Sleep Schedules

[47jennifer]

My DS (14 months) has always been an unpredictable sleeper, but I'm hitting a point now where I want that to change. His sleep is all over the place...some nights he falls asleep at 8, some nights up until midnight. He's up every 1-2 hours all night. Last night, he went to sleep at 11 pm after DH drove him to sleep in the car, and was up for the morning at 6:30! Frequent wakings all night. He's been fussy all day, so I know that isn't enough sleep.

We're trying bedtime routines (books, bath, cuddling, nursing) which is all well and good, and he enjoys, but if he doesn't fall asleep, what do we do? I would love a bedtime of 8-9, and so we start the quiet stuff around 7:30, but if he's not asleep after nursing, he just gets up and goes back to playing. If I try to close him in the room with me, he screams, and I'm not really willing to turn this into a CIO situation. How do you make it clear to a toddler that it's time to sleep? He just doesn't seem to make the connection between a routine and sleep...

[LuminosaJane]

I've been reading Sleepless in America and I think Kurcinka addresses these issues really well. Basically, she argues that the vast majority of kids need more sleep than we think and that their body clocks function better when they are on a schedule/routine. Crabbiness, meltdowns, tantrums--all can be mitigated or avoided with enough sleep.

She suggests a few things that I think would be helpful in your situation. 1) Keep up with the bedtime routine but consider your child's temperament. For example, some kids are wound up by the bath while many are calmed. Some need more massage or snuggling after a busy or excitable day. Try a basic plan for a certain amount of days--maybe a week--sticking to the time and the events as closely as possible. Keep in mind that bed time (getting ready) is different from sleep time (actually asleep) and make adjustments based on your child. 2) Wake-up time, if it's not consistent already, ideally doesn't vary all that much and sets your day up for an easier bed time and nap time. 3) It sounds like your child may be short on sleep in general--is he napping regularly? Kurcinka suggests that kids who have enough sleep are easier to put to bed and stay there longer on a more consistent basis. Perhaps if you can set a schedule and stay with it for a while, he'll get caught up on sleep and then be easier to put down at night. 4) What sort of activity is your child engaged in right before bedtime? How much exercise/outside time? How much screen time? Kurcinka claims that children who are exposed to tv/computer in the evenings tend to be have a harder time falling asleep. Also she really emphasizes the importance of lots of exercise outside, especially in the morning. The morning light can help set a LO's body clock and make them sleepy in the evening.

Our experiences with Kurcinka's suggestions have been overwhelmingly good. Since I've followed the advice I outlined for you above, naps have extended from 1hr to 1.5 to 2hrs regularly. Bedtime is much easier and my dd has been sleeping consistently until 7am (not straight through, mind you--still wakes up 3-4 times LOL). If you have time, check out her book. I think it's really, really good. Especially the information about how a child's temperament affects sleep. This was particularly enlightening for me and, more importantly, affirmed that her sleep issues were not all my fault (which made me feel better about myself

Good luck, mama!

[kblessinggr]

Getting kids into a routine can be the hardest thing possible, like our three, we just started to have to put them down at the scheduled times, regardless if they're ready or not, the first few weeks if not months will be hell of course, but eventually they'll finally start getitng the routine of going down at those times.

Right now we got them on a routine of sleeping from 8:30-9pm to about 8:30-9am, sometimes waking up at 6am for a drink. Then during the day they'll usually take a nap right after eating lunch, so nap occurs between 1pm-2pm and they'll be down for about an hour (they are VERY VERY cranky if they miss their nap), the baby however is on a slightly different schedule will usually nap a bit earlier than the boys, and will usually goto bed at night about an hour after the boys, then gets a change/feeding at bout 3am, and usually good until the morning when they all wake up.

In short sticking with a routine does work, but will be hell the first few weeks but you have to stick with it regardless if they want it or not.

[mckittre]

I'm also in the same boat with my 15 month old son, so if you don't mind I'll jump in with a similar question.

My big question is HOW you actually stick to a schedule. As in, how do you prevent a kid from getting up again when you say it's bedtime?

