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Wondering if anybody has a child with similar issues as mine

post #1 of 15
Thread Starter 
(I've posted this in a previous thread but was hoping for more responses)

my dd is almost 7 and is struggling with writing. she has trouble with copying from the board, and writing simple words and sentences. one thing in particular that i'm curious about is she can spell words correctly orally, but when you ask her to write it down she can't spell the same word correctly that she just spelled orally. she got a 33% on her last spelling test and the teacher (per my suggestion) quizzed her orally immediately following the test (after seeing how poorly she did) and my dd got a 94%.

we had her vision tested by a developmental optometrist and her fine motor portion of the test was at level for her age (putting +'s in progressively smaller circles and was timed). on the visual discrimination she scored the equivalent of a 13 year old (the highest you could get - she didn't miss any)... on visual memory (not requiring writing) she scored the equivalent of an 11 year old. but on the same section (visual) but a different subtest when she had to use her visual memory and recreate it on paper with pencil she scored as a 5 year old. the optometrist said that is a concern since there is such a large discrepancy between that and her visual memory and discrimination (13 yo and 11 yo scores).

i'm just curious as to what would cause her such difficult with writing.

on the testing by the optometrist she scored low in directionality, tracking, and dyslexia screening.
post #2 of 15
Perhaps an auditory processing disorder?

http://kidshealth.org/parent/medical..._auditory.html
post #3 of 15
I grew up with those same issues. It took so much longer to get my paperwork done than the other kids. I still had to do it, but I had to have more time.

It's why I love keyboards so much.

When I was asked to copy simple shapes, I couldn't make my hand do it... even though I could see it in my head, my hand just wouldn't do what I had pictured. I always wanted pretty handwriting, and I still write like a seven year old.
post #4 of 15
Dyslexia can cause copying issues and directionality issues.
But I would expect spelling to be a problem orally too.
Tracking only huh? See, I would expect this type of thing more with convergence issues.
(my son had both tracking and convergence...but I assume they tested convergence, right?)

Here's dyslexia information so you can make sure she doesn't fit that profile (or if she does look into it further).
http://www.dys-add.com/symptoms.htm

So if the vision issues don't explain it (did the doctor feel they did?) and dyslexia doesn't look like the culprit when you look at the above I would look into dysgraphia to see if it fits. Dysgraphia sounds like what you're describing to me. The tricky part is that it can go along with other things (like dyslexia), be caused by other issues, or stand alone. But it doesn't matter--it needs addressed no matter the issues.

If she's dysgraphic the very best thing you can do is teach her keyboarding (which will likely be more difficult to learn as well but necessary) and get accommodations in school so she can keyboard. You'll also work to get her as competent with writing (which she'll have to do in life of course) as possible. But you don't want this struggle to hold her back academically so you need modifications. It's a learning disability.
post #5 of 15
Yes, my child w/dyslexia. Spelling tests tend to be fine because the words have been memorized, but carry over to general written work is challenging. Oral spelling can be OK, sometimes, because there's a little more processing that goes into it, but it's also still a challenge.
post #6 of 15
It could also be dysgraphia and/or auditory processing. My son scored in the very high range for verbal expression, reading comprehension, visual discrimination and memory but as soon as you brought writing into the mix he scored below the median.

Writing/spelling are his biggest issues in learning and that is what brought us to this point. The best thing we have done was a get a complete neuro psych eval.

He has since been diagnosed with dysgraphia and we are scheduled for a CAP eval. in a few weeks. he has received accommodations and will be using a keyboard in school next year.

I posted a few days ago looking for some fun keyboarding games and have received a few good ideas! You might want to check it out.
post #7 of 15
Yes I understand what you are going thru. I have a 9 year old son who has had trouble from First grade to current. His handwighting is hard to read, he can't copy from the board and if he does it is not always correct and we have spelling issues and such as well. To make is all worse he has issues focusing due to the fact that he can't always figure it out or follow what is going due to other things or noises that he gets in trouble at school for talking, moving ect. Currently he is in the 3rd grade now with an IEP where he get extra help for Wrighting, Spelling and reading. He also is allowed to step outside of the class room as needed to complet an assigment if need be.

