because of GMO. L-tryptophan got a bad rap after that, I remember watching it on the tv but nobody said anything on the news (back then) about it being genetically modified.. I only found out about this recently and was shocked. An *aha* moment.

This site says 100 people died and up to 10,000 others were disabled
post #11 of 15
Again, was that a reason to remove all L-tryptophan from the market? It is abundant in your thanksgiving turkey as a natural part of the meat, and in all protein products.

Vaccines have hot lot problems all of the time and they remain on the market; how often are the reactions reported to VAERS? - estimates range from 10-20%, very low.

I read once that it has been the custom of the vaccine industry from the beginning to not ship products of the same lot together to prevent entire communities from noting the reactions all at once. So lots and batches are spread out geographically and few people will see a pattern.
post #12 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by caned & able View Post
Again, was that a reason to remove all L-tryptophan from the market? It is abundant in your thanksgiving turkey as a natural part of the meat, and in all protein products.
No, they should have only removed the GMO product and left the other (safer) product on the market that had not caused this problems.. did they realize this was a problem with just the newer GMO product, and if not how long did it take for them to find that out? I haven't followed the story so I have no idea if this is even still on the market and if so at what year it was re introduced (the non gmo product of course)


Quote:
Originally Posted by caned & able View Post
Vaccines have hot lot problems all of the time and they remain on the market; how often are the reactions reported to VAERS? - estimates range from 10-20%, very low.
Totally right, different standards exist for vaccines. I see your point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by caned & able View Post
I read once that it has been the custom of the vaccine industry from the beginning to not ship products of the same lot together to prevent entire communities from noting the reactions all at once. So lots and batches are spread out geographically and few people will see a pattern.
Now this is disturbing. Very, very disturbing. I am not surprised but it reeks of something sinister. I mean, who is to say that some lots are not purposely contaminated with the intention of causing harm (perhaps not *death* but other illness, creating lifelong pharmaceutical customers) and the "victims" would be spread out equally throughout the country? If it is not intentional, then what motive do they have to continue this custom?

I think that should be illegal, and thats hard for me to say because I think we need less laws in the country not more lol But to purposely prevent people from finding out sooner about a "hot lot" in order to sell more product (or for whatever reason they have) even though it means more babies might die or suffer serious adverse reactions... shouldn't they be tried for manslaughter, because of this deception?
post #13 of 15
Quote:
No, they should have only removed the GMO product and left the other (safer) product on the market that had not caused this problems.. did they realize this was a problem with just the newer GMO product, and if not how long did it take for them to find that out? I haven't followed the story so I have no idea if this is even still on the market and if so at what year it was re introduced (the non gmo product of course)
It was removed immediately. All of it. Gone. Immediately. I used it as a natural sedative for insomnia as needed.

Quote:
Now this is disturbing. Very, very disturbing.
Yes. I wish I could track down the source. I know it was in an article about how mercury was introduced into vaccines in the 1930s, and autism was identified in the 1940s. I know that Marge Grant (A Stolen Life) found other parents in other states whose children developed the same problems her son had at about the same time once she started to do research; that vax from 1960 is no longer used. I recall the Money Magazine article of December 1996 that discussed vaccines; one mother discovered that her son had received an injection from a hot lot:

Quote:
Nathan was the first of nine [children] to die after shots from the same batch of DPT vaccine. It stayed on the market a full year.
(26 words)

The same article discusses the FACT that a safer DPT shot had been delayed...delayed in my estimation over 50 years as doctors knew/know how unstable the pertussis component is since their own professional journals have discussed how unstable it is since the 1940s.

Quote:
...[pertussis component] is little changed from the original crude formula introduced in the 1920s...
It was finally changed to the acellular form in the US in 1996. Other nations in the world had been using the acellular for 20 years (Japan), used it later and with better results.
post #14 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by newmum35 View Post
No, they should have only removed the GMO product and left the other (safer) product on the market that had not caused this problems.. did they realize this was a problem with just the newer GMO product, and if not how long did it take for them to find that out? I haven't followed the story so I have no idea if this is even still on the market and if so at what year it was re introduced (the non gmo product of course)
For a surpisingly readable bulletin-style history of the outbreak, see MMWRs from 1989 November 17, 24, and December 8 and 1990 January 12, February 16, May 18, and August 31.

It's pretty clear that nobody knew what was actually occurring but that all of a sudden, there were a whole lot of cases of a very unusual illness with only one thing tying them together. The first connection to a single manufacturer was published 1990 July 11. (I don't know what JAMA's publication cycle was like back then.) From the CDC authors' conclusion, "timely identification [of the real problem] may ... facilitate the return of uncontaminated tryptophan to market."

One thing perhaps worth noting is that at the (pre-DSHEA) time, it had been technically illegal to market amino acid "supplements" in the U.S. since 1973 in any event, which conceivably could have conditioned the FDA response. (Single-ingredient l-tryptophan had been available only by prescription in Canada since 1985.) DSHEA was enacted in 1994, and as such, l-tryptophan almost certainly could have been marketed at that time if reasonably expected to be safe by the manufacturer. FDA import alert 54-04 on the stuff was officially canceled in 2005 May. It seems to have started to show back up as a consumer product around 2007.

The question seems to be whether vaccines get a regulatory "free pass" as compared with supplements. I don't think the story of the l-tryptophan recall really serves to demonstrate this proposition. The supplement market was then, and is now, practically unsupervised--if anything, there's less nominal regulation nowadays. No matter how potentially or intrinsically dangerous one considers vaccines to be, I think it's hard to argue that the products themselves aren't subject to far more regular scrutiny.

I realize this is the smallest of C&A's points, the greater ones being that by comparison, nobody is trying to bully anyone into using supplements (with which I agree) and that "if you get sick from a supplement, you can stop taking it and usually your health will return shortly.... this is not the same for most vaccine reactions" (which I think is needlessly giving supplements a similar "free pass"), but this one bit has been clanging around my noggin.
post #15 of 15
Awhile back there was a thread about lead in children's vitamins and prenatals. It led me to call Nature's Plus regarding the vitamin I was giving my kids. Below is a summary of my conversation with the Research & Development person there. The gist is that they believe it is coming from the whole foods used in the vitamins.

************************************************** ************

I spoke to the head of Research and Development at Nature's Plus two days ago. Below is a summary of what he said. He spent a good deal of time on the phone with me and said to call him anytime with questions. I think I feel better about continuing to give my kids the Animal Parade vitamins for now.

*FDA randomly tested 324 products; Of these only 3 showed no lead
*The 3 that had no lead where liquids that contained no whole foods
*FDA used new technology that has not yet been validated by the agencies that validate such things
*This new equipment is said to detect lead at 10 parts per billion
*The standard equipment being used tests at 500 parts per billion
*Natures' Plus has not been able to get it's hands on this "new" equipment; not even by contracting out to test
*Following the finding that all the vitamins containing whole foods showed lead, NP did research about whole foods and lead
*Research shows that both organic and non-organic fruits and veggies test for lead; The 30 most common show 5 micrograms per serving
*Only fruits and veggies grown in greenhouses show no lead; NP has determined that it would have to double its prices to use greenhouse grown foods (they have had discussions with growers about this)
*He noted that lead levels in the air have been going down in recent years (we can only hope this continues)
*He wonders if lead in produce is not absorbed as much as say that in paint chips; he said some indication that this might be the case because it has been shown that some fiber reduces the metabolization of heavy metals including lead

I think that sums it up. Hope this info is useful to others.
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