Argh! How do you persuade your child to go to sleep?!?!?

[Hokulele]

OK, I should know better, in the past 5 years I've read so many books on sleep my head is spinning.

DD is almost 5. She has always had sleep troubles. These days our issue is that she just won't let herself fall asleep. It is almost 10pm right now and she's upstairs singing to herself, playing with her bunny, getting out of bed every five minutes to say "Mommy, come snuggle me" or "I'm hungry" etc etc.

HOW CAN I MAKE IT STOP???

If she lets herself relax, she does fall asleep well, but the issue is persuading her to let herself relax. We've tried everything I can think of. I get desparate because she has to be up early for school. So when she doesn't sleep our entire day can fall apart the next day due to her exhaustion.

[phathui5]

Could you sit with her (next to the bed) in the dark and tell her some peaceful stories? Talk about things she can dream about.

You could try giving her a mini-massage at bedtime (with her eyes closed).

Is she having a bedtime snack? That could help deal with the "I'm hungries." At least, when she comes out asking for food, you can say "No, you just had a snack."

[One_Girl]

When my dd did this I tell her she doesn't have to sleep but she does need to lie quietly in bed the first time and good night the rest of the time. It got to the point where I had to move her out of my room when she was that age and get firm about laying down and not talking to me because she started trying all kinds of things to get me to interact with her so she could stay awake, then she would squirm and kick when I told her to be quiet. Once I stopped interacting and keeping my answers short she started sleeping better again.

[Ornery]

My 6 yo dd has fought sleep for years. She plays in her bed, gets up a million times for drinks, to tell us she loves us, for hugs and kisses, etc. Since she and my 4 yo ds share a room, she often keeps him awake too. It has been so frustrating.

We've always listened to books on CD in the car or in the living room but I finally bought a cheap CD player for their room. They lay down and listen for a 1/2 hour and both fall asleep during it. It is amazing. She doesn't get up once. I am crossing my fingers that it will last!

[velochic]

I feel your pain. My dd is 8 now and has never been a good sleeper. When she was small, her sleep cycle was 38 minutes long. I would nurse her to sleep for a nap, then every 37 minutes, go back in to lay down with her and nurse her back to sleep, otherwise she would wake up completely and not go back to sleep. She dropped all naps at 2.5, but nursed to sleep still until 3.5.

It's been 8 hard years and continues. It has gotten better. Dd still co-sleeps, still needs someone to lay down with her to sleep. Still doesn't want to go to sleep (then wakes up with dark circles under her eyes). For the past few years she's used the excuse of reading to "get herself tired". Reading gets *me* tired, but she seems to be able to read for an hour or more before she wants to put it down and try to sleep. I end up falling asleep before her.

Honestly, I just had to let it go. I stopped saying, "Still your body" (when she fidgeted), stopped saying, "Go to sleep", "Stop talking", etc. She *still* goes to bed at 8:30p and *still* doesn't go to sleep until 10pm. If she goes to bed later, she stays up later. That's an improvement. When younger, it took her 2 or 3 hours to go to sleep... no matter what time she went to bed. If I put her to bed at 7pm, she went to sleep at 10pm, if I put her to bed at 9pm, she went to sleep at 11 or 12. I finally just let it go.

Now, I just don't bother trying to get her to sleep. I let her sleep in as long as she wants on weekends. She sleeps about 9 hours during the week and about 12 or 13 hours on weekends. I'm lucky that she is a very even-keeled child that has never had meltdowns, so sleep never affected her personality, thankfully.

My only advice is to just let it go and when school starts maybe she'll self-adjust. Maybe let a few days fall apart and talk to her and reason that her days wouldn't fall apart if she slept enough. She's old enough to reason with. Good luck and

[beachbaby]

What about a relaxation script? We do a basic one with DD who is 4--Just have her lie on her back...talk her through relaxing the parts of her body starting with her toes and work your way up. Do 3 belly breaths to start and to end. We've had really good luck using it to help DD calm down before bedtime.

[claras_mom]

My oldest does the same thing. If I want her to sleep fairly quickly, I lay down with her and interact fairly minimally (actually, if I'm laying down in the dark any time in the evening, I'm likely to conk out! ). Otherwise, so long as she's quiet and in her bed (her baby sister sleeps a first shift in the same room), I don't try to "make" her sleep.

One thing that does seem to settle her down is telling her stories--mostly short, because the strategy of talking her to sleep by making them long didn't work well--about my growing up years.

[Hokulele]

Oh wow - velochic! You and I have the same DD. Everything you said about your daughter and sleep is the same for us... except that it DOES affect DD's personality.

I used to let it go and just let her sleep in in the mornings. But now she has to wake for preschool three mornings a week and those mornings are a nightmare. And if she's tired then by the time I pick her up from preschool she's a disaster. We've had several awful (and embarassing) pick ups from school when she has had full meltdowns but there is nothing I can do at that point until she's had some rest.

[IntrovertExtrovert]

My son (4) usually prefers to be snuggled to sleep. What works for us is telling him that I'm available to snuggle him to sleep as long as he can be still and quiet. If he's not willing to be still and quiet, then I sit in the chair near his bed and read my book.

