Summer Camp

[lilyka]

I wanted your opinions on this.

My kids were given a great gift. A full ride scholarship to a wonderful summer camp for a week. Seriously this is such an amazing offer. its not like we wanted to go and couldn't afford it. We didn't ask anyone. Some people got together and said, literally "we love your family and we want to offer your kids this great oppritunity". So they are completely paying for camp as well as travel expenses back and forth. All I have to do is find a way to get them there and back.

I was able to take the weekend off to get them up there and do something special with the youngest dd (she is one year too young) and my friend is making a plan for getting them home (one of the four days all year I absolutely must work, no exceptions short of death. he would just do it himself but there is no way my xh would agree to my male friend spending that much alone time with the girls. which is fine. I think he is oging to ask a woman for church to accompany him. There are several older ladies who would love to ride along but it would be asking to much for them to responsible for driving themselves out there on a holiday weekend) .

Camp is about five hours from here. Which I do not consider far. I will spend days one and two of camp about half an hour away, could zip up there and get them on day three or five if there was a crisis. Their Godmother lives about half an hour away and quite honestly if Lily had a problem she would rather see her godmother than me coming to her rescue anyway

My children are 10 and almost 14. They have spend a week at a time away from me and do not live with their dad so only see him a few hours a week anyway.

They are both very socially capable, do better without friends hanging around (as far as making new friends and being themselves go), do not have any problem seperating from me for a while. They are so excited about the prospect of camp!! Not at all nervous. It is a church camp run by a church up in Minneapolis (the camp is just a little outside of M/SP) and no one from our church will be there. Originally we thought someone from church would be close by. Plans changed for them.

But I really think there will be no problems. I went to away camp without anyone I knew from the time I was in second or third grade. Starting in 4th grade I went for two weeks. It was about three hours away. The only problem I ever had was that I hated leaving! It was the only redeeming thing in my whole crappy childhood. Seriously I loved it that much.

Their dad totally wants to shut it down. Honestly I think he would be ok with it if it were not church camp. I on the other hand do not have a care in the world for their saftey, well being, and that they will have a fabulous time.

Should I be more concerned? Am I under reacting? Would you be worried for your children? Do you think it is too far?

[GuildJenn]

When I was 13 my parents interviewed a camp director at our house, saw some pictures of the camp, and then put me on a train for Montreal, 5 hours away, with instructions to look for people dressed in shirts like me and if lost, go to information.

With that I found probably the best place and people of my childhood, the camp that empowered me and nutured me and shaped me into the person I sometimes, on my good days, am today. (I went as a camper for 3 summers, CIT 1 summer, and counsellor 1 summer.) My one regret is that the director died before I really had a chance to express that to her.

So I'm all in favour. However, there are probably a few things you want to know:

- do you know people whose kids have gone and what's their take (sounds like you do, but if not, get a list!)?
- staff training, ages, and ratios are key; how do they screen and supervise staff
- if there's a waterfront, how is safety managed? Ditto other activities.
- discipline philosophy, care philosophy, first aid, nurse
- what's the staff turnover? What percentage of campers return every year? These will give you a lot of info.
- which camp organizations do they belong to and which standards do they meet? (here's a sample: http://www.ontariocamps.ca/about/standards.html)

Just because it's a church-run camp do not be afraid to ask questions. But if the answers are acceptable, I say go for it.

[5gifts]

Worried, no way! They will have a great time. My dd started going off for 2 week camp at age 9. She couldn't push me out of there fast enough - and always hates the coming home part.

Safety - well at that age I'd do a lot of 'how to deal with situations' talking with them. Peer issues, how to seek adult help, how to stand up for yourself or go above an adults head if needed. Problem solving - stop to think about things, think smart not in frustration, and decide how to act on it. Even how to be a friend/help someone else having a hard time. A good attitude and level head go a long way!

