Should I say something or let this go? *Update, post #14*

[Frootloop]

First off, I apologize about the length of this..

I'm not sure what to do, if anything, but I'm ready to spit nails at 13 yr old DD's teacher at school.

Over the last couple of weeks, they've gotten into the sex education in her Health class (which I have no problem with, btw). They've just recently gotten deep into genital functions and STD talks. Last night, while doing her homework, DD brings up to me her teacher was talking about HPV in class the other day and was saying that he highly recommends that all girls get the Gardisil shot to protect them against cervical cancer. Now, DD and I have already had this discussion and she knows that I don't feel it's right for us.. she goes to her teacher after class is over and tells him that not everyone should get it the shot unless you've really researched it like her mom has. Teacher seemed to get a bit angry and argumentative and says, "well I still think everyone should get it". DD lets it go.

I'm not happy that her teacher is telling these kids this crap. I don't feel that he has the right to recommend anything like that... but that's another issue for another forum, I suppose.

Yesterday, in class, Circumcision was brought up. DD knows exactly how I feel about RIC and has seen many pictures of the procedure. She knows what it entails and is completely horrified by the idea that someone would do that to a baby. Mr. Teacher apparently has told the class that the foreskin is no big deal.. that it is "just a little flap of skin".. AND that circumcision is also no big deal since "it just comes right off" (now, I do realize that not all circumcised young men are going to be comfortable being told that their foreskin was ripped away from their glans and then cut off, but to tell the class that it's "just a little flap of skin" just pisses me off).

DD stayed silent during the class, but again, after class, goes to the teacher. She tells teacher that it's not just a flap of skin and that it really hurts baby boys. She told him that her mom knows all about circumcision and that I taught her all about it. Teacher (while chuckling) then tells her that he's "the teacher" and he "knows what he's talking about". He refused to comment any further and sent DD on to her next class.

I'm SO so so proud of DD for standing up for baby boys!!
But I am LIVID at her teacher for minimalizing the issue and then laughing it off when my child brought up her concerns. Who the hell is this guy to basically recommend medical procedures to our kids???????

A huge part of me wants to print out a bunch of information about circumcision, including photos of baby boys being circumcised, and sending it along to class with DD.. but I know I shouldn't go that far.. well, at least with the addition of pictures, I mean.

DD has one month of school left with this guy. I don't want to start trouble, but I also don't want this guy giving kids inaccurate information.

Should I let it go?

*Edited to add that even though DH and I are still not on the same page in regard to circ, he's also pretty ticked that her teacher is minimizing circumcision and recommending Gardasil (he does fully agree with me on that one)... but he doesn't want me to say anything since DD may have to deal with the repercussions..
DH did get me laughing about one thing, though. He said, "oh s**t, this guy attacked 2 of the 3 things you're passionate about... God help the man if he says anything bad about breastfeeding". He's right. haha

[JessicaS]

Ya know, I probably would discuss that with the Principal if the teacher is giving medically inaccurate information in a health class. I would bring documentation from the medical organizations not recommending it and other such information.

My dd had a teacher that was telling her inaccurate things and I took issue with that.

[dianakaye]

I think you should definitely say something. Go about it with a lot of diplomacy, but say something. The thing about Gardacil is his opinion, and if he stated it as such then you can't really fault him. You could give him a list of reasons not to vaccinate and a list of alternatives. As for RIC, there's no way you could get me to close my mouth on that one. The information he is giving kids is going to influence not only your daughter's class, but classes he has in the future as well as generations to come. Kids (especially at that age) think that teachers are always right. I mean he's stating as a fact that it's just a "little piece of skin". It's more than that, and that's a fact. I would let him know where the facts are wrong. Probably that would have to be proceeded with "there is a lot of false information out there about the foreskin and circumcision" so he doesn't feel like it's an attack on him. If you played your cards right, maybe he'd even let you come in and do a 5 minute presentation on the anatomy of the foreskin and what a circumcision entails.

[Frootloop]

Abimommy - Well, I could go over his head to the principal, but I know that wouldn't end pretty. The principal and I already have issues and I know that I would either just be blown off or we'd end up in a heated argument that would get me nowhere at all. He's quite the chauvinistic.. umm.. nevermind lol. It took me a while to be able to stand my ground with that man, but now I have no problem doing so.

Dianakaye - Do you think I should go see him face to face? I'm really really not good with confrontation when it comes to people I don't know all that well. I'm so angry over this situation that I'm afraid I'll screw it up. I thought maybe sending in some printouts of the anatomy or.. something. Or call him. Or email him first. I don't know. I'm really not good at this sort of thing. When I'm heated up, I turn into a stuttering mess.
I really do like the "there is a lot of false information out there about the foreskin and circumcision" approach, though!

