Unschooling=a function of privledge/3rd world education - Page 3

[Piglet68]

Originally Posted by Cukup

I just am surprised to learn that sending a child to a daycare setting or another carer would be still considered US....Where is the US here? How is it being accomplished if a parent isn't there to help a child with their preferred choices? ...You're asking someone else to US your child.

Unschooling isn't something you "do" to a child. I can totally envision a daycare setting where the child is free to pursue their interests. For example, when my daughter was 3 she was totally into ladybugs. She wanted to read any and every book she could get her hands on that mentioned ladybugs, she loved drawing ladybugs, she liked going out in the garden to hunt for ladybugs. I provided her with access to books (weekly trips to the library) and art supplies and some regular outdoor time; it wasn't anything a caregiver couldn't do. Kids WILL learn, whether you are there or not, provided they are in a reasonably stimulating environment with access to information, and given the freedom to go at their own pace, in their own direction.

[triscuitsmom]

Originally Posted by Piglet68

Seems to me the issue of whether one is privileged enough to unschool is pretty much the exact same question as whether one is privileged enough to be a stay-home parent. Seems to boil down to an assumption about how much money a family needs to live on and whether both parents need to work in order to get that much money. Some families are willing to live a very frugal lifestyle to SAH/unschool. To me that means it's not an issue of privilege. It's about choices and priorities.

I don't believe there is such a thing as CAN'T unschool. People make choices, they order their priorities, and for some families other things take priority. That's okay, but it's not the same thing as "CAN'T".

ITA! One of my closest friends and I have talked about this before. I am a student WAHM of going on three children. She is a single SAHM of five children. Both of us have made choices and organized our priorities to be home with our children. It is absolutely a huge priority for us so we do what we have to do to make that work.

We both live on less money than "average" but we do it because it's what works for us. We don't judge parents who make more and spend more and do it by having both parents work... if it's working for them, it's the right choice. But it sure gets annoying to be told by those same people that they'd love to stay home but they "can't". Usually it's a choice. It's a difference in priorities. But it's not actually an unavailable option.

I am lucky to be able to be home all day with my children, and also unschooling. But it involves work and choices, and reprioritizing. I'm not monetarily wealthy by any stretch but we are doing what works best for us.

[vancouverlori]

Two years ago, at the first BC Homeschooling Convention, one of the speakers pointed this out:
*"Education" has always been the privilege of the rich and powerful*
Whether it's US, HS, or public or private school - it is an expensive privilege for children to learn anything beyond the most basic reading and "figuring". The printing press was only invented 500 years ago - who needed to learn how to read and write until 300 years ago? Leaders, rulers, landowners, lawmakers, etc. People who weren't wealthy didn't get an "education" unless they were sponsored (as artists, or priests, or whatever).

To me, US is a way to bring together the privileged education (reading, literature, mathematics, history, geography, music, etc.) with the natural way that children historically grew into their roles as adults.

Originally Posted by Cukup

...I feel I am seen ... then I'm viewed

Ahh... I'm sensing some conflict within yourself... yes? You want this, but you can't see how to get it. Do everything you can to push these concerns about what others think to the side, whenever you make important decisions in life.

Here's another "how I did it" story:
We used to have a big house, and rent out the basement. It wasn't fancy or in a nice part of town, but it was single-family and not too far from DH's work. But to make it work, we both had to work f/t. DD got sick, and couldn't manage full-time school, and she was 13, so we tried just having her do distributed learning (i.e. correspondence/online courses), and it just didn't work out. So we sold our house and bought a townhouse a bit further away (believe me, Vancouver is *craaaaaazy* in terms of housing costs). So it's less convenient, and we'll have less equity in the end. But our mortgage payments are lower, so I now work p/t evenings and weekends at a hospital, and we are careful with our money. Occasionally I get offered an extra weekday shift (when DH works), so I have another US mom who could use the spare cash look after him that day.

As for "income/education" choice/balance - it's really about budget/education balance - and budget has both an income side and an expense side. Every person has to decide for themselves what their priorities are (and don't forget that the entire marketing industry is based on making us forget we can do that!)

In terms of expense, it could be expensive, sure, but there are ways to do stuff cheap, too. (There's at least one book on the topic). We buy most of our "learning materials" at the Salvation Army, garage sales, and other thrift stores. And really, US is about every day experiences in the early stages.

Originally Posted by Cukup

So it is still US if the child hangs out with a caregiver other than a parent?

Unschooling is bigger than you're picturing. I say, the more the merrier! It really does take a village to raise a child. And I think you're also envisioning something more like a licensed *daycare* - which would be difficult to find in the school age range. And even then... Before we started our US journey, I worked f/t and DS was in a licensed daycare. When I first started reading about US, I realized that this daycare was pretty much unschooly. They believed in play-based learning, they responded to the children's interests and listened to them. They developed very close relationships with the children. And yet they had their routines, which are necessary for large groups of people of any age. But sometimes, say, if the whole group wanted to "pretend" to nap until pick-up time, that's what they did. And they had various activity areas, so kids could chose for themselves what they wanted to do.