My DD leaves in 2 days - she is
Honestly, when she or her big brothers are at camp, I don't ever worry one bit. I only think in passing about them and wonder what fun they are up to. They don't hardly give a 2nd thought to home either - they say. And they are 100% homeschooled in a happy secure family, and readily state they like their homelife perfectly well - they aren't out to 'get away' at all. But camp is just so great! (I yearned for it something fierce as a kid & never got to go)

[lilyka]

Actually the people who suggested this gift be given, were campers from the time they were young, met there in elementry school, went throughout their childhood, went back as counselors where he proposed to her and now they are married and have a sweet little boy. So yeah they love it. And everyone else who has been or has had a child that has been has loved it.

Thanks for the other tips. I will be sure to check all of that out.

[childsplay]

No advice here but wow! What an amazing gift! I have wonderful memeories of the camp I attended when I was 13, it was such freeedom - no parents, lots of kids, etc...

I wouldn't worry about it, they'll probably have a blast!

[LauraLoo]

Originally Posted by lilyka

Should I be more concerned? Am I under reacting? Would you be worried for your children? Do you think it is too far?

No. No. No. No.

It all sounds wonderful. Definitely ask questions if you want to. If the camp has a website, you'll probably find a FAQ section. If not, I'm sure the camp is very used to answering lots and lots of questions. When I am not sure if I've asked the right or enough questions, I always follow it up with, "Is there anything else that you think I should know that I didn't think to ask?"

Most (if not all) camps like this have an emergency release form for you fill out - so think about how you would like to fill that out just in case.

I have very fond memories of camp.

[mtiger]

My only concern would be to make sure that week of camp didn't interfere with their Dad's summer time with them.

[ollyoxenfree]

I'm not sure I understand why their dad want to "shut it down". What are his concerns? Are they the same questions you listed? If so, you've had some good advice from GuildJenn and others about addressing those concerns. Does he need to agree to let them go?

My ds first went to residential camp when he was about 8 y.o. It was for a week, and it was about 3 hours from the city. He had a blast. DD was about the same age the first time she went too. She loved it. We did some research first - talked to other parents and campers, went to orientation evenings held in the city in late winter, made sure we understood the ground rules (these camps had rules about no cell phone, no e-mail, no contact except in dire emergencies and we were fine with that).

If you live in a metropolitan area, then for summer camps you often have to travel 3 hours to get to a "wilderness" kind of camp. Even if a camp is closer to the city, with summer holiday traffic, road construction etc. that can often turn into a few hours' drive. So I don't think 5 hours (or even more) is too far, especially for teens and tweens.

We are not particularly religious, but the camp DD attended at age 8 was affiliated with a church - and a different denomination than ours. We discussed it with her and explained that there would be daily prayers and Bible Study. She was happy with it and participated with respect and interest. Since you mention that someone from your church was thinking of going, it doesn't sound like you have any issues about the religious aspect.

So, to answer your questions, uf you've satisfied yourself that it's a well-organized, conscientious camp that maintains good safety standards, then you shouldn't be worried. It sounds like a terrific opportunity.

[lilyka]

Thanks guys.

Last night the xh threatened consequences based on me being an unfit parent if i let them go. i am calling to cancel their registrations today. I know I would probably win but I can barely keep it all together with working and stuff. I don't have the time, energy or certainly the money to fight a custody war.

The girls of course are crushed. As am I. This would have been LIFE CHANGING for them.

(their dad would miss one 3 hour weekday visit and one friday night saturday morning. Not to worry though. he is getting every minute of his visitation that he wants. unfortunately in winning the battle he may lose the war.)

[mamadelbosque]

Send'm! They'll have a blast The last camp DH & I worked at (where I got pregnant w/ ds1, actually... ), we had kids from Spain and all over the world/country. Their parents were *WAY* farther off!! From ages 7-16, seriously. Your kids'll be fine!!

[annettemarie]

Originally Posted by lilyka

Thanks guys.

Last night the xh threatened to sue me for custody on the grounds of me being an unfit parent if i let them go. i am calling to cancel their registrations today. I know I would probably win but I can barely keep it all together with working and stuff. I don't have the time, energy or certainly the money to fight a custody war.

The girls of course are crushed. As am I. This would have been LIFE CHANGING for them.

