It's June 2010 already! Allergy Chat Thread - Page 28

[dannic]

Okay, I think I need to read the China Study. And then some books on the opposite page--or maybe I already have? (read books that say the opposite)

i am getting frustrated with people using that as the be-all end all of nutritional discussion. I think it was Pat that said it was fraught with holes? Don't get me wrong, I think you can be healthy vegan if you have th e money and resources to do so; otherwise omnivores can get more nutrition more easily, IMO...of course, I am biased...but aren't they, as well? It's just getting to me, because it was books like this that caused me to try veganism which seriously messed me up. And I was a whole foods vegan, not precessed crap vegan.
Thoughts, please?

[mamafish9]

Originally Posted by WuWei

mamafish, have you heard of N-MET? http://www.n-met.com/pages/understanding-nmet Looks interesting.

(just saw it on an ad on facebook, how is that for a bio-med resource?)

Here is the extensive patent/ingredient biochem information: http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20090104171

Pat

Hmmm. Well, here's the ingredients:

acetyl-L-carnitine, .alpha.-lipoic acid, biotin, vitamin B1, L-glutamine, Vitamin B6, taurine, folinic acid, vitamin B12, trimethylglycine, and L-tryptophan.

ALA in any significant amount would mobilize metals and dump mercury in the brain if not done carefully. L-glutamine converts to glutamate in the body, which is a problem for many people. For people with CBS+ genes (about 1/2 of us), high B6 and taurine would be a problem long term. Folinic acid is good for some, some need mthf folate. TMG can cause a mess in methylation, depending on what else is in play (good for some, not good for others). Tryptophan is great if you are low serotonin, would be a mess if you are high or swingy and it's given in one big dose.

So, some powerful stuff in there, most of it not good for at least a decent minority of the population. In my current Yasko focus, there is no one size fits all supp that works for everyone. And I think it's very funny they're calling it an "invention". I guess you have to do that for patents .

Looked at their site (sorry, missed that link the first time). I think they are being pretty optimistic that feeding people L-glutamine will increase GABA production. And if it doesn't do that, and turns to glutamate instead, this supp would dramatically increase all the symptoms they are trying to address. It also seems like a lot of $$ for relatively cheap separate ingredients, fwiw.

ETA: Got DD's IgG test back today (96 food panel, USBiotek fingerstick). They do a 0-7 scale. DD only has 2 foods that aren't 0 - whole wheat (which is barely a 1, and gluten is 0), and cane sugar, which is barely a 3 (so barely makes it into "rotate every 4 days" territory). It's pretty funny to see their 10 page rotation diet that only has to rotate cane sugar. Not sure what to think or do about the sugar, but clearly her 35lbs is not due to rampant food intolerances. And I can stop wondering if maybe I've been torturing my daughter for 6 years feeding her dairy & gluten.

[Theloose]

Originally Posted by mamafish9

ETA: Got DD's IgG test back today (96 food panel, USBiotek fingerstick). They do a 0-7 scale. DD only has 2 foods that aren't 0 - whole wheat (which is barely a 1, and gluten is 0), and cane sugar, which is barely a 3 (so barely makes it into "rotate every 4 days" territory). It's pretty funny to see their 10 page rotation diet that only has to rotate cane sugar. Not sure what to think or do about the sugar, but clearly her 35lbs is not due to rampant food intolerances. And I can stop wondering if maybe I've been torturing my daughter for 6 years feeding her dairy & gluten.

Want to start an all about dd thread? You've got a unique situation with ds's symptoms being so obvious and having the autism community to help read them. You're an expert there, but her's are so subtle. I'd be willing to bet she's got some neurotransmitters out of whack, given the highly sensitive stuff. And those could provide clues to deficiencies. It sounds like she and my dd have some similarities.

[Theloose]

Originally Posted by tanyalynn

Can you expand a bit on how you feel? Is your dopamine high right now? Is how you feel related to high dopamine, or high ammonia (or both)?

like I mentioned in the oxalate thread, this might just be more aluminum for me. But the two are pretty similar - high ammonia, low bh4, low dopamine, high glutamate. What I'm feeling is major brain fog, overstimulation (dd's hands or feet in my face while she's nursing is just.too.much and I have to try hard to be nice and not just hit them away) and low dopamine for me is my head grinding to a halt on any topic other than my current interest. Which is this glutamate/pancreas/etc stuff. So literally all I can think or talk about is the connections I'm making. Poor dh! (mine, not yours)

[changingseasons]

That's cool Deb- when I started reading I was afraid you were going to say that she only had 2 foods that were ok. But only 2 foods as slight positives is pretty exciting!!