When we started the journey for getting early services for speech we were turned down so my son did not start getting help untill First grade. In Second grade I pushed and pushed the school disrict to do further testing as I knew he was not sucesseding and I finally got the testing. He test great and did better in the test than he does in a classroom and it was I belive becasue he could talk his answers. I pushed that I wanted services for him as I don't want him to fail and they gave them to me and I will continue to push for the IEP so that he gets the help he needs. We also work hard at home working on stuff to continue building his skills.
post #8 of 15
Dyspraxia? Also known as developmental co-ordination disorder.
post #9 of 15
The others have really good suggestions. My son is Autistic but has a lot of issues writing. He's really smart and does well verbally but the act of writing is physically frustrating and he gets stressed out. The feel of lead on paper, the sound and the coordination required is hard for him. Its very much related to his sensory issues. This year the school introduced a personal word processor to him and he has done amazingly well with that. He does his homework on it and then plugs it into the teacher's computer and it automatically prints it out for him. (they've taught him how to do that all on his own) He went from only a couple words right on spelling tests to %100. To barely getting a sentence down before givin gup to writing whole reports. Its been awesome.
post #10 of 15
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charbeau View Post
Perhaps an auditory processing disorder?

http://kidshealth.org/parent/medical..._auditory.html
She's had her ears checked by an audiologist and he never noticed any cause for concern. She has a history of ear infections/fluid in ears since she was a young child.
post #11 of 15
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sbgrace View Post
Dyslexia can cause copying issues and directionality issues.
But I would expect spelling to be a problem orally too.
Tracking only huh? See, I would expect this type of thing more with convergence issues.
(my son had both tracking and convergence...but I assume they tested convergence, right?).
no other issues with her eyes, just the tracking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sbgrace View Post
Here's dyslexia information so you can make sure she doesn't fit that profile (or if she does look into it further).
http://www.dys-add.com/symptoms.htm

So if the vision issues don't explain it (did the doctor feel they did?) and dyslexia doesn't look like the culprit when you look at the above I would look into dysgraphia to see if it fits. Dysgraphia sounds like what you're describing to me. The tricky part is that it can go along with other things (like dyslexia), be caused by other issues, or stand alone. But it doesn't matter--it needs addressed no matter the issues.

If she's dysgraphic the very best thing you can do is teach her keyboarding (which will likely be more difficult to learn as well but necessary) and get accommodations in school so she can keyboard. You'll also work to get her as competent with writing (which she'll have to do in life of course) as possible. But you don't want this struggle to hold her back academically so you need modifications. It's a learning disability.
i'm gonna copy her sx from the link you posted:

- delayed speech (not speaking any words by the child's first birthday. Often, they don't start talking until they are two, two-and-a-half, three, or even older.) she was slightly delayed, we hard a hard time understanding what she was saying. we discovered when she was 3 that she had fluid in her ears and we wasted a year (per the ENTs suggestion) of trying meds before she finally had surgery.

- mixing up sounds in multi-syllabic words (ex: aminal for animal, bisghetti for spaghetti, hekalopter for helicopter, hangaberg for hamburger, mazageen for magazine, etc.) she does this a little. ever since she was little she has always called 'dessert' 'bessert' and even though i've corrected it she still says it like that.

- lots of ear infections yes

- can't master tying shoes i've tried teaching her a few times but haven't really tried. so no, she still can't tie shoes.

- confusion over left versus right, over versus under, before versus after, and other directionality words and concepts YES, and early/late, tomorrow/yesterday, these sort of confusion causes difficulty in conversations. i have a hard time understanding what she's talking about sometimes, whether it's something in the past or future.

- late to establish a dominant hand after age 5 she decided to be lefthanded. i wouldn't say it was late, late... but definately later than my younger dd.

- despite listening to stories that contain lots of rhyming words, such as Dr. Seuss, cannot tell you words that rhyme with cat or seat by the age of four-and-a-half *sometimes* she will have a hard time rhyming words.

- When they misread, they often say a word that has the same first and last letters, and the same shape, such as form-from or trial-trail. they may insert or leave out letters, such as could-cold or star-stair. they may say a word that has the same letters, but in a different sequence, such as who-how, lots-lost, saw-was, or girl-grill.happens frequently

- becomes visibly tired after reading for only a short time yes

- directionality confusion shows up when reading and when writing yes, although her letters have improved, but still has troubles with them. her numbers are her worst. and will even write 15 as 51 and the 5 is backwards too. there is no rhyme or reason to them either, she'll have some incorrect, a few will be correct, and then a few incorrect again. constantly switching the directions of them

- Substitutes similar-looking words, even if it changes the meaning of the sentence, such as sunrise for surprise, house for horse, while for white, wanting for walking yes

- Misreads, omits, or even adds small function words, such as an, a, from, the, to, were, are, of yes

- Their spelling is far worse than their reading. They sometimes flunk inventive spelling. They have extreme difficulty with vowel sounds, and often leave them out. yes, and spelling words she knew one week, she forgets the next. with inventive spelling she omits vowels frequently.

- Continually misspells high frequency sight words (nonphonetic but very common words) such as they, what, where, does and because—despite extensive practice. yes

- Misspells even when copying something from the board or from a book. yes

- Young children will often put their head down on the desk to watch the tip of the pencil as they write YES! i used to think she was doing this to be lazy. she can NOT for the life of her write sitting up properly. her head is like a magnet to the table.