(their dad would miss one 3 hour weekday visit and one friday night saturday morning. He could pick them up and spend the day with them in a great city at the churches expense as well as make up the whole weekend but is being too pissy to see how this could be fun for him and make him a hero in his kids life. And really, now the kids are starting to cry and protest about going to their dads at all. Not to worry though. he is getting every minute of his visitation that he wants. unfortunately in winning the battle he may lose the war.)

I am so, so sorry. It sounds like an incredible blessing and a great opportunity. Is there no way to get a judge or mediator involved? What a shame for them to miss such a wonderful gift.

[annettemarie]

Also, FWIW, my children have gone to church and scout sleepaway camp since they were 7.

[ollyoxenfree]

Originally Posted by lilyka

Thanks guys.

Last night the xh threatened to sue me for custody on the grounds of me being an unfit parent if i let them go. i am calling to cancel their registrations today. I know I would probably win but I can barely keep it all together with working and stuff. I don't have the time, energy or certainly the money to fight a custody war.

The girls of course are crushed. As am I. This would have been LIFE CHANGING for them.

(their dad would miss one 3 hour weekday visit and one friday night saturday morning. He could pick them up and spend the day with them in a great city at the churches expense as well as make up the whole weekend but is being too pissy to see how this could be fun for him and make him a hero in his kids life. And really, now the kids are starting to cry and protest about going to their dads at all. Not to worry though. he is getting every minute of his visitation that he wants. unfortunately in winning the battle he may lose the war.)

I am saddened by this. Is there anyone who might intervene and help the dad become comfortable with the idea?

Perhaps it won't work out this summer, but is it a possibility to try again next year? With a little time and some reasonable discussion, maybe the dad will agree then and hopefully the same wonderful friends will be able to make the same offer next year.

[TiredX2]

I'm so sorry. Does xH understand that they *want* to go? Do your kids have a good enough relationship with him to be able to talk to him about it?

[CarrieMF]

Based on another thread about custody you posted in Feb I say send them anyhow. You are giving him more than enough notice of the temporary change in visitation schedule. He has no valid reason for trying to keep them from camp & thinks if he throws the court card at you that you'll give in(which you are). He won't make it anywhere in court & he most likely has no plans on actually following through on it.

[lilyka]

They don't talk to him about stuff.

My friends have already said this offer will likely be recurring. I think next year I may just take the week off work and stay up in minneapolis. Not a bad way to spend a week. Then he will have nothing to object to because I will be right there in case our FIFTEEN year old has a problem.

No matter what he says I think his primary objection is a religous one and he hates that the girls are growing up identifying with our faith and somewhat rejecting his. It is too late this year as I have already cancled (we were getting down to the refund deadline. camp is two weeks from now.) and they immediately gave our spots to someone. She urged me to wait until the last minute just in case he changes his mind (they were so sweet) but if someone else can get squeezed in when I know nothing will change why not let them? ....

Oh well its good to know I was not off my rocker or being a bad mom. I don't know why I still listen to him. and worse I don't know why there is still even a peice of me that believes his lies about me.

And since they will no longer be attending I do not mind sharing the web site. it really is a beautiful camp. wwww.stmaryscamp.com.

I see now they have some sort of family camp in October. Maybe it would help their dad feel better about next summer if we went to family camp first.

[GuildJenn]

I'm so sorry. Maybe, if you think they could go next year, you could have the director talk to him too?

[lilyka]

He talked to the director. He even contacted my priest (which felt like a huge violation but my priest handled it very well and now has a better idea of what I am dealing with in other areas....). If I solved one problem I am sure there would be another waiting. There is always something.

it still really effects me when he says I am a bad mother or that I am too stupid to be raising kids. It shouldn't. His opinion should matter least of all to me. but it does and it kills me even when I know it is lies. I am a good mother. Camp was a great idea. and I am smart. I need to focus on the truth and not let him bring me down.

[eepster]

Since his objection was a religious one (which is sort of reasonable, assuming it's not just an excuse to mess up your life) I would ask him to try to find a secular camp for them to go to that still has slots open that he would pay for.

[lilyka]

I don't know if I am comfortable with them going to any of the camps around here. they all suck. Also the religous aspect is what made me so comfrotable with it. I knew they were not going to be taught any values or morals contrary to our religous beliefs. my camp counselors had so much influence on me as well as the other campers.