How can I convince my parents?

[CrayolaColours]

Hi, I looked around the site, and I have to say, you're all really nice people. I haven't seen a single judgmental post in the entire unschooling sub-forum. (Though, I'm probably just not looking hard enough )

Anyway, on to my problem. My parents both think the only way for me to get anywhere in life is traditional schooling. Though I've told them time and time again, if I wanted to be something that required a college education (I don't), I could get a GED, go to community for two years, then transfer to university. And I've even heard of unschoolers going straight to university. In other words, there are ways around this. They still wont let me leave school. Now, I consider myself a youth rights activist, in the fact that I believe children should be allowed to think for themselves, and my basic rights shouldn't be locked in a safe until my eighteenth birthday. I believe children should be dealt with within reason, and like human beings. Forcing me to go somewhere seven hours a day, 180 days a year, is definitely not treating me like a human.

I tried going down the homeschooling path, because I knew my parents would literally laugh in my face if I tried explaining unschooling to them, so I decided to go with the next best thing. But they said homeschooling costs too much money. I told them they could forget about my Christmas, birthdays and Easter, they'd never have to buy me a Halloween costume ever again. But they still said no. Unschooling doesn't cost anything, as far as I know. Unless there's some hidden "The school is butthurt because you're leaving, now you have to pay this much" fee I don't know about.

I just can't go to school anymore. I hate schedules, I hate a good amount of the "authority", because a good amount of times, people get jobs like that because it gives them control. Control over me. Control I don't like. I get terrible grades (in math especially, I actually try in that class, but still so horribly) most of the time, because I'm just not interested. I can't stay awake, and I typically get out of bed and get ready for school five minutes before I actually need to be there. They recently made us wear uniforms, oh god, I can't stand those. Not because of the superficial "They're ugly" response, but because our individuality is being stripped from us piece by piece, and no one seems to notice, or care. The lunch ladies steal from my account, as well. Positive learning environment? How about no.

I also want to go into the art field. Another thing my parents disapprove of, they think I won't be able to make money that way, but they just don't get that I will be able to make money, but more importantly, I'll be happy.

So, how do I get them to see that I need this more than anything, or I'm going to go crazy. I'm dropping out next year, when I'm 16, regardless. But, my parents are going to kick me out if I do. I'm completely out of options here. I need help.

[mary3mama]

Have you read The Teenage Liberation Handbook?

IIRC there is information in there about how to deal with reluctant parents.

And, no, as far as I've ever heard there's no 'get out of school fee' for moving along to home/unschooling.

Best wishes!

[redpeppermama]

Hi,

Are you sure you're just a teen? My you're eloquent. Somebody's doing something right, yes?

You can't talk anybody into doing anything, really. People make up their minds about issues generally in about the first four seconds during which they consider them - everything after that tends to go toward rationalizing that decision. So what to do.

First, they probably won't let you unschool, though you appear to be more than capable. My absolute suggestion is not to drop out at 16 - in life there are lots of things we have to do that we don't like but need to finish... if you aren't in danger, stick it out. Sticking with projects builds character.

Second, unschool yourself in your time outside of school. The best way to open thinking - I find - is to make an example of yourself. So consider school your job; keeps you in food and shelter with mom and dad, right? Then do your own schooling afterward. Could be that they're so impressed they'll let you have a go at it full time.

Third, check into the local community college. All of them take kids at 16, and some earlier. Most let you start while still in high school. Even if CC isn't your ultimate goal, leaving high school to start college early is going to sound better to mom and dad than Dropout will. You have to give them something to fall back on when they may feel like updating friends and family on what you're up to.

Oh and uniforms? I grew up a kid who couldn't afford to express my individuality. Uniforms would have been a Godsend to me - so there are several sides to that. As a job-holding adult, chances are you'll be asked to wear a uniform at some - probably many - points in your life. It's no big deal; I suspect your personality shines through whatever you're wearing.

Best of luck.

[4evermom]

Cyber school (free public school at home) can be a great option for some. Typically in my state, the student gets a laptop for the year. Although one needs to check in regularly, assignments can be done on your own schedule. There is no wasted time getting from class to class, waiting for the other students to settle down enough for the teacher to start teaching, no study halls where you are just biding time, and no dress code. It could be a good compromise or a good first step towards less structured homeschooling.