What a bummer of an afternoon. Went for my followup dentist appointment (that I made a month ago), spent 20 minutes sitting, then talking to the dentist.. only to find out they no longer take medicaid patients. So now, not only do I have to find a whole new dentist and wait longer to get my cavities and old fillings taken care of (wanted to get it done before we started TTC...grr), he was THE only biological dentist that took medicaid, so now I have no safe options for getting my 1 metal filling replaced.

Just got a notice from our co-op that all kombucha products have been temporary pulled from the shelves "due to legal requirements regarding alcohol content testing"... whatever that means. Thought that was interesting.

I don't know what is up with DD, but holy cow. She is SLEEPING THROUGH THE NIGHT!!! Like from 9-ish to 6:30-ish!!!

[dannic]

no clue why I get on here and it posts my same post again--not even in posts! Argh.

[dannic]

Originally Posted by mamafish9

ETA: Got DD's IgG test back today (96 food panel, USBiotek fingerstick). They do a 0-7 scale. DD only has 2 foods that aren't 0 - whole wheat (which is barely a 1, and gluten is 0), and cane sugar, which is barely a 3 (so barely makes it into "rotate every 4 days" territory). It's pretty funny to see their 10 page rotation diet that only has to rotate cane sugar. Not sure what to think or do about the sugar, but clearly her 35lbs is not due to rampant food intolerances. And I can stop wondering if maybe I've been torturing my daughter for 6 years feeding her dairy & gluten.

YAY! FWIW, sugar is listed as one of the top 5 intolerances in some places...

Originally Posted by changingseasons

That's cool Deb- when I started reading I was afraid you were going to say that she only had 2 foods that were ok. But only 2 foods as slight positives is pretty exciting!!

What a bummer of an afternoon. Went for my followup dentist appointment (that I made a month ago), spent 20 minutes sitting, then talking to the dentist.. only to find out they no longer take medicaid patients. So now, not only do I have to find a whole new dentist and wait longer to get my cavities and old fillings taken care of (wanted to get it done before we started TTC...grr), he was THE only biological dentist that took medicaid, so now I have no safe options for getting my 1 metal filling replaced.

Just got a notice from our co-op that all kombucha products have been temporary pulled from the shelves "due to legal requirements regarding alcohol content testing"... whatever that means. Thought that was interesting.

I don't know what is up with DD, but holy cow. She is SLEEPING THROUGH THE NIGHT!!! Like from 9-ish to 6:30-ish!!!

Darn about the dentist, but yay for sleep! When we got one of dh's fillings removed, we paid out of pocket and it was a pretty penny. Most of those type dentists don't take any insurance around here.

[mamafish9]

Originally Posted by whoMe

Want to start an all about dd thread? You've got a unique situation with ds's symptoms being so obvious and having the autism community to help read them. You're an expert there, but her's are so subtle. I'd be willing to bet she's got some neurotransmitters out of whack, given the highly sensitive stuff. And those could provide clues to deficiencies. It sounds like she and my dd have some similarities.

Maybe in a month. Right now, I'm assuming she shares DS' ACAT mutation (fat digestion & metabolism) and giving her the relevant Yasko compounded supp. And giving her the pancreatic enzymes. We'll see where she's at in a month with weight gain on those. So assuming it's a digestive issue at the moment (which would play into the neurotransmitter thing). I'll play with those next for her if things don't level out with improved protein digestion. One interesting data point, she's actually consuming more meat (after being violently anti-most meat her whole life). She voluntarily ate a few bites of chicken tonight, that never happens.

Originally Posted by changingseasons

That's cool Deb- when I started reading I was afraid you were going to say that she only had 2 foods that were ok. But only 2 foods as slight positives is pretty exciting!!
...
I don't know what is up with DD, but holy cow. She is SLEEPING THROUGH THE NIGHT!!! Like from 9-ish to 6:30-ish!!!

Yeah, I had to laugh at the test. For now I'm going to ignore it, and see how the next month goes supporting her digestion more.

