Dealing with other parents

[bunnybartlett]

My daughters are 8 and 4. They have started playing with the kids down the block in the last couple months. This family has always been there but it took another little girl my oldest plays with to introduce her to their son who is 7. After they had been playing non stop for several days. Always at my house. He asks can his little brother(also 4)come over and play with my youngest. So the mother walks him down and they play...with lots of supervision they constantly are arguing and bickering. I walk him home and exchange phone numbers. Since then she walks him down almost daily...the husband too...and will leave him in the yard without ringing the doorbell to ask me or even tell me he's there. She is a stay at home mom with a 15 month old and a 15 yr old as well. My oldest will tell me now when she is coming down the street and sometimes I meet her halfway and tell her now is not a good time...mealtime is coming or I have to get ready for work. Sometimes my 4 yr old has had enough of playdate and will cry when he comes.."I don't want to play!" She will leave both her kids at my house for 6 hours at a time and not check on them or call or have them come home for lunch. They will say I am hungry...I have fed snacks and lunches...my kids have been at her house a total of twice. Both times for about an hour. Both times I have told her my daughter(4) would like a chance to play at your sons house. She says she is tired of sharing her toys and would like to play with his.The seven year old said one day when I told him the 4 yr old could not come over "My mother says if my 4 yr old is outside and his brother can not come over he can't either" Today he came over and asked my oldest if she could play. I said "sure" then he asked if his brother could come over and my 4 was in a mood and we were right in the middle of a "thing" and I said "not right now" So he went home and came back and said his mother said "If your brother can't play then you can't either because it's NOT FAIR!"
C'mon now I believe the littles need shorter scheduled playdates...for the most part. Believe me I am very laid back and flexible but who leaves their 4 yr old in someones front yard and walks away! The big kids can ride their bikes up and down the road and play with minimal input from me~and my little one plays very nicely while I get things done around they house but when he is over they are having an issue every ten minutes! Shouldn't siblings be allowed to have separate friends?

Opinions????

[pbjmama]

Why don't you ask the mom about it? Sounds like you don't really know her, is it possible the child just made it up or gave you an incorrect version of what mom said?

As far as the other behaviors, sounds like you are not enjoying these interactions. I would make some rules and stick to them. Mine would be kids go home for meal times - if nothing else to eat a bite and check in with their parents. Also, if I find a child has been left with out my knowledge the child is sent/walked home immediately. For neighbors there could be a good visual system like a green or red paper hung in the window to let them know if it is a good time to play.

[bunnybartlett]

I do enjoy

the kids having friends over....I do wish the parents would check to see if it's ok first. We are talking about a 4 yr old here...left without speaking to me first. Once, the father asked my 4 yr old if she could play and left him. I cannot just send him home he has to be walked! If I am in the middle of something it is just very inconvenient. Why wouldn't she just call first or ring the bell when she gets here. To be honest I don't think she wants to give me the chance to say no...wants a place to dump her kids. I have sent them home at mealtimes ALOT> I just don't understand...if your kid left home at 11am and it is almost 5pm...and he is 4...wouldn't you wonder if he has had lunch? She has never thanked me or asked if they have eaten or if they behaved themselves for 6 hours or anything! He still needs his butt wiped so in my opinion that is not old enough for an all day playdate without a parent.

[PGTlatte]

I have been living with a kind-of-similar neighbor situation for four years now - except in my case it's not a little kid, it's a child 1 year older than our oldest. I wish I had nipped it in the bud from the beginning. It would have been so much easier and saved me so much stress over the years.

IMO you need to make it very clear to her at the earliest opportunity that your kids are not always available to play; and that sometimes the older one will want to but the younger one will not want to and is therefore unavailable to play with the younger one and that is her situation to deal with, not yours; and that you do not want her young one dropped off in your yard without first being asked about it; that you are not going to feed her kids meals or give toileting assistance; and that when the playdate is no longer working for you, her older child needs to walk her younger child home because you are not going to.