The further we travel on this journey, the more I'm learning that a large part of US (which is really everything in life outside of the school building) is about relationships. Between yourself and your child, your children with each other, your child and other children, and whatever other caretakers they may have. Having a child in part-time or even full-time care by someone else just extends these relationships. As long as these caregivers "get" the concept, it's all good.

It is also possible to be an unschooly family but have your kids in school. Just don't put too much stock in the school part of your child's life, and the rest will follow. DD was in school f/t and then did distributed learning for a year and a half, and now is p/t in school and p/t DL, and next year will be pretty much f/t at school (with extra DL courses!). But I have always augmented her "education" with discussions, reading, cooking, hanging out, etc. And if she doesn't want to go to school because her class is just doing individual study time, that's cool with me. (Though if she doesn't "feel" like going to band class, I point out that she has a responsibility to her band-mates!) Grace Llewellyn even wrote a book for teens about this, and she called it "guerilla learning".

Originally Posted by joy_seeker

perhaps the better question would be what can we do to ensure choice and make resources available for success in the third world?

Now isn't that the billion-dollar question!

[karne]

We didn't hs/us for very long-just 2 yrs., but for us, it was an experience and lifestyle choice that involved some privledge. It wasn't the money, or how we utilized resources, but rather the fact that we had, and could afford, good medical insurance because of DH's full time, well paying, job. If we didn't have insurance, or a job that provided it, we would have needed both of us working to buy it privately. Ins. is extremely expensive to get privately!

[vancouverlori]

Originally Posted by karne

We didn't hs/us for very long-just 2 yrs.... we had, and could afford, good medical insurance because of DH's full time, well paying, job.

Oh, that makes me so sad. And mad, for the people of your country. That the powers to be maintain such an unjust status quo that limits everyone's lifestyle choices.

But thank you for reminding me of that privilege that I have - it's in the background for me (even though I work in the medical system), and I often forget to count the blessing that is universal health care here.

I should also clarify my post above: when I say we're careful with our money, I didn't mean we're totally strapped. I have a very expensive singing hobby that involves yearly international travel and travel and the like, and I work partly to afford that, because it brings me so much joy. DH is obsessed with computers (there are more of them than people in this house), and while he buys everything he can 2nd hand, re-uses discarded computers from work and buys the least expensive thing that will do the job, it's still an expense. But we don't go on "vacations", or have nice vehicles, or fancy furniture. It's all about priorities and what *works* for your family. I have to admit that if I had to choose between staying home with my son and singing, I have a feeling that I would choose the singing.

[karne]

Originally Posted by vancouverlori

Oh, that makes me so sad. And mad, for the people of your country. That the powers to be maintain such an unjust status quo that limits everyone's lifestyle choices.

But thank you for reminding me of that privilege that I have - it's in the background for me (even though I work in the medical system), and I often forget to count the blessing that is universal health care here.

It's true, it was a big consideration, esp. having a child w/a chronic condition.

[Piglet68]

Originally Posted by vancouverlori

Oh, that makes me so sad. And mad, for the people of your country. That the powers to be maintain such an unjust status quo that limits everyone's lifestyle choices.

Thankfully, that's not something we think about much here. I'm still baffled as to why it was such a controversial issue in the US.

(Sorry to go OT but I was as struck by it as Lori when I read that...)

[jillc512]

Originally Posted by Annoia

For me, I have a way of life happens to coincide (for the most part, but not completely) with the definition of unschooling (tho' I prefer community-based learning when thinking about the education aspect of things). I didn't fit my life into the definition of unschooling.

I'm not quite sure how I would outsource my way of life.

And I am pretty sure the other adults in my children's lives don't consider themselves as "unschooling" my kids. They spend time with them, develop relationships, and generally have a pretty good time just living daily life with them.

Yeah that. HS/US for us is very much a total lifestyle for us. And I like what you said about your life happening to match most closely with unschooling vs. the other way around. To me, this is like the argument of whether unschoolers can use textbooks -- it totally misses the point.

Re: health insurance -- I used to work more in order to have insurance for our family. Now, though, we just have catastrophic insurance, which costs us $180 a month. We have to pay the first $5000 out of pocket, then half of the next $5000. Our old insurance cost us over $600 a month, so it hasn't taken very long to save up $ in our HSA to cover the occasional doctor or dentist visit (and our recent homebirth ), plus a cushion to cover that deductible should something more expensive come up. Sorry to get so technical, but just wanted to throw that out as a viable option for many who feel they have to work for the insurance (this becomes less viable if you have extensive monthly medical expenses, obviously). It's truly all about priorities!