If he doesn't fall asleep nursing (the end of our bedtime routine), then he's not asleep. I can literally pin him to the bed (which I sometimes do for awhile), but he hates it, and my tolerance is not much more than 30-45 min of trying to physically prevent him from getting up. If I leave him, he's perfectly capable of climbing off the bed and going to play until I decide to try again.
We try to stick to a pretty strict schedule every day, with only about a 50-60% success rate. How do you actually enforce a bedtime?

[MamaPhD]

DD is only 18 mo and sleeps in a crib, so she can't really get out of it. But what we do is to do bedtime around same time each night regardless. We are in her room with door closed by 7:30pm. If she is tired, then we will do a few books and then bed time. But if she is not that tired, we play, books, etc. and I am outta there by 8pm. We have a couple of plush toys, couple of board books, water sippy, etc in the crib and she plays until she falls asleep, which sometimes is as late as 9pm, but mostly 8:15 or so.
As far as I'm concerned, she can play until she falls asleep.

I think the key to our success is that DD can fall asleep on her own. I tried very hard to get her to fall asleep on her own since she was 4-5 months old. I always tried to put her in the crib while she was still awake. A lot of times she fell asleep at the boob, and woke up as soon as she was down on the crib. So I pick her up, rocked, then put her down, - repeat 3-4x at each nap/bed time. Eventually she got it!!!

Also I had to wake up DD from her nap at a certain time so she can sleep at night. I'd rather have a short nap and a good night than the other way around.
Good luck!

[47jennifer]

I've got Sleepless in America on hold at the library....

So last night we did the whole calming night routine, ending with nursing, and he just wasn't having it. We started around 7:30, as he was getting kind of fussy. He cuddled with me until 8, then got up. We cosleep on a mattress on the floor, so he can get up whenever we wants. My husband then took him for a drive, which didn't work. When they got home he nursed again for quite a while, and finally fell asleep at 10 pm. He got up this morning at 6:30.

As pp asked, how do you keep them down. If I want bedtime to be 8 pm, do I have to physically lock him in the room? He's a persistent child...he won't give up easily and play if he wants out, and I'm not sure how comfortable I am with the idea of leaving him upset. Would that pass?

His naps are all over the place. He's napping right now, went down around 9 am. I'd love to drop the morning nap, but he gets so fussy when he needs sleep! He will probably nap again this afternoon for an hour. But last week he did this weird 3 nap pattern, and the week before that he was sometimes skipping his morning nap! I have no idea how to stop him from napping when he's tired...I try playing and distraction but he gets so fussy in a hurry and will actually lead me up to bed! I'd definitely trade naps for better bedtime sleep, but I don't know how!

I just don't know what to do! I don't know how much to push him and how much he can handle. It's hard!

[SallyN]

I feel your pain. My first child was (often still is) an irregular and unpredictable napper.

I also have a 14 month old.

The first thing that jumped out at me when reading your OP is that you may be missing his sleep window. I'd try getting him to sleep much (much) earlier. I have the most success at getting DD2 to sleep roughly 12 hrs after she woke up in the morning (with a 2-3hr nap.) So if she's up at 6:30am, takes a 2-3 hr nap, then she's usually ready for bed b/w 6-7pm.

That said, I still have nights where I'm exhausting myself trying to get her to settle. Mostly because I *know* she's tired. But she gets so easily distracted by all the new things she's learning to do. I've even resorted to going into my closet (walk-in) to rock her, since it's pitch black in there. (Do you have room-darkening shades in the bedroom? That helps enormously as well.)

I'm going to try taking a page out of recommendations for adult sleep and if she hasn't settled within a half hour, just give up and go back downstairs. Fortunately, she plays happily (as opposed to DD1 who would scream and scream and scream). Then in an hour or so, I try again.

Elisabeth Pantley's "No Cry Sleep Solution for Toddlers and Preschoolers" might be helpful (and at this stage, perhaps more relevant than the baby one.)