[RoseValleyGirl]

Oh I feel for you. I'm sorry you're not finding the support at home to live you life more freely.

As another poster suggested, cyber schools are free. The might be a better fit for awhile. Lots of people will try things for a little while to test it out. Why don't you suggest that you try it for next school year or even a partial year to see how it goes?

And to your parents responses to your choices, I would remind them that every time they reject you and your choices, that you are taking a step away from them. Heck, your considering ways to drop out and live out of the home at age 16, right? I would be careful not to use that as a threat, but just a clue as to what is happening to your relationship with them.

Hook up to more unschooling things out there (conferences, teens, blogs, lists, groups, ect) and get the encouragement and support that you need. Find great examples of grown up unschoolers and show your parents. Here's a rather long video from Astra Taylor
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwIyy1Fi-4Q

And one more thing, lots of unschooling teens choose to go to school and still consider themselves unschoolers. True, they have a choice, but they also have one foot in each world. So go ahead and sleep through your classes if you have to and live freely the rest of the time.

You sound passionate and driven, I'm sure you'll find a way to succeed.

[joy_seeker]

I would suggest you read the book Guerilla Learning: How to Give Your Kids a Real Education With or Without School by Grace Llewellyn and Amy Silver. It's a book for people who have to attend traditional school for a variety of reasons but who do so with a 'homeschooling attitude'. You may not be able to change your situation but perhaps if you can see it through a different perspective it will be more bearable.

[Marsupialmom]

I agree with others.


You say you want to get into the art field. I think it would help if you are more specific. Talk about job titles. Go up to http://www.payscale.com/ get a general idea what they make.

Research internships! Art can help in marketing, commercial, architecture, et. I had a friend whose child wanted to get a major in art. Since she was paying she said you can do that but you also have to work and get a degree in one of these other fields. Her daughter was very upset but once she graduated the "other" degree got her a job while the Art stuff is working out.

Show off your works as much as possible. Document your work. You created a mural for your school DOCUMENT it put it on your resume create a portfolio.

As much as I love the book Teenage liberation guide it isn't always a wise path for all students. Or there can be a balance between the two.

[SundayCrepes]

I agree about some sort of cyberschool or community college. I recently discovered http://www.cosmeo.com/welcome/what.html. Do a lot of research into a specific curriculum you would like to do, how much it will (or will not) cost, and all the benefits to you and your parents. Come up with a specific plan that satisfies their expectations and gets you as close as you want to your plans. I doubt if they'll let you unschool at this time, but if you have a plan that meets their ideals, then you'll be a lot closer to getting their support.

[yarngoddess]

My suggestion would be to start with some sort of Alternative School. Have you looked into your district/area? In this area we have an alternative school- meaning you got to this other school for 2hrs a day. There are other charter programs that allow you to attend school at home, via your computer. If you don't have one- it will be provided for you, with the understanding that it's theirs. I hope you check into your area and see if there are alternatives to the "typical" school.

[Qalliope]

What do you want to do in the arts, and why aren't you doing it already? Don't wait for permission, just get busy.

You seem to have the motivation and desire to do something specific, and there is no reason you can't spend the vast majority of your time painting or sculpting or whatever your medium is, and researching and sketching out ideas can happen even during school hours. Building a portfolio is important, just a matter of having your work well photographed, but you really just need to start getting exposure. Enter contests (artdeadlineslist.com), submit work to galleries, network and collaborate with other artists, join groups or start one at your school. If you can't get out of school, you may as well try to make it someplace you want to be; use it as a resource to draw other talent from. The art world can be a lot about who you know. Go to openings, see what other people are doing in your city/community, talk to everyone. A friendship with a good web design student and a good photographer would be worth a million bucks.

As far as getting your parents on board with homeschooling, well, I am a big fan of peaceful resistance. I would not compromise my ideals to please or placate them; it will only set up a pattern of having to constantly prove yourself. My advice is to read up on Gandhi and his non-cooperation movement. Maybe you will get inspired.

[CrayolaColours]

I've heard of the Teenage Liberation Handbook, though I haven't read it yet. Same with most of the books you guys recommended. Kinda hard to buy it, the only one I've managed to buy is a book called Dumbing Us Down, by John Taylor Gatto.

