Talk me down from the ledge...

[gardenmommy]

... of quitting and giving DD a bottle. Lol. She is my 5th baby, I've nursed all my babies to at least 2 years, but seriously, I am just feeling SO done! She is almost 10 weeks old, and so hard to feed. She screams nearly every time I put her to the breast, even though I know she has to be hungry. It doesn't matter how long it's been since she's last eaten, could be 30 minutes, could be 6 hours (yes, we've gone that long several times). I'm lucky to get her to nurse 6 or 7 times in a 24 hour period (including night-nursing); usually it's more like 5 or 6. The only way I'm generally successful in getting her to latch on (and stay on, not on-off-on-off-on-off) is to swaddle her really tightly and lie down with her in on my bed. She will.not.nurse if we are out (which happens with 4 older siblings, let me just tell you), she screams if I try to sit in a rocking chair, on the couch, basically anywhere but the bed. She will suck herself to sleep on my finger or a paci, then wake up 20 minutes later screaming because she is starving, and still refuse to nurse. I was letting her have the paci when she was really upset or in the car to calm her, but I've stopped giving it to her. It seems like she wants to only take that instead of nursing, and then gets mad when she doesn't get it (she wasn't getting it that much anyway). I feel like I ought to know what to do, but I can't figure it out. I am dreading every time I need to feed her, because I know she is going to scream. I am tired of holding an unhappy baby, and I don't know what to do. I got one of those infamous boxes of formula in the mail the other day, and told DH I was seriously tempted to crack it open. The only thing that stopped me was not having any bottles in the house, and the fact that I promised it to a friend who is bottlefeeding.

I should add that I've had her seen several times by the chiro, which has helped a lot (she was worse, if you can believe it). I'm thinking of seeing if I can get an appt. with a cranio-sacral therapist; I don't have insurance, so I'm kind of on the fence with this.

Ahhhh... I just needed to get that out there and hopefully find some words of wisdom. Thank you for reading my novel of complaint.

[tinybutterfly]

That sounds rough!

How often CAN you nurse her all swaddled on your bed? Some babies like being wrapped up like that.

Is she having tongue issues maybe???

[aylaanne]

nak

Are there parts of her body that are touched or NOT touched in bed v. sitting up positions? Does she tolerate nursing sitting up while swaddled? Have you tried a bottle of ebm, and does she seem to prefer it? What about a tiny cup? Are there any issues with reflux, tongue tie, or her palate? Do you have a forceful let down? Some babies have a mouth that is shaped funny to make early nursing difficult, but as they grow, these issues are resolved. For instance, both my kids have small mouths, and I have large breasts. Early nursing is hard for us, but after a few months it gets much easier. With DS, it was latch, with DD, it's my let-down that ticks her off.

This, too, shall pass, and the next thing you know, she'll be sixteen and dating and you'll wish that the biggest problem you had was that she screamed when you tried to nurse her. Of course, with four other kids, you know that already.

[PatioGardener]

Any chance you have a fast letdown/abundant suppy?

[flavorfull1]

I am interested to hear other people's suggestions. My DS would ONLY nurse lying down starting at about that age and then just recently, like last week (he is now 4.5mo old) he was ok again with nursing sitting up. It was really frustrating because I had to lie down to nurse, he absolutely would not nurse sitting up in any position. He had nursed fine sitting up before and now he doesn't mind it either. Weird. He does have tongue tie but I didn't see how that was possibly it? I am guessing he just needed to grow/get more body support on his own b/c I wasn't able to provide it in the way I was holding him. We just nursed a lot at home-he would wait until we got there and then cluster feed. He'll eat in public now too. Come to think of it, it was right around when he started noticing and being interested in the outside world. I don't know if there are any words of wisdom in my rambling, more like yeah I hear ya and it sucks, but mine grew out of it

[gardenmommy]

Well, thanks for the replies!

So, I try to just swaddle and nurse lying down as often as possible, because it's less stress on both of us, plus, at least I know she's getting fed. That happens probably 4 times a day, plus anytime at night she wants, since we co-sleep. If she is really sleepy (like waking up from a nap, still drowsy), sometimes I can get her to latch on and nurse somewhere else (worked today at my DDs' dance recital for about 5 minutes).