- Child has great difficulty getting letters to "sit" on the horizontal lines. yes

- Copying off of the board is slow, painful, and tedious. Child looks up and visually "grabs" just one or two letters at a time, repeatedly subvocalizes the names of those letters, then stares intensely at their paper when writing those one or two letters. This process is repeated over and over. Child frequently loses his/her place when copying, misspells when copying, and doesn't always match capitalization or punctuation when copying—even though the child can read what was on the board. not sure about this. i just know she copies incorrectly.

- Unusual spatial organization of the page. Words may be widely spaced or tightly pushed together. Margins are often ignored. yes

- avoid writing whenever possible yes, she hates it. reading and writing.

- not understand that a sentence has to start with a capital letter and end with punctuation still forgets to do this.


she's my first so i'm not entirely sure what should be expected of someone her age. i just have a feeling in my gut that something is off. her grades have been slipping the past few months. i used to think she was just being lazy about alot of things. sometimes she'll even write her name wrong on her papers (leaves out a letter once and awhile). she loves to learn about science/nature/history and will watch any documentary on the discovery channel or history channel. but asking her to read a fairly basic reader at her grade level and you'd think it was the end of the world.
post #12 of 15
Look around on the site with the dyslexia screening you already looked at. Ms. Barton has put a ton of wonderful information about dyslexia together. I actually emailed her (you could call as well) personally about my son. She'll answer questions and etc. free. She's very helpful. She told me my son was likely dyslexic. He had far fewer of the red flags than your daughter does. I gathered from the site that kids with dyslexia who can read often show a drop off from peers (that keeps getting worse) as they age. So if this is dyslexia she's going to get more and more frustrated and discouraged in time. She needs help.

She's frustrated because she can't do the work. This is much harder for her than her peers not because she's unintelligent but because her brain works differently and makes this extremely difficult. She needs specific kinds of instruction to help her brain better able to do this stuff. I've seen studies that given the proper approach to phonics instruction dyslexic brains actually change in response.

You can also see on the site that dysgraphia (what you're describing) is very common with dyslexia.

I would pursue dyslexia aggressively--formal testing and treatment. The sooner you address issues the better her chance of this not holding her back.

If she's dyslexic (and it looks like she has a lot of flags/might be) she likely needs a formal program for dyslexia. Barton is most often used. It's expensive but people usually sell each level (at a pretty good return as far as I can tell) to pay for the next. There are other programs and private tutoring as well. I've heard of people sometimes finding a dyslexia tutor (say Wilson tutor) who is in training so there is a cost break. I know more people who do Barton or another program with their child themselves. I would also find out if the school system has Barton or a similar O-G (you'll know that term as you read) program for struggling kids. There are yahoo groups I can link you if you'd like.

See what the school system offers for kids who need intervention in reading (they likely don't assess dyslexia specifically/in most places you have to have that testing yourself). In our son we decided to just proceed as if in terms of treating him. Some school systems do a good job with dyslexia and others (ours is one) don't and you have to do it yourself/privately. You'd want them to be using an O-G system like Barton or Wilson. If you can I'd try to start with her this summer on my own no matter what the school can offer next year.

I'm happy to share what I'm doing (that's helping) with my son. Of course I don't know exactly where your daughter is and if it's too much/not enough/etc. for her but I'm happy to share the links (all online materials). If you would like the information just PM me.
post #13 of 15
Check out Nonverbal Learning Disability as well. It's a type of disability that doesn't have to do with verbal ability. Kids with NLD are often off the charts on verbal stuff and do quite well with auditory info (do great on oral spelling tests, for example), but can't translate that to written work.

Here are some links:
http://www.nldontheweb.org/
http://www.nldline.com/
http://www.nlda.org/
http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/nonverbal_learning.htm

This is something that a pyschologist can diagnose with educational testing.

hth
post #14 of 15
My son was just diagnosed ADHD, and he has a lot of the same problems with writing. They tested for dyslexia, and it was negative. Anyway, he couldn't copy from the board, his handwriting was horrible, failed all spelling tests, etc. Not saying your daughter is ADHD, but the problems you describe could be a lot of different things. My son has been on Focalin for a month or so, and we've seen a huge improvement. He still does pretty bad on his spelling tests, but we're hoping we can catch him up during the summer.

Has anyone tried Handwriting without Tears?
post #15 of 15
Sounds like me as a child and I have dyslexia. It also sounds a bit like auditory processing as well.

We can all guess and guess but the only person who can really tell you what is going on is either a developmental pediatrician or pediatric neuro-psych.
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