Would you be willing to stay in there with her while she falls asleep? I "get" that this may only work for me because I have only one kiddo to get to sleep.

Or what about letting her listen to quiet, calming music while she's falling asleep, again, only as long as she's able to be still and quiet?

Or fun bedtime "exercises" that are really relaxation exercises like calming yoga poses?

One thing that helps for us is to make the time before bedtime a lower-energy period. We gently discourage dancing, jumping, etc. right before bedtime and encourage card games, books, etc.

[Hokulele]

Oh thank you thank you everyone who responded. I guess I already knew that she needs me there when she's going to sleep, but it helps to have you all repeat it.

What about if my presence is an excuse for her to stay awake? Sometimes it feels that way. Sometimes it feels like leaving her alone for a while is better - it changes daily so I feel like we're being very inconsistant.

Also, I have an almost two year old who needs me at bedtime. I still nurse her down and she can take an hour to fall asleep and will not 1. go into her crib until she is asleep or 2. fall asleep next to me in bed (too exciting maybe?) so I have to rock her in the glider rocker. This, of course, leaves me no time for my older DD.

The baby will not go to sleep for DH. If he holds her at bedtime she acts like she's being tortured. So that's not an option.

DH is resistant to anything I suggest to him about helping the girls fall asleep. I guess what I'm realizing is that I need to have another conversation with DH about how to help DD1 fall asleep each night.

[claras_mom]

Doing it with two children is definitely more difficult; your dh does have to be on board for it.

OP, is the almost two year old you refer to the baby or do you have three? I only ask because my 14 mo baby does yell when dh takes her, but I sometimes think it's because she knows that it really really is time for sleeping. He rocks her and sometimes takes her for a drive or a walk.

I think that at almost five, your daughter could be going through a transitional phase--certainly feels that way with dd1, who is almost 5.5. Sometimes she will fall asleep, or at least stay quietly in bed, very easily; other times not. So I take it day-by-day; I think it's more important to be alert to the nuances of the moment than to stay absolutely consistent. There was a period, not so many months ago, where I really did have to lay down with her. Now, while it's what she prefers, she doesn't seem to have the same absolute need for it.

I've also found that while I want her to settle down and sleep, sometimes if I'm there with her, snuggling in the dark, she'll share things that she might not otherwise. In other words, sometimes she's not sleeping because there's something on her mind.

I remember going through a period, as a child--maybe a little older; 6 or 7--where I couldn't sleep. My brain would race and it would seem as if I was awake for hours, even though I was tired. So I'm sensitive to that with dd1.

Sometimes if dd2 absolutely won't go down without nursing, the three of us will snuggle in the bed. Dh comes in once it's quiet and peels the baby off the bed and tucks her into her crib.

[Hokulele]

Clara's mom - thank you for your comments. I only have two kids :-) so I refer to the almost two year old as the baby!

You make a good point about lying down with DD1 and maybe finding out something is on her mind. I'll have to keep that idea in my head so I am sensitive to that.

And I really like that you pointed out that your 14 m old will yell when DH holds her because it is really really bedtime. Maybe that is part of the issue with us. Funnily enough, DH is rocking DD2 right now (I asked him to hold her because it felt like I'd been nursing for hours and I just need a break before I go nuts!) She isn't screaming at all!! This might be a first!!

[lucysmom]

I think age is a very large part of this. It just does (usually -- apologies to the mom of an 8 year old still struggling with going to sleep) get better as they get older.

My DD is now 5 3/4. Until about a year ago, same story as your DD. We always co-slept & it just took a very very very long time for her to get used to going to sleep by herself. Now it just isn't as big a deal to her, but it has been a long gradual adjustment.

I second a PP's audio book recommendation. That has been a lifesaver for me. She will much more readily let me go to listen to a story.

I bet in a year you will be writing this same sort of comment to someone else -- wait! It will get better.

Good luck ...

[IntrovertExtrovert]

Originally Posted by velochic

Still doesn't want to go to sleep (then wakes up with dark circles under her eyes).

Velochic, I apologize for sticking my nose in your business, but do you think there's a chance she might have food allergies contributing to her sleep problems? Dark circles under the eyes can actually be an allergy sign. Google "allergy shiners"

[JSerene]

Here's what worked for us: I read our dd The Sleep Fairy by Janie Peterson, then copied what the parents in the book did for thier kids. Basically, we pretend there's a sleep fairy and if the child lies still (I give her a countdown to get settled 1..2..3..4..5) the sleep fairy will come and put a small gift under her pillow in the morning. (she know's it's pretend)

Yes, it's basically bribery. But, it got my dd to realize that if she would just hold still and close her eyes for a few minutes, she'd go to sleep. We used the sleep fairy every night for a few weeks and then stopped. Now she only needs it on rare occasions.

The sleep fairy presents are small. Usually my dh or I will make her something (like a paper doll, or we'll cut out scraps of fabric into nice shapes, etc). When I come across things day to day I tuck them away as sleep fairy gifts (temporary tatoos, stickers, or whatever).