Over the years my neighbor has been very pushy and demanding and basically acted like our oldest is there for her convenience whenever her son is bored or she wants him out of her hair. She gets manipulative and if that doesn't work, nasty, when she wants to have her son over here or wants mine over there and I won't agree to immediately accommodate her. I have also dealt with a kid who shows up in the morning uninvited and expects to stay all day and be given meals, snacks and juice; who invites himself to lunch or dinner, and even asks in a very demanding way to come with us when we have plans to go somewhere. I have had to coach our oldest not to tell this kid when we have plans to go somewhere because he will not only invite himself along, he will go home and tell his parents he is coming with us before it has even been mentioned to me. For us it turned out to be a "give an inch, they will take a mile" kind of situation, and I truly regret not having dealt with it with all the firmness it took at the beginning. I am having to do it now and building up those boundaries now is so hard. Stop it now.

[bunnybartlett]

thanks laundry so much!

I fear you are right...I have to have the conversation I am dreading. To me it feels like bringing up things that should be good parenting common sense!

I think what happens...is I will say the younger one can't play, if my little one doesn't want to, or is snacking or whatever. Sometimes I am not up for the arguing! Then she will see her in the yard playing with her sister and the older boy. It's not that I am excluding him....the two bigger kids could go down to his house....but neither of her kids ever want to play at their own house. She has never called to invite my kids to her house.
I think I would be willing to say "yes" more often if the playdates were planned and had a finite end. Even when I send them home for lunch they will be back within the hour and then will stay till I send them home at dinnertime. She has never called or come to get them without me sending them. My husband is home with the kids 3 nights a week when I work. One night he had a campfire and they were over and he waited to see if they would come for them, it was after 9pm and pitch dark(this was early spring) and they never did...
it boggles my mind. Since you have had experience what would you suggest? A couple hours a day....in the afternoon between lunch and dinner. My husband is fed up and says they have to go home on the nights that I work. I have never lived with a routine is the problem. We just fly by the seat of our pants. Dinnertime is predictable but the rest of the day isn't.

For what it's worth we have a couple neighbor girls that ask to stay for dinner or spend the night. I tell them it is polite to wait to be invited.

[PGTlatte]

I tried the angle of getting the neighbor mom to set up the playdates in advance instead of literally demanding them immediately with no prior notice. What that turned into was her repeatedly asking for me to commit to a regular time every day during the summer when our son would be available. Seriously. That was her version of scheduling playdates in advance. When I would not commit to a time each day she would call my cell phone each day and say "well when are you going to be home/done/etc ? J is expecting to play." If I don't answer the phone, he shows up at our house.

I do not owe this family child care services but that is how both parents and the teenage sister who sometimes ends up "babysitting" her brother all act towards me. I would avoid starting a situation of previously agreed-upon playtimes with someone like this because she will probably attempt to turn it into some sort of regular obligation for you. My position now is that we are available when we are, and not when we are not. I refuse to commit to anything because I am in no way obligated to.

The only reasons I did not get way more unpleasantly assertive about all this along the way are that our son really likes theirs and values his friendship; and we cannot walk to our neighborhood park without going past their house. But it has all been a painful source of stress for me that has often wrecked our peace in our home and has been going on for years. And not just me - we had some other neighbors sell their house and buy another in a nearby neighborhood just to get away from this family, because they had no peace in their home at all. But in their case, their kids wanted away from it as much as the parents did. If our son didn't want this child for a friend, I would deal with the whole situation more severely . Although I am having to get pretty severe about it now.

The only thing that has helped here is scheduling a solid week or two of daily activities outside of our house that take up a large part of the day that these visits are happening at (last year it was two weeks of morning swimming lessons right after the summer break began, followed by lunch out and a trip to a park, then a little shopping...and taking the long way home) so that the son/his parents are forced to find another solution for him for, because if we are home when they are looking for a situation for him, his insistence about being here is completely disruptive, and we become their solution and there is no getting away from it.

The other thing I've had to adopt is a sign I put on our front door. We are homeschooling but not always done by the time the school bus lets the neighbor kids off in the afternoon (because we get started late, because I have a little one and some days that's how it goes) and it was completely disruptive to have neighbor kids automatically expecting to play here at 3 pm each day. The sign says "school in session - please don't knock". Our son has come to understand that when the sign is on the door, it doesn't matter who knocks, he is not free. I am planning to homeschool through the summer and will be using the sign to establish some boundaries for some time in our own home undisturbed each day. Homeschooling is my own excuse but we are all entitled to some peace in our own homes, and I think someone who is not homeschooling could also perhaps use a sign on the door.

