If I hear, one more time, "He slept through it"..... - Page 2

[Tanibani]

This pisses me off too. Especially hearing it from pro-circ moms who weren't there to witness it. It is my understanding that MOST parents do not observe it. I was there. DH & I insisted on being there. Stupidly, I thought my/our presence would be protective of him. Once those tools touched his body, I knew we couldn't protect him from what was about to happen.

He slept during it - I would too if someone ripped the skin off my arm.

I saw my son's foreskin ripped from his penis.

Perhaps if they saw it, they might feel differently.

Maybe we should start telling parents if they want their son's circumcized, they should WITNESS ONE before consenting to it. That would change their minds.

[Rach]

My sister is due to give birth to her son, in April. His father is not circumsised. His grandfather is. His grandfather is still mad, that his grandmother wouldn't let the boys get circumsised. But somehow, my sister's future FIL has it in her future husband's head that he needs to circ the baby. This makes NO FREAKIN' sense!
An uncircumsised man, will circ his son because his father said to?! But NOT get circed himself?! He said it's not fair because HE would feel it, but the baby wouldn't. WTH?!
Anyway, his best friend is the father of 2 boys, he told my sister that it doesnt hurt, that he was there for both of his sons and all they did was look around cooing. He said they never cried or anything.

Pish.

[Jennifer122102]

I just want to say, and I hope that I don't get flamed for this, that when I did my maternity rotation at the hospital (nursing school) that I saw quite a few circs, different techniques used for all of them, and with the majority of them, the babies were quiet, sucked on a pacifier(sucking is the best way for them to calm themselves), looked around. Not one of them went into a shocked-induced sleep, but they weren't screaming out in agony either. Some of them did cry some. With those that got the needle of lidocaine, that seemed to be the most painful for them. Go figure. Anyway, in no way am I supporting circumcision by making this statement. I'm just saying that it is possible for some babies to "sleep through it" without being in "shock".

[somemama]

Did you measure the heartrate and breathing of those who were "asleep"? Then how do you know it wasn't shock-induced?

I'm sure we all do whatever kind of rationalization necessary to live with the devil we have chosen.

[mattemma04]

//

[Frankly Speaking]

That is very confusing to me. I know how tender that area is and I've heard too many first hand accounts of babies screaming. There was also an AMA sponsored research project to measure the pain that was ended early because the researchers felt it was inhumane to continue. How can these very different accounts exist?




Frank

[LavenderMae]

When my mom did her round on the OB floor when she was in nursing school she also had to witness a couple of circs. She said the babies screamed and turned red almost stopped breathing type of screamimg. She said the baby that was numbed screamed a little less. She also said it was very bloody and after it was done the doctors and nurses just left the babies screaming and walked away.

[Plaid Leopard]

IT just makes me sick thinking about all these poor babies.

My sons are intact, so they didn't have to go through that kind of pain - but they did scream bloody murder when they got their heels pricked for the PKU test, and they were in my arms with they breast right there so they could nurse if they wanted to.

You can't tell me that cirumcision is less painful than a heel prick.

Slept through it!
Ain't buyin' it...

[Eric]

I agree with ya guys.

Slept through it is the biggest crock of crap i have ever heard : What a freaking joke

My friends sister said her baby slept through it, and that he didn't cry at all, and i was like, hmmmmm, let's see, did you ever stop to think that maybe he was in shock you f-in moron. She wasn't even with him during the mutilation. The nurse said that it was no biggie and that he felt no pain, and man i almost lost it.

I'm gonna lose it the next time i hear someone say circ is no biggie, and that they slept through it. Get a clue ya dumba$$ :

Eric

[momto3boys]

Originally posted by Jennifer122102
I just want to say, and I hope that I don't get flamed for this, that when I did my maternity rotation at the hospital (nursing school) that I saw quite a few circs, different techniques used for all of them, and with the majority of them, the babies were quiet, sucked on a pacifier(sucking is the best way for them to calm themselves), looked around. Not one of them went into a shocked-induced sleep, but they weren't screaming out in agony either. Some of them did cry some. With those that got the needle of lidocaine, that seemed to be the most painful for them. Go figure. Anyway, in no way am I supporting circumcision by making this statement. I'm just saying that it is possible for some babies to "sleep through it" without being in "shock".

Well I've seen my fair share of circ's too and what you are saying is a load of bull. Yeah the one's who were lucky enough to get a shot of lidocaine felt less. Isn't it funny that medical associations use circ as a catalyst for pain assesment yet your babies felt almost nothing? Things that make you go hmmm....

Wow. Even if NO PAIN was felt mutilation is MUTILATION. Period.

You probably think

[momto3boys]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jennifer122102
[B]I just want to say, and I hope that I don't get flamed for this, that when I did my maternity rotation at the hospital (nursing school) that I saw quite a few circs, different techniques used for all of them, and with the majority of them, the babies were quiet, sucked on a pacifier(sucking is the best way for them to calm themselves),

Someone's been spoon fed a whole bowl of something.