[mckittre]

Like I said, I'm having the same issues. I do prevent my son from taking naps at the wrong time, even when he asks, which does help some (but does feel kind of cruel sometimes). He usually gets over it quickly and gets distracted by something else. He's down to 1 nap a day though, and is up forever if I let him sleep past 3PM or so, so it's probably different.

As far as putting a kid down awake and getting them to fall asleep that way at 4-5 months, I'll just say I'm glad it worked for you. I envy anyone who has a kid that'll do that, but it won't really help us now.

[handsandfeet]

I have had similar problems with my now 14 month old in the past. I actually have to agree with the post about getting them to figure out how to fall asleep. DS stopped nursing to sleep at around 10 mos. He would nurse, but not fall asleep, and then I didn't know what to do to get him to sleep. For a while we would rock or bounce to sleep, then that stopped working, too. And he seemed genuinely incapable of getting himself to sleep. So we had to teach him how to do that, and it took a couple of months, but now he can, and it has CHANGED OUR LIVES. He now sleeps 12 hrs at night (waking about 3-4 times to nurse/cuddle), and takes 2 1.5 hr naps (we were down to 1 nap, and now with the change he likes 2 naps AND goes to bed better at night).

We stopped full-time cosleeping and gradually got him sleeping in the crib (by putting him down there for naps, then gradually extending how much time he spent there in the night). This may or may not be an option for you, but it made a huge difference for us, mostly b/c I wasn't always fearing he could hurt himself if he gets up when we're not there.

Secondly, I would put him in his crib awake every time. He would have fun playtime in his crib during the day (I would jump out from behind the wall, making him laugh, play peekaboo, etc), so he didn't mind being in there. At first he would not go to sleep for a long time, but I would sit in a chair right up against the crib and tell him to lie down and pat his back when he did. I also had a music soother that played lullabies. Eventually I stopped having to pat his back and remind him to lie down. Then I was able to move to the rocking chair across the room, and that's where we are now. I sit in the rocking chair with my eyes closed so he doesn't try to engage me, and he usually just lies down and goes to sleep in about 10 minutes. During the times he would cry, I would give him hugs while he stood in the crib and kiss him and tell him I loved him, and that if he would lie down I would rub his back, which he liked. Since everything was so gradual, there were really very few tears.

And let me emphasize that DS was a HORRIBLE sleeper with no schedule whatsoever. Now his bedtime is 8:00, he's usually asleep by 8:10, and he gets up around 8:15 AM every day.

[MountainMamaGC]

My DD functions well on tons of sleep. She NEEDS at least 10 hours at night and takes a 2-3 hour nap every day. If she misses out she is quite the handful.

My friend found sitting at the end of the bed helped. Even if he cried he was not alone. KWIM?If he got out of bed she would put him back and tell him its bedtime. SHe eventually went from the end of the bed to the floor, to just outside the door.

[mrscookie]

My son (1.5) used to be somewhat like what you describe. In particular, staying up until 10 or even sometimes midnight and then sleeping in late in the morning, which I would rather he not because I have to go to work!
Before, I had tried to take him to bed at a time I thought made sense, but he would get out of bed and cry. Now I think, he has made so much progress in his cognitive ability, it's much easier to talk to him and explain that it's time for bed, night-night daddy, we're going upstairs to lie in bed, you can tell me what you did all day, I'll tell you some cat in the hat / green eggs and ham [that I know by heart by now] and then you'll go to sleep!

So my point is, you can keep trying and your child's cooperation may improve with age. At least it did in my case. I think he just didn't understand the concept of bedtime and would not have appreciated good night books earlier, but now he understands. We'll cover up some stuffed animals and say they are going to sleep. He says night-night to his other toys (sometimes I suggest that if he's upset about leaving the toys and that works.)

I'm not someone who likes the idea of getting a child on a schedule, but now it's nice to know that around 8 we'll go upstairs and take a quick shower, read a book in the rocking chair (used so much more now than when he was a babe) and then go to bed. It still takes him about 30, sometimes 45 minutes to fall asleep, but it's a lot better than it was. The way I look at it, at least I get to lie down.

