Anyone had any luck getting public schools to stop recruiting for Boy Scouts?

[CallMeMommy]

I've been stewing but have been afraid to post anything because of the potential fallout, but here goes: Last month DS (in kindy) comes home with a Boy Scout info packet and signup sheet. Only problem is we're not welcome in Boy Scouts, so I get to explain to my sobbing 5-year-old that yes, it sounds like lots of fun, but no we can't join. The more I thought about it the more it ticked me off - it's against the law in Minnesota to discriminate based on religion, yet the public school is supporting exactly that. I don't think they should be handing out that stuff in school and want them to stop - has anyone done anything like this before?

[SleeplessMommy]

Are you not welcome there because of religion or some other factor? I had hear the won't give the religion badge to UU's ... because UU does not require belief in god, but I had not heard of them specifically excluding based on faith/non-faith. Though I would totally believe it if they did

I am very disappointed, of course, by their position on gays. Too bad because my kid would enjoy the program.

[CallMeMommy]

They specifically exclude gays, atheists, secular humanists, UU, and a couple of others I'm forgetting. We're excluded because of religion.

[LittleBattleAxe]

[URL="http://navigatorsusa.ning.com[/URL]

[URL="http://www.spiralscouts.org[/URL]


These links are looking odd up there for some reason, but NavigatorUSA (NOT to be confused with Navigator US, which is a Christian evangelical group), and SpiralScouts offer nonreligious alternatives to Cub Scouts/Boy Scouts.


I was not thrilled with Boy Scouts campaigning at the public schools back when I had kids in kindie but I guess it sort of went off my radar since then... still, if one of these other scouting organizations is in your area, I would bet the school would be happy to accommodate an info booth.

[winwin]

I was shocked by this post. I looked up Scouts Canada and their web site claims they are multicultural and include all religions. Am I missing something? It doesn't mention homosexuality at all.

Just found this info:

8. Does Scouts Canada admit both boys and girls?
Yes. Scouts Canada has had completely co-ed programs since 1998.

9. Do you have to believe in God to join Scouts Canada? Is Scouting a Christian organization?
No, but you must have a basic spiritual belief. Spirituality has been one of the three main principles of Scouting around the world since its inception 100 years ago. Scouts Canada welcomes members of many different faiths and denominations; we are proud of our commitment to diversity. That said, you need not belong to an organized religion, but all leaders and youth must take the Scout Promise in good faith, and leaders should be able to include some form of spirituality in their program for the youth.“God” is the word in the Promise used to represent spirituality, and for some may represent an actual deity, but it may also mean to your family an expression of your personal spirituality.
"Duty to God" as defined by the World Organization of the Scouting Movement, means "a person's relationship with the spiritual values of life, the fundamental belief in a force above mankind."

10. Are homosexuals allowed to join Scouts Canada?
Scouts Canada does not discriminate for reasons of gender, culture, religious belief (see above) or sexual orientation.

So maybe it's different in the U.S.

[Marsupialmom]

One issue that schools will have is they have to either allow them or not allow all organizations to send "recruit" information.

[TiredX2]

Originally Posted by Marsupialmom

One issue that schools will have is they have to either allow them or not allow all organizations to send "recruit" information.

I don't think this *can* be true. Would schools have to allow a Aryan Nation group to present? How about NAMBLA? There obviously have to be some groups that are not allowed.

[phathui5]

Schools can exclude whatever groups they want (though I don't think NAMBLA is a good example, since they they're promoting is illegal).

OP, you could try writing a letter to the school. I'm not sure how far you'll get, as a lot of troops actually meet at schools. If you do bring it up, make sure you offer an alternative program that doesn't discriminate.

[SleeplessMommy]

Originally Posted by winwin

So maybe it's different in the U.S.

YES! Boy Scouts USA will not allow gay scout leaders or scouts. So a boy could grow up in scouting, self-identify as gay as a teenager and be asked to leave. Boys who are UU or atheist can join, but they probably can't earn Eagle Scout (the highest level of award).

[7thDaughter]

Long post but I've given lots of thought to these issues. There are ways kids can do scouting with other organizations as pps have said. One of my Eagle brothers has two girls, so he leads in a co-ed church organization called "Royal Rangers." Your child can enjoy scouting-type activities through other organizations.

The Boy Scout Oath includes simply "A Scout is reverent." How he expressed his reverence is up to him and his family. UUism is non-creedal and a UU individual's faith can be expressed in many ways. There are Christian UUs, Buddist UUs, ad infinitum. So my understanding is that there is no reason a UU boy cannot complete the program and reach Eagle, unless he professes no reverence or spiritual life. Most troops and their leaders are interested in providing boys with a good program; they're not interested in policing faith!

There are religious badges or pins the boys can earn if they want to. There used to be a UU one but there was a parting of spirit between BSA and UU HQ, so no more UU badge. This has been very distressing for UU scouting families caught in the middle.

