Meal time table manners

[PeachBaby]

Is it okay to post this here? I want to incorporate Montessori philosophy into our daily life at home, so I thought I'd try here.

DS is 18 months. How should we handle eating meals at the table? For example, if I let DS hold his own spoon (I use another), sometimes he starts to bang the food and bowl with the handle side.. he turns the spoon upside down. It is not food that is difficult to spoon up. At first it looks like he is trying to scoop food and I wonder if he is just experimenting, and I should let him do it although insist on him being gentle. Other times, I wonder if that is a bad habit to get him into and I should consistently, without fail, have him turn the spoon around. Or should I start to spoon feed him myself when he begins to do that?

I have a lot more table manner questions, but I thought I'd start with just one first.

Thanks!

[jenfl]

I have to admit that I'm not totally Montessori at home, but I didn't worry about table manners that early. Eating was more experimentation than a formal experience. Using the spoon improperly kind of has its own consequences -- you aren't able to eat the food.

Once she was older and had proved that she was capable of feeding herself properly and effectively, then we started gently encouraging better manners. Now, at 3, when she starts doing things improperly, it's a sign she really isn't interested in EATING any more, and the meal is done. But at 18 months, that connection won't really be there.

[lmk1]

18 months is very young. There's a lot of experimentation that kids go through. Ds is 2.5, and he still doesn't always use utensils, but I always make sure he has the same table setup that we do, because it's important to give kids the opportunity to learn. It takes a lot of coordination to use the silverware properly, and to learn to appreciate the "table manners" aspect as well. I wouldn't even say anything to a child as young as 18months, as it would only create frustration for both of you. As long as you don't make a game out of eating messily, eventually your son will copy the way you eat...kids just naturally do that.

[Artichokie]

at 18 mo I didn't worry about it at all. My Dd got a knife, fork, and spoon like the rest of us but was not required to use them.

Now at 29 mo, before the meal we talk about which foods are for fingers (sweet potato wedges, green beans without sauce for example), and which require and fork or spoon (chicken off the bone, mac and cheese, yogurt, for example). We do gently remind her when needed but we rarely need to.

[lnitti]

agreed with the above pps mostly.

However, I would not allow banging of stuff. that is just plain annoying and would give me a headache.

I would tell them that it looks like they are not eating and ask if they are all done? If he is really just fooling around (dumping food, banging stuff), I would assume there is not much interest in eating at that time. I personally don't think 18 months is too young to make that connection. It is not a punishment to take the food away. Just give it back when he is hungry and ready to eat. Trying to get a kid to eat properly when they aren't really interested in eating is just a senseless frustration. Not worth it.

FWIW, I still have these same conversations with my almost 3 year old and my 6 year old who like to bang stuff, stack stuff (i.e. plate on top of glass), eat with their fingers, etc.

[PeachBaby]

Thanks for the replies!

So how messy do you allow them to get? DS has also been starting to occasionally grab a handful of food and then squeeze them in his hands. When he does it, he seems to enjoy doing it and does it purposefully. Is there an important reason (e.g., developmental reason) that I should let him do this?

[lnitti]

Originally Posted by PeachBaby

Thanks for the replies!

So how messy do you allow them to get? DS has also been starting to occasionally grab a handful of food and then squeeze them in his hands. When he does it, he seems to enjoy doing it and does it purposefully. Is there an important reason (e.g., developmental reason) that I should let him do this?

I let them get as messy as necessary to eat. I have a picture of my dd with sauce all over her face and arms - I can't remember how old she was, I'd have to look up the picture (and check the date).

I would not be ok with purposely squeezing the food. Maybe if it was once here and there, then went back to eating (so mostly eating), I may not say anything, but if that is all she is doing, I would say something and stop dinner if she didn't stop.

But it IS very important for them to have tactile sensory experiences. It is totally normal to see how something feels, what happens if I squeeze it, etc. It is learning. You may also want to introduce some other tactiles experiences. Things that can be squeezed, smooshed, etc. Play doh, foam soap, rice bins, etc. Just make sure you don't think he will eat that stuff.

[PeachBaby]

Thanks, it's great to be able to bounce ideas here!

Okay, here's another one: Within the Montessori philosophy, would a highchair be needed? Or a small chair and table? Straps to keep lo seated? Or let them have freedom to come and go? Should I ever "follow" after them and offer food? If space is limited and budget is tight, is it okay just to have a table and no chair? Here in Japan, it is not uncommon to sit directly on the floor.