I have thought about alternative school, but there aren't any around here. My parents are extremely lazy, and say no to cyber school. Because I have to drive out to a certain place for testing once a month or so. Community college, well... I think that would probably cost too much. My dad seems to want me to be a brain surgeon. (My response: HAHA OH WOW. I'd end up leaving all my patients brain dead. I can't think under pressure.) And, he looks down on community college.

The reason I'm okay with dropping out next year is because I have everything figured out. I want to go to the Art Institute, and they accept GEDs. About my field, I have that figured out too. I want to be a concept artist. It's pretty open. I can move from company to company, and I have at least a mild amount of freedom.

I'm listening to the video, and thank you (Just heard the word ageism, and compulsory schooling, I think I love this video) If I can get them to really listen to the video, I don't see why they wouldn't let me. I'm actually seeing a lot of Dumbing Us Down in this video.

Oh, and yeah, I'm a teen. Surprising, right? Actually, a lot of anti-school kids sound smarter than pro-school kids.

Seriously, thank you guys, I'll double check for alternative schools in the area (but I'm still going to try for unschooling... I can dream, right?).

[zebra15]

Originally Posted by CrayolaColours

I've heard of the Teenage Liberation Handbook, though I haven't read it yet. Same with most of the books you guys recommended. Kinda hard to buy it, the only one I've managed to buy is a book called Dumbing Us Down, by John Taylor Gatto.

I have thought about alternative school, but there aren't any around here. My parents are extremely lazy, and say no to cyber school. Because I have to drive out to a certain place for testing once a month or so. Community college, well... I think that would probably cost too much. My dad seems to want me to be a brain surgeon. (My response: HAHA OH WOW. I'd end up leaving all my patients brain dead. I can't think under pressure.) And, he looks down on community college.

The reason I'm okay with dropping out next year is because I have everything figured out. I want to go to the Art Institute, and they accept GEDs. About my field, I have that figured out too. I want to be a concept artist. It's pretty open. I can move from company to company, and I have at least a mild amount of freedom.

I'm listening to the video, and thank you (Just heard the word ageism, and compulsory schooling, I think I love this video) If I can get them to really listen to the video, I don't see why they wouldn't let me. I'm actually seeing a lot of Dumbing Us Down in this video.

Oh, and yeah, I'm a teen. Surprising, right? Actually, a lot of anti-school kids sound smarter than pro-school kids.

Seriously, thank you guys, I'll double check for alternative schools in the area (but I'm still going to try for unschooling... I can dream, right?).

Hey CC, you dont need to BUY the books, you can get them at the library. Thats what alot of us homeschoolers do....

[CrayolaColours]

The local one doesn't have it. But I'm not sure about the main branch. I'll have to check. I was thinking about putting an envelope in the mailbox, with information on unschooling in it. When they ask me about it I could be all "Wasn't me...." Since they rarely listen to me, I figure I'd have a better chance with an anonymous piece of paper. Sad, but true.

I actually think I have the book downloaded, and I'll probably end up buying it as soon as I can. I read the analogy in the beginning about school force feeding us bad food, to the point where we didn't have room for the good food. I thought that was really cool.

[moominmamma]

Originally Posted by CrayolaColours

The local one doesn't have it.

There's this service called inter-library loan that most libraries offer. You request a book they don't have, and they borrow it from a neighboring library (or a not-so-neighboring library) on your behalf. Sometimes there's a very small fee, but usually it's free. It's an exceptionally useful service, and one that you could tuck away as fodder to debunk your parents' perception that homeschooling is expensive. You might also tally up all school fees, cost of uniforms, etc. to point out the money you'd be saving.

I second the suggestions that others are making that you need to pull together concrete plans and counter-arguments to your parents' excuses and present them as a well-organized plan. Many parents' first reaction to a teen wanting out of school is that she's just looking to avoid stuff that's hard or boring. If you can present a well-researched and organized body of information you'll show them you're not trying to avoid work -- you're a serious, organized and ambitious creative thinker who is willing to put her energy to work on something she's passionate about. Which you clearly are! You just need to show them in terms that they'll understand. Think of it like a sociology research project.