I have also pretty much put a ban on this child playing inside our house because once he comes in all boundaries just melt away and he will demandingly ask for and insist on anything. So play needs to be out front. Now when he asks for something (generally he sends my kids in to ask for him), he gets a Dixie cup of water. I tell him he will have to go home for anything else. When my own kids need to eat or want to drink anything except water, I have them come in alone and shut the door while they have it - I say "they will be back in a few minutes." I never thought I would end up doing this sort of thing but over years I've learned there is nothing this child and his parents won't come to expect. His parents are truly okay with him being gone for hours and hours on end and asking for food and drink and even expecting meals from other people's houses. (BTW if this was a situation of the family being in financial need, I would not be so bugged by this - but this is just a case of his parents wanting to stick him with someone else.) I have to set up firm boundaries with him for whatever I want the normal expectation to be, because if I don't, the expectations of him and his parents will become ridiculous.

The other thing that has to happen sometimes is that DH or I tell him "DS1 cannot play right now, sorry" and shut the door. I have even had to shut the door on the teenage sister attempting to make it impossible for me to say no (by making my own kid want to play right then). I have had to deal with my own kid being upset with me for up to an hour for doing this - and have had activities we were doing in our home get completely disrupted and wrecked - from those daily knocks on the door. But it is a boundary I've had to train my own child to accept. Just because J shows up does not mean we are scrapping whatever we were doing together in here. We have been doing this for two years now and we still have to enforce with our own child that our family's activities do not revolve around this neighbor showing up at our house or not. It is a hard lesson for him to learn but to me it is vitally important.

[Youngfrankenstein]

Originally Posted by laundrycrisis

I have also pretty much put a ban on this child playing inside our house because once he comes in all boundaries just melt away and he will demandingly ask for and insist on anything. So play needs to be out front. Now when he asks for something (generally he sends my kids in to ask for him), he gets a Dixie cup of water. I tell him he will have to go home for anything else. When my own kids need to eat or want to drink anything except water, I have them come in alone and shut the door while they have it - I say "they will be back in a few minutes." I never thought I would end up doing this sort of thing but over years I've learned there is nothing this child and his parents won't come to expect. His parents are truly okay with him being gone for hours and hours on end and asking for food and drink and even expecting meals from other people's houses.

I feel for you! I think so many of us would love the sense of community and life-sharing with others. And I know we don't expect everyone to be perfect, but it seems that some people take so much advantage we are forced to do these things.

I don't think it's reasonable for the other family to say "all or nothing" with your kids playing there. It's very, very rude and hurtful. That said, you can't force people to do what they don't want to.

I understand about not wanting to hurt feelings, but you just need to be direct and honest. That doesn't mean you must be mean.

[pbjmama]

Originally Posted by bunnybartlett

the kids having friends over....I do wish the parents would check to see if it's ok first. We are talking about a 4 yr old here...left without speaking to me first. Once, the father asked my 4 yr old if she could play and left him. I cannot just send him home he has to be walked! If I am in the middle of something it is just very inconvenient. Why wouldn't she just call first or ring the bell when she gets here. To be honest I don't think she wants to give me the chance to say no...wants a place to dump her kids. I have sent them home at mealtimes ALOT> I just don't understand...if your kid left home at 11am and it is almost 5pm...and he is 4...wouldn't you wonder if he has had lunch? She has never thanked me or asked if they have eaten or if they behaved themselves for 6 hours or anything! He still needs his butt wiped so in my opinion that is not old enough for an all day playdate without a parent.

Hey, I wasn't saying you were wrong or justifying what they are doing. Obviously they are being irresponsible at best. I was trying to give you tips to take care of this now and stop being walked all over.

[bunnybartlett]

pb&j

I know you didn't....I am so frustrated. How can I bring these subjects up to this woman? If she was reasonable these are things that should never have to be talked about.