[velochic]

Originally Posted by IntrovertExtrovert

Velochic, I apologize for sticking my nose in your business, but do you think there's a chance she might have food allergies contributing to her sleep problems? Dark circles under the eyes can actually be an allergy sign. Google "allergy shiners"

She's already been tested, tested, tested (since she was just a few months old), and while she doesn't have food allergies, she has food intolerances and we are completely on top of it. She's been on a modified Feingold diet since she was eating solids (and yes, I had to be on the same diet when BF until she weaned herself at about 3.5yo). Believe it, we know all of the ins and outs of food problems. And yes, when she goes to a BD party and can have all the junk she can't have otherwise, she ends up scratching all night and can't sleep restfully. Thanks, though!

[MammaG]

WHat's your routine with her like, OP? I thought for a long time that my kids were TERRIBLE sleepers...TERRIBLE! Both big boys were still co-sleeping with us mostly when the baby arrived last November and something had to change. We were bringing the kids upstairs around 8 or 8:30 and spent the nexthour to two hours reading or watching a movie with them....it was exhausting.

Then I started to look at homeschool plans for next year and rediscovered Waldorf. One of the Waldorf rhythm suggestions is to get the kids in bed early and make a routine that soothes and eases the mind. The suggestion was to get kids in bed by 7 and asleep no later than 7:30. Yeah, right!

Well, I decided to give it a go. We declared that after dinner was 'quiet time' at our house. They could play quietly or have a tub. At 7, we go upstairs with a lighted candle and the kids get into bed (either ours or theirs). We read a story, tell some rhymes (Wee Willy Winkie, Goodnight Moon, etc). I rub their hands and temples with a lavender balm or rub their backs for a minute or two. We say a prayer, I sing them a lullaby and it's lights out. I tell them that I will come back in 10 minutes and if there has been no talking but they are still awake, I will tell another story...which I follow through with always.

But, you know, those kids go to sleep in about 5 minutes most nights now! It's amazing. For the first time in years I'm awake after the kids!

Sometimes we need to move things around a bit. If the baby is fussy, I might need to nurse and DH does the prayer and story....he's a bit more businesslike than I am about the whole thing, but it still works. If they fall asleep in our bed, he transfers them to their own beds right after they fall asleep.

We still usually get one or the other (or both, which makes for one FULL bed) back in with us in the night, but they are SO MUCH happier and better rested and so am I.

Getting DH on board was a little tough at first....he was inclined to think they were being manipulative and lose his temper with them about sleep, but once he'd seen how well it was working for me, he definately was more willing to do 'the routine'.

My boys are nearly 6, 4 and 6 months.

ETA we also welcome the Sleep Fairy to our house, but she doesn't bring presents, she merely watches over the boys and they know she's been there when they wake in the morning and find her magic sleep dust in the corners of their eyes.

Hope you figure out how to help her sleep. Good luck.

[Wolfcat]

Originally Posted by Hokulele

OK, I should know better, in the past 5 years I've read so many books on sleep my head is spinning.

DD is almost 5. She has always had sleep troubles. These days our issue is that she just won't let herself fall asleep. It is almost 10pm right now and she's upstairs singing to herself, playing with her bunny, getting out of bed every five minutes to say "Mommy, come snuggle me" or "I'm hungry" etc etc.

HOW CAN I MAKE IT STOP???

If she lets herself relax, she does fall asleep well, but the issue is persuading her to let herself relax. We've tried everything I can think of. I get desparate because she has to be up early for school. So when she doesn't sleep our entire day can fall apart the next day due to her exhaustion.

DS has always had sleep problems as well. The best thing to do is establish a routine and set up rules. (such as, you don't have to sleep, but you do have to lay quietly)

The problem is, there is nothing short of drugs that will make a child sleep. When DS is older I am planning on teaching him meditation techniques, since that helps me with my own insomnia.

[BreatheMama]

Ya, I feel ya on this. For me at bedtime it's the repetitive calling out "mmmmooooommmm" and "I can’t find my pony", "I want a different blanket", "water" etc...

I also agree with the bedtime snack, which has helped. Because I was allowing her to get up and eat oatmeal or some nights in bed , So now I offer "last call before the kitchen closes" about 30min before bedtime.

My dd is still really tired in the early afternoons and usually takes a nap, some days I wake her up if its longer than 2 hours or getting far past 3pm. Could anyone share experiences with letting go of the nap and improved night sleep?

[Surfer Rosa]

DD is almost 5 and just in the last month has (a) started sleeping through the night...most of the time, and (b) falling asleep on her own...most of the time. I *never* thought this would happen! She has always been needy at night, so I feel your pain.

I think pre-emptively giving her a snack is a great idea. We recently added stories on CD/my ipod and that has helped immensely. After books/snuggles, we put on a story and lie with her for a bit, and then let ehr know we're going to make dinner/fold laundry, whatever it is, and that we'll be back to check on her in a bit, and she happily waves us off. Listening to something seems to distract her enough that she lets herself fall asleep. We've also kind of coached in learning how to relax and unwind, and this seems to help too. I have noticed her mood has notciable improved as well too. Bad nights = TERRIBLE next days.

I hope the same for you!