Miranda

[lauriem33]

The Astra Taylor talk might be more for you than for your parents if they are not yet on board with homeschooling (much less unschooling). I'd also suggest looking on YouTube for the John Taylor Gatto speeches (there are also transcripts of some of them out there online). Those might be a little easier to get your parents to read/listen to because he was a teacher for 30 years and even won NY teacher of the year awards. He might be seen as more "credible" to adults who don't yet know much about alternative education options.

[Picard]

I'm sorry to hear that you are in such an unhappy schooling situation, and I am answering because I was too at your age. I did stick it out, 'pilfering' time away from school any way I could while maintaining the required grades to get me by.

If you have a solid outline (complete with details and then some more details as to how you are going to go about it), I would say: Go for it. Don't wait until you are 18. Otherwise, just sit it out as best you can; treat school as a necessary given in your life and work towards your goal simultaneously.

[lach]

Originally Posted by moominmamma

There's this service called inter-library loan that most libraries offer. You request a book they don't have, and they borrow it from a neighboring library (or a not-so-neighboring library) on your behalf. Sometimes there's a very small fee, but usually it's free. It's an exceptionally useful service, and one that you could tuck away as fodder to debunk your parents' perception that homeschooling is expensive. You might also tally up all school fees, cost of uniforms, etc. to point out the money you'd be saving.

I second the suggestions that others are making that you need to pull together concrete plans and counter-arguments to your parents' excuses and present them as a well-organized plan. Many parents' first reaction to a teen wanting out of school is that she's just looking to avoid stuff that's hard or boring. If you can present a well-researched and organized body of information you'll show them you're not trying to avoid work -- you're a serious, organized and ambitious creative thinker who is willing to put her energy to work on something she's passionate about. Which you clearly are! You just need to show them in terms that they'll understand. Think of it like a sociology research project.

Miranda

I agree with everything Miranda said.

I convinced my parents to let me homeschool by writing up a very concrete plan. It included reasons why I wanted to homeschool, and a concrete plan of study. Since your parents seem to be concerned about the financial repercussions of homeschooling, I would also include information about both the costs of homeschooling and the costs of public schooling. And be realistic: what would you be doing all day that doesn't cost any money?

I would also think about compromises that you are willing to make, and that you think your parents are willing to make. I would be realistic about this, too. Would your parents be okay with you working towards an art school for college? Would it be acceptable for either you or your parents to do a semester at sea or outward bound type program? Would you be willing to stick to a strict curriculum for a few subjects that your parents think are important, and in return would they be willing to trust you to learn what you need to know in other areas? Would you and they be willing to try a one year test? Unfortunately, adult life is full of compromises, and I think that if you're willing to make some compromises your parents might be willing to negotiate with you as an adult, instead of just as their kid.

I also wanted to add that I know that you feel like you're being smothered, but please don't romanticize what it would be like to be 16 and living on the streets. It might seem like you're in a rough situation now, but if your parents are serious about kicking you out if you drop out of high school, I would seriously, seriously think about the repercussions of that. I've worked with homeless teenagers before, and I don't think that a single one of them would recommend it as anything but a lifestyle of last resort, reserved for teens who are physically unsafe at home.

[skueppers]

One of the problems a lot of parents have is that they fail to perceive that students who aren't doing well in school aren't losers. They figure that if a kid isn't doing well in school, then they must be lazy and unmotivated, and therefore, things would be even worse if they weren't in school.

The thing is, this has a grain of truth, even if the mechanism isn't the one the parents imagine. It takes the average person quite some time to get over the experience of having been in school, during which time they may not be terribly motivated to pursue much in the way of educational activities. Basically, they've been messed up by years of formal schooling and parental pressure, and they need time to decompress and find their own path.

Do you ever start the school year or semester with the best intentions of doing well this time, only to find that your resolve falls apart partway through? Unfortunately, the same thing may well happen if you're not in school, and you'll still be under a lot of pressure to demonstrate academic progress to your parents.

Personally, it took me about two years to get over my negative school and parental experiences and find myself academically. That kind of timeframe probably isn't going to fly with your parents.

One thing that might help would be for your parents to meet some homeschooled teenagers. Is there a homeschooling support group nearby that you could contact? Also, they might respond to someone like a psychologist telling them that homeschooling would be the best choice for you. Again, this is something a local homeschooling group might be able to help you with.

[StoryFather]

Why I'm Un-Schooling my child.