[GuildJenn]

We had a kid's table sidecarred to our table starting around then because my son objected to a high chair and we thought, why not?

If the table's close to the floor with no chairs, I call that a win.

[PeachBaby]

Trouble is, he will soon get up after a few bites and run off to play. He is not finished eating, because he will eat more - and needs to, but only if I follow after him trying to get food in his mouth, which I don't want to do. Is it okay (with Montessori philosophy) to contain him or strap him in -- if he does not object?

[jenfl]

At that age, kids are big on grazing. We put a small table near our table and let DD come and go as she pleased while we ate a sit-down dinner. Lunch was usually a muffin tin lunch, left out for her to graze on for a certain period of time. I think Dr. Sears calls it a nibble tray.

[lnitti]

We never did the nibble trays. I don't want my kids grabbing food, and running off with food still in the mouth. That is too much of a choking hazard for me. I do feed my kids when they are hungry even without a nibble tray.

We don't have space to put a kids table near our table. My kids have Tripp Trap chairs. I think it was around 18 months give or take that we stopped strapping dd2 in (dd1 had a hook on high chair until she was 3, then she got her chair). It is important to me that the kids are at the table and we eat together. But even so, the rule is you can't leave the table until you are cleaned up.

[lnitti]

Originally Posted by PeachBaby

Trouble is, he will soon get up after a few bites and run off to play. He is not finished eating, because he will eat more - and needs to, but only if I follow after him trying to get food in his mouth, which I don't want to do. Is it okay (with Montessori philosophy) to contain him or strap him in -- if he does not object?

I personally feel it is still ok, as long as he is the one that chooses when to get up, and you unstrap him. I don't think you should follow after him with food. It is you deciding he needs more, not him deciding. You have no way of knowing what his body is saying to him. Just because he will eat more doesn't necessarily mean he needs it. He won't starve to death if he hardly eats for a few meals.

[PeachBaby]

You all are giving me good ideas, lots to think about. Thanks! I had actually been thinking of doing the mealtimes sitting at the table and then in addtition to that, leaving out a nibble tray for when he goes off to play. Normally I would probably just let DS decide when he wants to eat, but because of weight gain issues, I want to kind of get more food into him (without forcing). But he takes forever to eat, especially meats, even though I shred it to tiny pieces. So here's my next question (which I may also post in the toddler forum):

How long should I let mealtimes last? If DS is still taking spoonfuls, but going at it really slowly, even from the beginning of the meal, do I just stretch out the mealtime? I am feeling like the whole day is just eating, eating, and eating. How long do your mealtimes (at the table) last and how many meals do you give your lo?

[boatrat]

2.5 year old ds will sit and eat for 20 to 30 minutes at a time, and I love this! IMO this is indicative of a healthy attention span. Nak.

[Anandamama]

Thought I would add in that 18 months is old enough (just barely) to learn to sit while eating. I teach a Montessori toddler class and all the children are required to sit while they eat. Of course this is more important in a group setting but the main reason is choking - and toddlers do choke! The rule in class is "while we eat, we sit" and everyone understands that. It takes consistency for them to learn it.
I love the idea of the low, Japanese table for family meals, esp. for the older toddler and young child. Children will be able to see better and participate in meals more fully with that type of set-up. At the same time, if your child is not willing to sit still, and doesn't mind being in a high chair of some kind, I don't see anything wrong with that, especially if that's what works best for you and your family as a whole. If you do use a high chair your child will request not to use it soon enough and you can help prepare him by having a table and chairs his size for him to do various things at, including eating snack.

[boatrat]

Fwiw, my ds was happily eating at his ownsmall table (sidecarred next to ours) at 13 months. We also introduced utensils and glass cups at that age. We started out with the cups only one quarter full to minimize the spillage that occurred.

[Phoenix~Mama]

My DD just turned 19 months. And she eats at a table in small chair at her Montessori daycare. She loves it and does really well there.

I still have her in a sort of booster/high chair at home right now, but dinners aren't really sit down at the moment. I'm thinking about trying to make space for the small table and chairs I have in the kitchen though, as I think she'd get a kick out of it.

Edit: Just wanted to update that I did bring out her small table and chair to the kitchen, where we eat yesterday! It went really well! She did sit and eat very nicely. She got up once, and I asked her if she was all done, and she said no, and sat back down and finished eating, then said all done and got up and I cleaned her up.