[YayJennie]

I got my son on a pretty consistent sleep schedule around 6 months, and he's still a pretty predictable sleeper now at 14 months, although teething is definitely taking a toll on his sleep. I did 3 major things to help him sleep:

1) Really watch for sleepy cues. As it's been said, if you miss the sleepy window it's hard to get them to sleep and they end up staying up too late and waking up tired. No matter when my son goes to bed, he wakes up around 6:30am. So we've found he really needs to be asleep by 7-7:30pm, or else we miss his sleepy window, he stays up until 8 or 9pm, wakes up tired, and is a crank the next day.

2) Make sleep a priority. So many of my friends have "terrible sleepers", but then they take their kids out at night instead of putting them to bed, or run errands when it should be nap time. When my son needs a nap, we stay home and he gets a solid nap without disturbance. When it's bedtime, we are home to put him in bed. Obviously not 100% of the time, but the vast majority. It's just too important to me (and my son) to stay on a good sleep schedule.

3) Be flexible. My son is on a pretty solid schedule, but if he's not tired around 7:30, I don't force him to go to sleep. I try to follow his lead, taking into account what kind of day we've had and other milestones going on in his life, while still staying close to what our "schedule" is, if that makes sense.

I also don't think that locking a child in the room WITH you and having them cry is CIO. If you're with them, comforting the best you can, then they're not suffering, they're just pissed they aren't getting to do what they want to do. In my book, that's OK. So I close the door at bedtime and hang out with my son until he falls asleep. We usually read and snuggle and nurse, and sometimes he plays for a bit and then I try to get him to lay down. If he's not having that I just sit there until he lays down on his own. My son has never been one to fall asleep on his own. If I left him in the room by himself, he would scream until he made himself throw up. But most nights, just my presence helps him get to sleep and we don't have too much trouble.

With that said, the past 2 weeks my son has cut 6 teeth. The sleep schedule has pretty much gone out the window, and now we just try to comfort him the best we can and let him sleep when he needs it, because he is clearly in a ton of pain with these teeth. You've just got to go with the flow.

[mckittre]

I'm not so worried about him crying if he doesn't want to go to bed. He just doesn't go to bed. He thinks playing on the bed is the most fun thing ever (especially if I'm there to climb on) and just leaving him to do his thing until he eventually falls asleep doesn't work - his "eventually" would be hours! And then I'd end up with exactly the same midnight bedtime I have when I give up on him and just go do something else in the same room. Half the time the nursing to sleep does work at a reasonable time, though. It's just the other half that's killing me.

[marispel]

Do you have access to a crib? At 14 months they aren't really mature enough to understand "stay in bed", but with a crib they wouldn't have a choice.

[dachshund mom]

I have a 14mo and I had to force the one nap issue. It was getting like you described and I was posting here about not being able to get her to sleep. You have to keep busy in the morning. DD is up around 9 and we are out the door by 10, either a playdate or the library. No napping before noon at the earliest. NO evening naps. The sleep experts say they need more sleep, but a 30 minute evening nap makes her stay up 3 hours later at night. Once I started that, she was back to going to sleep easily at 9ish and sleeping till 9 again (wakes to nurse once or twice). She always wakes around 7 and if I'm right there and nurse her back down before she opens her eyes, she sleep 2 more hours.

The other thing is, as usual, teething. DD had an awful time with her canines. It was the only time since she was a newborn that she has stayed awake during the night (other than an ilness).

[dachshund mom]

Oh another thing. If she won't nurse to sleep in 20-30 minutes or is trying to get up, I don't fight her, we just get up. I think sometimes she is wondering what daddy is doing in the other room and needs to go check it out. She can play around the house while I do whatever, but I won't play with her. I try again when we all go to bed. On the very rare occasion when she still won't go to sleep and is clearly overtired, we go in her babyproofed room with the door closed and I lay on the bed with my eyes closed (mattress on the floor). She can read books, play with her quiet toys, or lay down with me. Sometimes she cries for a minute then comes and lays down.