And YAY on sleep - when did that start? Any idea what you did?

[changingseasons]

Originally Posted by dannic

Most of those type dentists don't take any insurance around here.

I know- that's why it was such a bummer to actually find one and then lose him...

Originally Posted by mamafish9

And YAY on sleep - when did that start? Any idea what you did?

I have absolutely no idea!

[tanyalynn]

Ok, so it's after midnight and especially since I'm tired and sick, I should be asleep, right? But since I was foolishly optimistic and decided to change up a bunch of our supps the week before we leave town for a month, now I'm sitting here puzzled by how to change up our diet to a low-moderate protein one. It's not even that our dietary limitations are difficult, they aren't much, but I've been, for so long, assuming that paleo-ish would be the answer for DH and not an issue for anyone else. And I guess technically we could go really, really high fat and be paleo-ish and low protein, but that seems darn challenging.

I should focus on: lentils and beans, root veggies and tubers, as many green veggies and fruits as we like, grains (haven't used quinoa in ages, it's sitting in my freezer feeling forgotten), and then figure out how much fat we want/need. Um... and figure it out and execute it in 2 days. I need to stop thinking and go to sleep, but my thoughts are swirling.

Anyway...

CS on the dentist issue. That really sucks. Somehow it seems like it will work out for the best, sometimes weird roadblocks turn into good outcomes (I think the dead-end ENT was probably for the best for us last summer), but right now, I don't know how/where it's a good outcome for you.

JR, M2S, sounds like a great day for both of you (weight loss and finishing up the job--not talking about the ants or climbing kids or stuff like that!).

Danni, someday I think I'll read the China Study. I've read several rebuttals, but for now, mostly I'm sold on fat soluble vitamins and stuff that's easier to digest. And the archeological stuff looking at skulls and dental stuff over time, plus Price. But someday I'd like to be more well-versed in alternate views, even though I think I'm homing in on what works for us. Slowly, slowly homing in on it.

[Theloose]

Originally Posted by tanyalynn

Ok, so it's after midnight and especially since I'm tired and sick, I should be asleep, right? But since I was foolishly optimistic and decided to change up a bunch of our supps the week before we leave town for a month, now I'm sitting here puzzled by how to change up our diet to a low-moderate protein one. It's not even that our dietary limitations are difficult, they aren't much, but I've been, for so long, assuming that paleo-ish would be the answer for DH and not an issue for anyone else. And I guess technically we could go really, really high fat and be paleo-ish and low protein, but that seems darn challenging.

I should focus on: lentils and beans, root veggies and tubers, as many green veggies and fruits as we like, grains (haven't used quinoa in ages, it's sitting in my freezer feeling forgotten), and then figure out how much fat we want/need. Um... and figure it out and execute it in 2 days. I need to stop thinking and go to sleep, but my thoughts are swirling.

I'm working on that one too, Tanya. So far, I'm focusing on crazy high fat cause I don't think I can handle carbs yet. I'm looking at RDA protein (I'm guessing about 70g/day for tandem nursing), a wild guess of 600 cal/day from veggies/carbs, and that leaves 5-6 tablespoons of fat (butter) per *meal* just to get enough calories in. I'm thinking custards that are heavier on the coconut milk, beans/lentils, stir fries with just a bit of meat. Fatty cuts of meat. LOTS of leafy greens (for the K), and plenty of other veggies for feeling full. I think eggs and coconut milk are going to be mainstays. Probably not for right now, but do you do thai food? Coconut curries and tom kha soup sound great. Lunch was lentils with tomato sauce that was heavy on the ghee. For the road, custards and kale chips come to mind.

And as a bonus, I think I'll be able to even drop more supps with that diet, woo hoo!

[chlobo]

Originally Posted by changingseasons

That's cool Deb- when I started reading I was afraid you were going to say that she only had 2 foods that were ok. But only 2 foods as slight positives is pretty exciting!!

What a bummer of an afternoon. Went for my followup dentist appointment (that I made a month ago), spent 20 minutes sitting, then talking to the dentist.. only to find out they no longer take medicaid patients. So now, not only do I have to find a whole new dentist and wait longer to get my cavities and old fillings taken care of (wanted to get it done before we started TTC...grr), he was THE only biological dentist that took medicaid, so now I have no safe options for getting my 1 metal filling replaced.