I'm a father myself, and while my DD is much too young to have an opinion one way or another, My DW and I are Semi-Unschooling her. I am a product of the horrid, one-size fits all, every kid is a clone of stupid, public educational system.

Don't get me wrong, I learned a lot in school. They taught me a number of things I'd have never have learned on my own. I learned how to pretend I wasn't bored in classes as they repeated things I'd already proven I'd learned for the benefit of other students. I learned how other kids dislike you if you don't act like they do. I learned that for some reason 90% of people think school is for earning good grades not for learning.

I was tossed between advanced placement honors classes and remedial classes. One year I'd be in one for a subject, the next in the other; it all depended on what they were teaching that year, who and how they were teaching it. I usually did poorly academically in history, but aced the exams. Why? I didn't do any of the assignments. I couldn't convince myself that doing a collage about slavery was going to teach me anything this year that writing a paper about the effect of the emancipation proclamation didn't last year.

One teacher, my senior year of high school, told me something that explained all my troubles. "You are free-independent thinker; and unfortunately, the school system fails you."

It's only later that I understood that not only did it fail me, but it usually hurt me. I'm something that the formal public school system doesn't even have a proper classification for: I'm a poly-math, which means I can't limit myself to learning/understanding parts of things. I'm as likely to analyze a poem for the word frequency, or history, or lexicographical representation, as for it's beauty and imagery. Public school said learn one thing at a time, I have difficulty not attempting to learn everything at once.

Now I went to college, have a job(software developer), a wife and a beautiful daughter. By your parent's standards I "made it", I did the "right thing" and got a "real job", but I'm not where I could have been, nor where I want to be. Not by a long shot. (Oh, and now I've decided I want to become an author).

If I was unschooled, I'd have pressured my parents to let me enter college at 13-14. (By that age I had exhausted the local libraries non-fiction section being a voracious reader.) I'd have probably have graduated college with honors instead of having to drop out due to issues with having to work my way through school. The path I was trying to go, when I was your age was, what people told me I should do. I've never been much of a conformist, but due to lack of exposure I never knew there were other ways to go.

Until I started looking at it in regards to my own daughter, I thought all homeschoolers were ignorant religious zealots. I was guilty of only hearing the oppositions stereotypes and not looking past them.

Now I am determined that my daughter won't be brainwashed and stifled like I was. I want her to have the opportunity to grow at her own pace; be that a whirlwind or snail. I want her to have the luxury to seek her own answers to problems and questions. I want to have her learn her own way of being and doing. Most importantly I want her to cherish that sense of wonder we're born with and to never shy away from her creativity.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Advise for CrayolaColours

Now that I've given the reasons I feel that unschooling is right for my family, let's discuss some of the drawbacks.

1. Without formal classes, you'll never do anything/learn anything:
While true there are some students that only can learn in structured and rigid environments; I've only seen studies that specify that structured and rigid, or predictable environments are most beneficial to either the very young (less that normal school age) or the mentally disabled. Given your very articulate and well thought out request I'm assuming you're not mentally disabled.

Many of the same studies show that given proper motivation (and very recent studies show that activities that bring a sense of self worth and lasting accomplishment are by far the best motivation available) students from around age 2 to senile 90+ are compelled to learn and do things if given the right opportunity. In fact, when given a chance to act on something they feel passionately about; many students not only do well but become notable successes and leaders in their chosen field.


2. Without a schedule you'll only focus on part of things and won't get a well rounded education:
What is a "well rounded education"? I know what an adequate education is, but not a "well rounded " one. An adequate education is one where the student has proven his/her ability to competently handle all the task required to function as an independent adult in our society.
For example:

* Can you balance a checkbook?
* Budget to keep your expenses below your income?
* Avoid getting arrested by understanding which activities are crimes and not committing them?
* Read and Write well enough to communicate with the vast majority of people without being misunderstood or misunderstanding people the vast majority of the time?
* Speak and understand the language predominately spoken in the country you live in?
* Read a map well enough to travel to somewhere you've never been without getting lost?
* Know how to operate those bits of technology that are essential to your everyday life?
o (light switches, doors, toilets, zippers, buttons... etc)
* Wear clothes that are semi-conformist to social mores and be aware of social mores well enough to avoid unnecessary conflicts?

If you can do these sorts of things with any reasonable degree of success then you can function in society as an adult( and evidently judging by many people, no success at some of them).