Laundry, thanks for the heads up...I will not try to schedule a daily time. I certainly don't need another obligation! That's what we have been doing...play when available and say no when we are not. We are also homeschoolers. My kids get up later and stay up later than school kids. I love the school sign that is a great way to get some quiet family time

Linda

[proudmomof4]

What's the almost proverbial saying: "If you resent it change it."
I can absolutely relate because we had similar issues while we lived in the U. S. and my children were small (or even newborns).

[pbjmama]

I think if you take a step back it won't be so hard to talk to her. Give yourself a day or two to brainstorm. Think of it as a conversation vs. a confrontation. Something like, with summer coming I'm planning to do red light/green light/school sign on the door so you will know when we are available to play. And add whatever other rules you want. Keep it casual.

[newbymom05]

I wouldn't worry about educating the other mom on common courtesy. You don't need to have a long conversation. Just say no, you're busy or your kids can't play now. If she gets mad, it's because she knows she's using you and resentful she can't continue--in that case, why should you care if she's angry?

As far as both kids being included, I"d send them both back w/ a "sorry, only X wants to play now, maybe some other time." The issue seems to be you don't want someone to be mad at you, yet the alternative is you being mad at being used/inconvenienced.

We have a neighbor whose daughter would be here all the time if I'd let her. I have never even met the parents, and they live across the street! If I don't want her here, I tell her to go home. If she wants food/drink, I tell her to go home and get it. If there's bickering, time to leave. I don't think that's mean, I think that's setting boundaries, and I have to do it b/c I'm the adult. I never even considered talking to the parents when she annoys me or knocks on my door at 8p to play. What would be the point--they obviously don't care so I deal w/ it myself.

I don't think you can rely on the other parent to know when you're fed up with their offspring.

Honestly, and I mean this gently, this is a problem of your own making. If they drop the kids off, call and tell them to come back and get them. They'll use you for a free babysitter as long as you're willing to let them. I wouldn't worry about angering or hurting the feelings of people who act that way.

[Lisa85]

What about setting up a time they can come back to play? As an example, if they drop by at 3pm on a Wednesday say "sorry, we cant play right now (no need to give a reason), but how about Saturday at 9:30? " If they show up before dont answer the door. If you feel like you must, then say Now is not a good time, remember our playdate is on Saturday, today is Thursday. We look forward to seeing you guys then!". Even kids will get the hint. There is no need to commit to a time everyday, or even every week. When they come by and its not a good time, tell them so (and call the mom back if she drops off).

If you feel like you have tried everything, I would just tell the mom that it isn't working out. The older boys can play at the park or her house, but it just doesn't work for her kids to be at your house.

[bunnybartlett]

newbymom

You are right...that is a great viewpoint. They can only use me as long as I let them. Maybe that's why it has irked me so badly. I feel as if I am being polite and courteous and getting walked all over. I also don't want to hurt the childs feelings but she keeps putting him in that position! That's whos feelings I am worried about. Also, my oldest really enjoys playing with her oldest for the most part. Sometimes she asks for me to send him home when the time runs so long and she has had enough. I hate to see her lose a friend because their mother has no common sense!

I agree that is why she would be angry or resentful and say "It's not fair" because now she has to entertain the younger child if his older brother is not around to do it for her. We figured that out early on.

Lisa, I like the idea of saying "Not now, but we are available xyz" It's hard when she drops the kid and I am not even out there to have the conversation. But what she will soon realize is that if the kids come as a set and it's all or nothing they playdates will be alot fewer and far between.

pb&j
I sure hope it works out that easily! It would be a heck of alot easier if she would just call first instead of walking the kids down the street and me having to disappoint and send him home....

[karika]

I saw in the OP that you have exchanged phone numbers. Perhaps a call is in order. Make sure she has time to chat for a moment. Let her know that you homeschool and have other obligations (etc) and that sometimes it is not convenient for the children to come. Set it up so that she calls first. Also tell her that sometimes you would like your older child to have a playdate with her older child without the younger one coming, so that you can get some one on one schooling done with your younger (even if it is not the case, may be easier to say that than to say anything judgmental (tho I also am feeling some judgments here too)) child. Then when she calls, say it up front if you want one or both to come and what time is good for starting and stopping. If you are doing ok financially I would just feed the children and not make a deal of them being there at meal and snack time. It may be that they are not doing well and so the children will fare better eating at your place. But if it is creating a hardship either emotionally or financially to feed them, then I would make sure when she phones that you plan it around eating, as in tell her to bring the child(ren) at 2 pm and that you will meet her halfway to return them at 5 pm. this way you get the time limit you are looking for. So my suggestion is to make playtimes contingent on a phone call first then all the above... you are very nice letting neighbor children come and play. It may be some of the best memories they will have.