[JBaxter]

You need to address the teacher and RECOMMEND he stop giving MEDICAL advice. HE/SHE had no right recommending medications/treatments to minors.

[rhiOrion]

I say you need to contact him yourself if you're going to say anything at all. Just because it's not fair to your DD to make her be the go-between (like, by sending in info with her).

But if you don't do well face-to-face (I don't), then I say email him. Then you can phrase yourself very carefully to do your best to not put him on the defensive. And include links! With photos!

[Frootloop]

Jbaxter- That's exactly how DH and I both feel. I'm ok with him giving his opinion, but I'm not ok with him giving it as fact. DD said that with Gardisil, he was saying it prevented cervical cancer.. not that it MAY prevent it, but that it did and that all girls should get it. I'm hoping that she heard that wrong. I know that it was recently approved for boys, as well (or maybe it's another vax that is given to them for the same viruses), but nothing was said about that.

rhiOrion- I think that to start, I'm going to go with emailing him. I will likely start stammering like crazy if I call him or meet face to face (except I'd also be sweating and turning red if I did that).. and you're right, putting DD in the middle would not be fair to her.


Soooooo..... does anyone have any recommendations on links to send to a bullheaded Health teacher? I have a ton of links added to my favorites, but it will literally take me hours to go through it all!

[NSmomtobe]

Originally Posted by Frootloop

Teacher (while chuckling) then tells her that he's "the teacher" and he "knows what he's talking about".

Ugh, I hate that attitude. I've had doctors tell me not to question them because they are doctors, so they know better than me. Of course I switched doctors and my new doctor always respects what I have to say even if he doesn't agree.

Of course this story makes me cringe now, but when I was in high school, I stood up to a teacher who commented that male circumcision was as bad as female genital mutilation. I wrote him an unsolicited paper about the differences between the two procedures (clearly I didn't do that good a job because I had no idea at the time about the functions of the foreskin). The teacher appreciated the work I had put into it and while he obviously didn't agree with male circumcision, he revised his statement to say that it wasn't as bad as "some forms" of female genital mutilation, but that there were milder versions of FGM that were just as bad. He gave me an A on the paper and told me that I could use it in place of an assignment I hadn't handed in yet.

I really find it sickening that your daughter's teacher is not respectful at all of her "opinion", which is based on facts, so I would really want to educate him on those facts. Ideally it would be good if your daughter could bring him that information, but since he seems so disrespectful of her, maybe it would be more meaningful for him coming from an adult. However, you would need your daughter's permission to talk to him about it since she is the one who has to face him every day.

[Cheshire]

I would send print outs of info and pics. I bet he won't click on any links but if he's holding the papers in his hands he'll flip through them.

Send a letter, copy the principal and copy the superintendent and whoever at the school district is in charge of the health program.

Best of luck - you may just open a few more minds to the awfulness of circ.

[Night_Nurse]

I think you should either mail or email him some factual information and copy either the principal/vice-principal and also the superintendent. Having the foreskin removed is a big deal, especially to those who suffer botched jobs and lifelong pain. If the teacher wants to give his opinion on circ (and personally, I don't think he should), he needs to at least offer opposing views as well. I wouldn't want any boy in school, circed or intact, to ever feel bad about their own body.

And for the record, I think your daughter is amazing!

[Frootloop]

Quickie reply here because I'm on my way out of the house...

DH is quite likely going to get really ticked at me for doing this (he hates when I make waves), but I've decided (with the help of you all) that I'm going to gather a few links and email him. I'm also going to print some things out for DD to bring to him, but ONLY if she feels comfortable putting herself in that position. If she doesn't want to, I may just drop them into his mailbox at school. I'm not sure exactly where I'm going to go from there, but I'm not going to drop it.

I'm glad that you all feel that I'm not overreacting. And yes, my daughter is definitely amazing! I'm so proud of her for standing up to him on this. It's so sad that a child "gets it", but an adult can't.

[karika]

I agree with a pp that a teacher has no business giving medical advice. I would think teachers are supposed to be more impartial and not use their position to express their own opinions. I am proud of your daughter for knowing the difference. I also agree this is one reason we homeschool. I just wanted to say this, but I do not know what steps you should take to protect the other children that do not know that he will be in contact with during the course of his career. Maybe look up instances of parents that took issue with what was taught in sex ed, or religion, or a book or movie that was used that did not fit in with their values. I do not think an email to the teacher is the first step, since he is the one presenting a less than impartial view. I think it has to be above his head. It would be nice if a face to face with him would change his life view, but doubtful, so at this point it is about protecting children from dangerous and incorrect (IMO) advice.