Just got a notice from our co-op that all kombucha products have been temporary pulled from the shelves "due to legal requirements regarding alcohol content testing"... whatever that means. Thought that was interesting.

I don't know what is up with DD, but holy cow. She is SLEEPING THROUGH THE NIGHT!!! Like from 9-ish to 6:30-ish!!!

Totally sucks about the dentist.

But yareah about the sleep!

[WuWei]

Thanks mamafish.

Yea CS on the sleep.

Pat

[tanyalynn]

Originally Posted by whoMe

I'm working on that one too, Tanya. So far, I'm focusing on crazy high fat cause I don't think I can handle carbs yet. I'm looking at RDA protein (I'm guessing about 70g/day for tandem nursing), a wild guess of 600 cal/day from veggies/carbs, and that leaves 5-6 tablespoons of fat (butter) per *meal* just to get enough calories in. I'm thinking custards that are heavier on the coconut milk, beans/lentils, stir fries with just a bit of meat. Fatty cuts of meat. LOTS of leafy greens (for the K), and plenty of other veggies for feeling full. I think eggs and coconut milk are going to be mainstays. Probably not for right now, but do you do thai food? Coconut curries and tom kha soup sound great. Lunch was lentils with tomato sauce that was heavy on the ghee. For the road, custards and kale chips come to mind.

And as a bonus, I think I'll be able to even drop more supps with that diet, woo hoo!

See, I could admire the problem-solving you're doing, the twists and turns your diet has taken through all this, but know that I wasn't having to do anything similar for us. Except that, uh, I'm not sure DH handles carbs well either. And he gets really bummed out with restrictions. Partly for its own sake, and partly because he's be pretty darn sad if *I* felt stressed and overworked because I was trying to cook differently for him. So I have a month to work on a) my attitude, and b) my repertoire.

I'd be happier with Thai if I could find a curry paste that wasn't too hot. I found a green curry paste that's tasty and had no weird ingredients but was too spicy.

And, um, lots of lard for us? I need to think on this. Or maybe DH will be less sensitive than DD--she's got an unnaturally high level of metals and weird crap, more than a person with her genes should've ever ended up with--which DH doesn't have. But wait, I assume she does fine with carbs, whereas I think I'm better assuming DH doesn't. I can talk myself in circles for anything.

Fruit whip for breakfast, trip to grocery store after breakfast.

[tanyalynn]

Oh, and Shannon? I guess I thought it was obvious, but I re-read and it's not. I REALLY appreciate your advice on this. I am going to be experimenting with DD for the next month, trying to figure her out, and then we'll see how things go for DH, and hopefully by the time I get back home, I'll have a plan. A new plan, a better, amazing, robust plan!

[Theloose]

Try looking for a yellow curry - they tend to be mild. Or use waaay less of the paste than called for, and taste as you go. Eta, I think green curry is the spiciest of all the Thai curries

On carbs, your dh's body has had a chance to be a lot more damaged than dd's, and dd's a lot more active to burn off that extra blood sugar. So it would totally make sense for her to do better with carbs than him. I'm still trying to figure out the balance for us over here. I obviously have carb issues, and my mom does too. Neither of us actually tests diabetic or anything though. The one time we tested dh, after a meal of mostly white rice ( he eats carbs cause they're easy and he can, and he wants to save the good stuff for me. Sweet, but ), his blood sugar was spot on. Yet he has a STRONG history of type 2 diabetes developing in his family. And dd is a carbaholic. Especially fruit. She will happily eat other stuff, if it's presented right, but carbs are her default. And I don't know how I feel about that.

[tanyalynn]

Originally Posted by whoMe

Try looking for a yellow curry - they tend to be mild. Or use waaay less of the paste than called for, and taste as you go. Eta, I think green curry is the spiciest of all the Thai curries

Oh, good to know, I will seek out something yellow next time. Cause the flavor is yum, the spiciness, not so much. And hey, feeding the kids food they *can* eat is a plus in the parenting column.