[PGTlatte]

The suggested attempts at speaking with the mother are a good place to start. However keep in mind that you may be dealing with someone who does not have a "normal" sense of manners or boundaries and may have an odd reaction. I have tried over the years to deal with the parents in our situation. It has only resulted in the mother and teenage sister stepping up their manipulative tactics, creative attempts to get around the boundaries I try to set up, and from the mother, sister, and father, open hostility.

The only person we've been able to establish any boundaries with is the child. You may have to resort to this. When one or both of them shows up, if it's not a good time for you, you can tell the older one to walk the little one home. You can explain to him that your kids are not always going to be available to play; or that they have played long enough and it's time to go home; or that your younger one is not always going to be available for his younger sibling and that he needs to take the younger one home.

If you try talking to the mother politely and she is irrational or hostile about it, realize it is not your fault and do not feel bad. If she is hostile about it then it is because she has unreasonable expectations and it is her problem, not yours. If she will not help, you can always deal directly with the older child, in a kind but very firm way. There is no reason to feel guilty about doing this...if his parents won't teach him about boundaries and respect, then you will be giving him a valuable lesson. It is not fun to send a kid away from your house sad but sometimes it needs to be done.

Another thought regarding food - if I invite someone over and set up a playdate in advance, I will offer them a feast. But I have learned not to give food to kids who just show up at our house. I do not want them to expect it...period. I am also making it clear to our kids that playing with neighbor kids who just show up is only outside, not inside. There is a big difference between being an invited guest and just showing up at someone's house. I do not need to roll out the red carpet for someone I did not invite over.

[brokenheart]

Oh wow, no way could I handle that. When my DD was 2, we had an interesting neighbour. She allowed her 3 (aged 2, 4 and 6) to roam around. They would regularly come over to my house. I'm a very private person and I certainly don't want people just traipsing over whenever. After I (quickly) figured out that the mother truly didn't care and was too lazy to parent her children, I would put firm limits on the visits. If they knocked on the door, I would say yes, we can play for 20 minutes in the backyard. At the end of the 20 minutes, I would send them home. Other times, I would firmly yet cheerfully say no, we cannot play, sorry. We are busy right now. If they whined/complained, I'd just repeat myself, cheerfully. I'd do the same with the mom. People like that drive me crazy.

[COgirl19]

Originally Posted by brokenheart

Oh wow, no way could I handle that. When my DD was 2, we had an interesting neighbour. She allowed her 3 (aged 2, 4 and 6) to roam around. They would regularly come over to my house. I'm a very private person and I certainly don't want people just traipsing over whenever. After I (quickly) figured out that the mother truly didn't care and was too lazy to parent her children, I would put firm limits on the visits. If they knocked on the door, I would say yes, we can play for 20 minutes in the backyard. At the end of the 20 minutes, I would send them home. Other times, I would firmly yet cheerfully say no, we cannot play, sorry. We are busy right now. If they whined/complained, I'd just repeat myself, cheerfully. I'd do the same with the mom. People like that drive me crazy.

I totally agree with this. Many parents take advantage of others for free babysitting which is NOT right. Don't beat around the bush. Don't lie. Don't try so hard to not offend. Be FIRM, set boundaries and stick to them. You do NOT have to justify yourself or give a litany of reasons. No means no, it's your house and your children.

[pigpokey]

Look you definitely need to have your boundaries.

I hope nobody reads this thread and thinks "boy I better not let my kids go over to the neighbors' house." I really wish we had more kids knocking on the door. I can take care of myself ... I can decide whether I want to feed someone who is hungry or send him home; I can decide whether to let them in or not. I really think the OP does not mesh with these kids and needs to stop having them over.