"Sucking is the best way for them to calm themselves"

Exactly. Whole and on their mothers breast. Not out of dire need to survive intense pain.

Sucking is a sign of pain. It is a sign of stress that they NEED to cope with something. They suck out of NEED.

It's also a good way for a dr to get a baby to shut up and think he's not committing an atrocity. A rape. Can I feel that way? Is it ok for me to see it as that? Some days I really struggle with this.

God I get mad. Frank. How the hell do you do it? How do you not freak on the world? How does my husband not lose his mind over what happened to him? How is my son going to forgive me?

I need to throw up now.

[MamaAllNatural]

Momto3boys, please try to forgive yourself. If you had really known the truth, would you have let that happen to your son? Of course not. I know my Aunt had her first circed, witnessed it and was horrified. She didn't circ her younger two boys. But she still feels guilty to this day. However my two boys just might have their foreskins to thank for it. Her mistake was what I was fortunate enough to learn from. I was decided on never circing before I even got married. My husband wanted to but there was NO way I was going to let that happen. Now he's so happy we didn't and wishes he hadn't been circed as a baby. My point is, now others can learn from your mistake too. There is some positive to it. Just don't be shy to share your story with others and you might be surprised how many babies you can help to be spared the unkindest cut.

[Frankly Speaking]

Originally posted by momto3boys
[QUOTEGod I get mad. Frank. How the hell do you do it? How do you not freak on the world?

I've definitely run the full range of emotions and denials during my journey. I've finally learned to divorce my feelings and emotions from the issue. Of course, every once in a while, the two end up on a collision course and I lose it. Thankfully, that doesn't happen often. The last time it happened here was months and months ago. "J" said something that made those two elements run together and I unleashed on her. That was the first time in a couple of years that I have had a post deleted. As a matter of fact, it got the entire thread pulled for a while. It took me quite a while to get over it and I still feel badly about the situation and the anger I exhibited in that post. I've learned that kind of thing does our movement no good. I really came down too hard on "J" and she left for a while. She was simply trying to deal with a home situation the best way she knew. I am glad to see she has rejoined us. I regret doing what I did and being so harsh.

So, yes, I do get mad. I also try not to take any of this on a personal level. I try not to connect this discussion to my own personal situation. I try to keep my feelings about my personal experiences separate from what I read here and other places. That helps keep me from being angry. That anger can eat you up from the inside out.




Frank

[ja mama]

I have to say my ds1 was circed with my husband in the room holding his hand and talking him through it. My son had lidocane, he still screamed. I was in the hall outside the room, crying. (Now too, at the memory). I went in and nursed him for about half hour, until he was asleep, it took that long for him to calm down. He slept most of that afternoon, very unusual for him. Whenever he was awake he cried if he so much as moved his legs. We had him swaddled so tight he couldn't move. Neither my husband or I had any misconceptions as to why he slept so much that day, or was so fussy the next few days. It seemed so obvious. My little guys circ is 'long enough' that I didn't have to deal with seeing the scalped head of his penis during diaper changes, the knowledge is hard enough.

Mom2threeboys, I think while anger has it's place, it is hard to educate someone, or even get them to think about their stance if you are angry and freaking out on them. If you use your anger to motivate yourself to hear where they are coming from, and get them to open up, you can influence them. If they are not open to you, your message will be met with defenses of equal strength to that of your anger. And that's not the way to accomplish anything. Let your anger be the energy to continue going when you feel the battle is taking too long.

[Jennifer122102]

Originally posted by momto3boys
Well I've seen my fair share of circ's too and what you are saying is a load of bull.

Sorry, but it isn't a load of bull. I'm not lying to you. I only stated exactly what I saw. Just because it doesn't agree with what you want it to, is no reason for you to accuse me of giving you a load of bull. I also stated before that my statement was in no way supporting circumcision.
Sorry to upset everyone....

[Tanibani]

Originally posted by Jennifer122102
I'm just saying that it is possible for some babies to "sleep through it" without being in "shock".

Jennifer, my baby was quiet too. He sucked on a pacifier first (the nurse kept one over his mouth - gee I wonder why? I think it's to help him COPE with what was about to happen) never screamed and then "fell asleep."

So he slept through it essentially (actually AFTER it was done, not THROUGH it - what baby is asleep during this??? ), but I am convinced it was a trauma induced sleep. If someone ripped some skin off my arm, I would too.

Ripping - yes that's what I saw. After he clamped the foreskin, he pulled it off.

[Katambra]

Maybe we should start telling parents if they want their son's circumcized, they should WITNESS ONE before consenting to it. That would change their minds.

I convinced my sister and her dh to watch a video. My bil didn't care. My sister did but decided to do whatever her husband wanted so their baby ended up being circ'd

[DecemberSun]

That's what gets me, the fact that so many parents just get their boy's circ'ed because "every one else is" circumcised... It just doesn't make sense to me, and it NEVER will...