3. Homeschooling/Unschooling cost too much:
You mention that you want to be an artist, many artist can earn something of a living before they are adults (18+). As you didn't mention what type of artist you want to be I'll list a few divergent examples.

* I've seen a number of books published by writers as young as 12 or 13 that made a decent sum.
* I've heard of art (sculptures and paintings/murals) being bought and commissions being given to promising young artist who are participating in projects associated with artist communities or charities many are teenagers.
* Good digital artist are typically judged solely on their portfolio regardless of their schooling, however due to the nature of the contracts involved you may not be able to sell anything in this venue.
* Comic artist can produce comics for the web and many now earn their entire living on it. One I read bought her moderately sized house cash after being a full artist for only about 6 years.
* If you have phenomenal talent or help define a new art form you can even be rich and famous enough to be invited to movie premiers and talk shows.


4. You'll never make any money as an artist:
This one is a legitimate concern, but it can be easily disarmed. Many artist fall in love with the purity of their work, the idea of their genius or their wondrous talent. Unfortunately, most artist don't have enough talent to actually make it as an independent artist. They spend their time and money making things no one but them can want or understand then blame the world for it's lack of understanding.
The important thing to remember is that if you wish to be an artist, it's your job. An artist job isn't making art, but selling it. Yes there are galleries and art dealers and online art stores, these are the retail level of art. As an artist you are making wholesale art. Wholesale in that you are the factory, the designer, and the marketing department of your own corporation.
You must convince people that your art is worth buying, but more importantly you must remember that it's what sells that really maters. But it's up to you how much you want to "sell out", all successful artist sell out. The question isn't if you sell out, but how.
Do you create things that breath magic and beauty and invoke emotions in the people who see/experience it? If so, you created art. The art that sells is the art that speaks to the buyer. Many artist naively think they can control what their art says and to whom it speaks; These artist starve.

The successful artist create because they must, it's in them and must come out else they go mad. But once they've poured their heart into something, they let it go. It's the act of creating that matters, not the creation. The creation's only purpose to the soul of the artist is to remind them of their act of creation. They don't care what the buyer hears from the piece when is speaks to the buyer's soul. They just find joy that something they created touches the soul of someone else.

-------------------------------------
Anyway, I've rambled on a bit. As for how to convince your parents, I hope I've given you a starting point. But the best advice I can give you is to treat convincing your parents like a Unschooling project.

Do a formal report, with numbers and facts and a speech prepared. Like a big report or research project you'd give in school. Show them you can learn by yourself, and can do things that look like what you are forced to do in school. Show them that school is no longer necessary for you.

If you can prove that you don't need school to learn and do things they'd be hard pressed to argue against you. (This is assuming they listen to rational well thought out and researched arguments.)


I wish you the best of luck and the richest of dreams,

StoryFather

[cottonwood]

It sounds like community college might be irrelevant since you want to go to the art institute, but if you change your mind there might be ways around the cost. Here, for instance, the county pays for CC classes in lieu of the teen attending high school. A guidance counselor at your high school might have info, or call your local school district offices or the CC itself to find out. I'm guessing what your dad doesn't like the idea of is CC instead of university. But CC instead of high school is another matter -- CC classes carry more weight (they count as college credit!) toward future university enrollment than high school does. Maybe that hasn't occurred to him.

Someone wrote, "please don't romanticize what it would be like to be 16 and living on the streets." Moving out at 16 doesn't necessarily mean living on the streets, and in this case I'm assuming it definitely doesn't mean that. At 16 a person is old enough to get a job and support herself. Sure, that involves a lot of work for probably low wages in order to support her in doing the work she really cares about, but plenty of people do that at all ages, and for many people (including myself) it is/was an especially creative and purposeful time in their lives. What purpose would it serve for a person to wait until age 20 (say) to do that, when what's being provided for her at 16 isn't working for her? To suggest that she needs to stay at home to have things provided for her (sell her soul, in effect) because making her own life would supposedly be too hard is infantilizing and a good example of school mentality. Obviously it wouldn't work for everyone, but she sounds very capable to me. More than capable -- she's clearly thoughtful, smart, and has the drive. Can't think of what good things wasting her time doing what she hates is going to do for her that heeding her own inner call isn't.