My family has been in/around Boy Scouting for generations. We've got Catholic, fundamentalist Christian, liberal Christian, and UU relatives. I've got something like 15 Eagle Scouts closely related to me. My observation is that many/most boys complete the program thinking in the teen-aged way, "Yeah, I think I kinda believe in something, sorta, I guess it's God, but I'm not exactly sure what, but maybe someday I'll figure it out." Ask a teen boy "Are you reverent?" and he'll say, "I guess so." So give the boy good role models, give him room to figure out his spiritual values as he grows, and a simple belief that there is Order in the Universe is a pretty good start, for a teen. IMHO.

One of my nephews declared himself atheist and refused to complete his Eagle. It was his own choice. But his parents never gave him any spiritual foundation. That was their choice. Mom was disappointed but she'd never taught him about faith, and she was a Gold Star Girl Scout herself. ???

Some troops may focus more on the religious part, I don't know. I've heard non-LDS boys don't fit in with an LDS troop for those reasons. One Catholic nephew tried but felt excluded and found a more welcoming troop to be part of. Most non-LDS troops try to be faith-inclusive. I kind of like what our Scoutmaster does, he closes the meeting with "May the Great Scoutmaster of all Scouts young and old, be with us on the trail of life." Male oriented and non-denominational, it's a pretty good compromise for a boy's program.

Re the exclusion of gays, DH thinks it will change, but it will take another generation. He thinks homophobia became entrenched when BSA was struggling to survive in the 60's-70's when membership plunged and they chose to bind themselves to the conservative Right, who were the only demographic still actively supporting traditional values (and the idea of kids hiking in uniforms). Before that it wasn't on the radar as an issue.

For those families caught in the middle, we have to decide to leave until it changes, or stay and encourage the change to occur. If we leave, the program is carried by right-wingers and will not change. So we stay until the boy chooses to leave, and DH works with the program to improve it.

[Carrie Posey]

Our school will not allow boy scouts. They don't get to pass out info or meet at our school, so it is possible to stop it.

[Vermillion]

We're a scouting family, with both DH & I being leaders.

We have all sorts of people from all different religious and spiritual backgrounds in our pack. We’re more concerned about creating a good program for the boys than policing people’s personal beliefs! In fact, in our pack, I have not seen a religious issue come up yet! Of course this may vary greatly from pack to pack, or in different regions, but where I’m from things like this are a non issue.

As for gays being excluded, this really seems to be changing and there is a lot more tolerance than I thought there would be when I first joined! I think for this to change, it has to change from the inside, and I believe that it will with some work, and the organization will continue to grow with the changing times.

One more thing, UU is definitely not excluded. In fact there are religious awards that can be earned by UU scouts through the Unitarian-Universalist Scouters Organization & BSA's religious emblem program.

[green betty]

doh!

[green betty]

Good luck to you with the school, OP. I think that's a battle worth fighting, personally--it's disgusting that an organization that discriminates against members of our society based on personal belief or sexual orientation is allowed to recruit through public schools.

I once mentored a boy in my UU Sunday school class for his Religion in Life badge. He earned it just before the BSA clamped down on UUs... and they then took AWAY the badge he had already earned! Revolting. We then looked further at the BSA policies around gay people and secular humanists who don't frame their world view in spiritual terms... it provided a good opportunity for the whole congregation to learn why justice-loving people who embrace diversity don't belong in the Boy Scouts. I now live in Canada, and while the Boy Scouts here are definitely less discriminatory than the American organization, they still don't measure up to the moral standards of our family.

[minkajane]

XH was an Eagle Scout (or would have been if he hadn't put off turning in his paperwork, since he finished all the requirements and was too lazy to turn in the forms), but DS will not be in the scouts. For one thing, we're Pagan and I don't feel we're welcome, even if they did allow UUs. For another, I'm bisexual and I strongly disagree with their stance against homosexuality, which is largely based on the disgusting false belief (which unfortunately is still portrayed as fact by many biased groups like BSA) that homosexuals are much more likely to be pedophiles and molest children that heterosexuals.

[wytchywoman]

OP, I'm not sure if this would help or not but the school my younger son attends has a policy that nothing will be sent home. They have a carousel type filing thingie that organizations can place flyers in. If parents are interested in extracurricular activities they can stop by the office and pick up a flyer. This way the kids don't necessarily see flyers for something that looks interesting to them but would not be allowed by the family, and the families who are interested would have the opportunity to get the information if they wanted to. I also agree about Spiral Scouts. My sons never wanted to do that but I looked into and it looks like it would be a lot of fun.

[spedteacher30]

the current iteration of NCLB specifically requires that the Boy Scouts be granted access to public schools--even if the school has a non-discrimination policy and does not allow other discriminatory groups. thankfully, scouting is not big in our city, and the scouts that do exist are all church-affiliated and don't recruit in the public schools.

[Carrie Posey]

Our school does not allow the boy scouts, it happened before we started there, but I must say I am glad.

[bcgamermom]

Is scouts different in the states then it is in Canada? We're pagan and my son is in beavers, he just say's a modified pledge leaving out the I promise to follow god part and no one has ever questioned it.
I've known his leader for most of my life and she knows how I feel about the church, in fact I'm pretty sure she feels the same way.
maybe not all troops are the same?

[lifeguard]

Scouting is different in each country. Generally they all belong to a larger umbrella international organization but within their own organizations their programs & set up can be quite different.

This is the same for Girl Guides/Scouts - different for each country.