If your dd had a bunch of stuff memorized about the gardasil shot that she could have countered with during class, that would have been cool, but I know it would be improbable...

[JessicaS]

I think I would just print off a couple of positions from major medical organizations

http://www.cirp.org/library/statemen...s/1996-02_ACS/

http://www.cirp.org/library/statements/aap1999/

One also has to consider that he is teaching to a student population that has lower circ rates than our generation. He would better serve his students by telling the truth than spreading confusion. There are likely intact students in her class.

[Frootloop]

More info.....

So... DD came home from school and informed me that when she tried talking to Mr. Teacher again today about circumcision and how it wasn't "just a flap of skin", he said, "Is your mom a health teacher? That's what I thought".
She kept pushing and asked him if he knew how circumcision was done and if he knew that the babies were strapped to a board, he said, "no, I didn't know that". She asked him if he knew about the clamps, he said, "No, I don't really know much about it".

When she said that she'd heard some things about the gardasil shot that weren't that great, he said, "where'd you hear that? Oh, let me guess.. your mom?".


Oh, this teacher and I are going to round and round.The only thing that the kids were given to read about circumcision was a very small paragraph that states, "In newborn boys, a flap of skin is called the foreskin covers the tip of the penis. Sometimes the foreskin is removed in an operation called Circumcision.
Circumcision is performed for religious and cultural reasons. It has no effect on penis size or how the penis works.
Uncircumcised men should gently pull the foreskin back and wash it when they bathe."

The main problem that I have with this statement is the bolded part. Seriously, how can people cut part of an organ off and then claim that it has no effect on how the penis works?
Mr. Teacher is going to be getting quite the education from me.. with pictures.

Abimommy, thank you very much for the links!! If anyone else has some good ones you'd recommend, please do share them!

[Ambystoma]

Go tell him, mama! Your DD is AMAZING!!

The thread on the dutch policy statement has a link to it and it is a wonderful, easy to read resource. I saved a copy of the pdf myself.

[annablue]

Originally Posted by Frootloop

So... DD came home from school and informed me that when she tried talking to Mr. Teacher again today about circumcision and how it wasn't "just a flap of skin", he said, "Is your mom a health teacher? That's what I thought".
She kept pushing and asked him if he knew how circumcision was done and if he knew that the babies were strapped to a board, he said, "no, I didn't know that". She asked him if he knew about the clamps, he said, "No, I don't really know much about it".

When she said that she'd heard some things about the gardasil shot that weren't that great, he said, "where'd you hear that? Oh, let me guess.. your mom?".

What a condescending, unhelpful man!

[zinemama]

Count me in the minority, but I don't think your daughter wading into this is commendable (though it's understandable) and I wouldn't be thrilled by it.

Call me overly-cautious, but there's something off about a 13yo girl discussing penises with her male teacher. There just is. It's fine if you want to send this teacher links. And yes, he should be imparting correct information. But for her own protection (and his) your dd should not serve as the messenger.

[number572]

The guy sounds uneducated and defensive (+ he may be circ'd, who knows. he may have circ'd his son, etc). He also needs info/links on how to respectfully listen to others!

[number572]

Originally Posted by zinemama

Count me in the minority, but I don't think your daughter wading into this is commendable (though it's understandable) and I wouldn't be thrilled by it.

Call me overly-cautious, but there's something off about a 13yo girl discussing penises with her male teacher. There just is. It's fine if you want to send this teacher links. And yes, he should be imparting correct information. But for her own protection (and his) your dd should not serve as the messenger.

Its Sex Ed. I think it could be handled professionally.

edit - Thats not said aggressively! It looks that way when I read the post, but I mean it more like, I feel that the teacher could stay pro about it & not get creepy. Its a med issue that op's dd is talking about with him.

[zinemama]

Originally Posted by number572

Its Sex Ed. I think it could be handled professionally.

edit - Thats not said aggressively! It looks that way when I read the post, but I mean it more like, I feel that the teacher could stay pro about it & not get creepy. Its a med issue that op's dd is talking about with him.

As far as I can determine, these discussions are not taking place within the context of the sex ed class, but after class, privately. The teacher ought to know better and the OP should not be encouraging her daughter to continue this. I've taught in public schools. It doesn't matter if the teacher is actually being creepy or not. It's not appropriate for a 13yo girl and a male teacher to be discussing penises outside class.