On carbs, your dh's body has had a chance to be a lot more damaged than dd's, and dd's a lot more active to burn off that extra blood sugar. So it would totally make sense for her to do better with carbs than him. I'm still trying to figure out the balance for us over here. I obviously have carb issues, and my mom does too. Neither of us actually tests diabetic or anything though. The one time we tested dh, after a meal of mostly white rice ( he eats carbs cause they're easy and he can, and he wants to save the good stuff for me. Sweet, but ), his blood sugar was spot on. Yet he has a STRONG history of type 2 diabetes developing in his family. And dd is a carbaholic. Especially fruit. She will happily eat other stuff, if it's presented right, but carbs are her default. And I don't know how I feel about that.

First bold--yeah, I think that's really true.

Second issue--I wonder if just avoiding gluten and eating real food, with reasonable nutrient levels, will avoid that for DD? Plenty of populations with significant type 2 diabetes issues now weren't low-carb historically, I don't think (thinking Mexico/Central American food cultures, maybe I'm wrong in what people ate 500 years ago?). So it can't be destined.

I am a bit, um, concerned about how this newest twist will play out--she self-regulates food the best of all of us, maybe I should trust that (I can hear Pat chiming in now), but she likes both meat and grain-type stuff, and nutritionally I'm not thrilled with lots of grains. But maybe we can avoid long-term health issues by eating reasonably starting from when she's young, and then she'll keep self-regulating well? I wonder if her preferences will change now that she's getting more protein from the protein she eats.

Digestive enzymes should increase vits/mins absorbed too, right? If by no other mechanism that by supporting a better gut environment, avoiding weird stresses. Hmm....

[Theloose]

Originally Posted by tanyalynn

First bold--yeah, I think that's really true.

Second issue--I wonder if just avoiding gluten and eating real food, with reasonable nutrient levels, will avoid that for DD? Plenty of populations with significant type 2 diabetes issues now weren't low-carb historically, I don't think (thinking Mexico/Central American food cultures, maybe I'm wrong in what people ate 500 years ago?). So it can't be destined.

I am a bit, um, concerned about how this newest twist will play out--she self-regulates food the best of all of us, maybe I should trust that (I can hear Pat chiming in now), but she likes both meat and grain-type stuff, and nutritionally I'm not thrilled with lots of grains. But maybe we can avoid long-term health issues by eating reasonably starting from when she's young, and then she'll keep self-regulating well? I wonder if her preferences will change now that she's getting more protein from the protein she eats.

Digestive enzymes should increase vits/mins absorbed too, right? If by no other mechanism that by supporting a better gut environment, avoiding weird stresses. Hmm....

There's the theory that type 2 diabetes and related conditions stem from high iron/ferritin. I guess it would be the iron going around, oxidizing everything? It wouldn't make sense for it to be high carbs (though that's the standard explanation) but I could see how poorly handled carbs (before there's a significant blood glucose issue) could set you up for pancreatic damage, or how blood sugar swings could be bad.

With my dd, I'm wondering if the fruit is for the malic acid/aluminum binding properties, or if she already knows to avoid high protein, or what. But I know a significant portion is high carb/low fat media infiltrating her head We live in a world of really, really challenging comfort foods.

[deditus]

I'm going to catch up later on chat. I freaked out yesterday after being out of vits for a few weeks and just taking Thorne B-Complex and mag glycinate and had to go to the gf store (which houses a DAN! practitioner) and get vits. I can. not. live w/o extra folate, and I have been doing green smoothies every day w/2 c. of greens. What's up with that? Must have a lot of backlog to process.
Anyway my point is that I found a vit c that is derived from tapioca, Mountain States Health Products, Inc. Alka-C. Just wanted to let ya'll know in case you needed another corn free c option.

[deditus]

Originally Posted by tanyalynn

I'd be happier with Thai if I could find a curry paste that wasn't too hot. I found a green curry paste that's tasty and had no weird ingredients but was too spicy.

And, um, lots of lard for us? I need to think on this. Or maybe DH will be less sensitive than DD--she's got an unnaturally high level of metals and weird crap, more than a person with her genes should've ever ended up with--which DH doesn't have. But wait, I assume she does fine with carbs, whereas I think I'm better assuming DH doesn't. I can talk myself in circles for anything.

Have you tried Thai Kitchen? I like their green and red curry pastes.

Lard: we use TONS. I try to add 1 t. fat/serving of veggies for dd and more like 1 T. fat/serving for dh and I. Also, I try HARD to make sure we get raw fat every day, usually coconut oil or avocado, because of it helping with detox (read some Aajonus Vonderplanitz if interested).