RE: overactive letdown. I do have a strong letdown usually once per feeding, so sometimes I let her nurse until I feel a letdown, then latch her off until the flow subsides. However, sometimes she will nurse right through it with no problem, so I'm not totally sure that's the problem (no gagging/choking, etc.). Also, I tend to only let her nurse on one side per feeding, since she nurses so erratically, it just helps me not get engorged so much. She seems to be satisfied, so I guess it's working.

I'm thinking tongue tie isn't the problem, although I freely admit I'm not an expert on that, lol. She has a good suck, can extend her tongue pretty well, etc. When she was born, she seemed to have a pretty small mouth, and it was hard to get her latch well because I'm not exactly tiny, iykwim. However, as the weeks have passed, she does seem to have gotten over that. And she is gaining weight and filling out, having wet/poopy diapers, so I know she's getting milk.

I have not given her EBM in a bottle or cup. I hesitate to offer that, since I think she might prefer that to the work of nursing. She prefers a paci to me a lot of the time, and that has caused problems. Is there a benefit to doing that that I'm missing? I'm open to options, here!

RE: swaddling. I have tried swaddling and nursing sitting up, with mixed results. Works sometimes, not always. I think she maybe doesn't like the pressure on her body? Is it possible for babies to exhibit signs of SPD this early? We're dealing that with two older children.

What are some major signs of reflux? I'm not super familiar with it.


Thanks so much for listening to my woes, and offering your advice!

[aylaanne]

nak

The only reason I asked about the bottle/cup thing was to determine if it was an overactive letdown issue. My dd goes through crying jags at the breast and at the bottle and I think it's becausethe milk never stops flowing from either. Sometimes I have to burp her several times during a feeding to get her to calm down enough to suck. Have you tried the clutch/football hold while sitting up? It may mimic lying down enough for her to nurse more comfortably.

It honestly sounds like a letdown issue to me, and I think it will pass. Is there a drop-in breastfeeding group near you? My hospital hosts one once a week where moms can hang out, nurse, and discuss their concerns with the LC who hosts it.

[ewe+lamb]

Have a look at this nursing position - www.biologicalnurturing.com run by Susan Colson LLL Leader and IBCLC - it seems to work wonders, I would agree with Patio Gardener in that there are over supply issues here and maybe nursing twice on the same breast may help (block nursing), also think about breast compression - good example on www.drjacknewman.com click on videos and looks for breast compression - even for over supply as it pushes the thicker hindmilk - although we're not supposed to call ithtat nowadays - lol, to the front and lets the baby nourish itself on the creamer milk which can help with the gas pain that she may be having especially as it could be lower down in the intestine. Find the positions which help you and maybe think about learning to nurse in the wrap - I presume you have one as you are on your 5th child - lol, it helps with massaging the tummy as well as keeping baby upright for nursing - the gravity thing helps cope with the strong let down. Good luck I'm sure it'll work out soon enough and if you feel like you are going to crack - just post here and we'll all give you the support you need to take one day at a time.

[Parker'smommy]

Hugs, momma. This sounds exactly like my bfing relationship with my ds, except he wouldn't even side lie and nurse. Every.single.feeding. was a chore. He cried, and I cried through many of them. It was so frustrated and I began to worry that it was affecting my relationship with him. I contemplated bottle feeding so many times.

But, I stuck it out, and around the 3 month mark, he started to just do better. It wasn't overactive letdown either...I just think he had to fuss it out. As it turns out, when I went back to work when he was 6 months old, he wouldn't even take the bottle. And then that became the chore....sigh. Thank goodness, I quit when he was 8 months old

This was over 8 years ago, and I wish I had some words of wisdom for you or some techniques to tell you but I simply can't remember...lol. I did start going to LLL meetings around that time and I got a LOT of emotional support. It really helped to have that mother to mother network. We worked it out somehow and we went on to nurse till he was 3 years old Good luck! You can do this!

[gardenmommy]

Originally Posted by ewe+lamb

Have a look at this nursing position - www.biologicalnurturing.com run by Susan Colson LLL Leader and IBCLC - it seems to work wonders, I would agree with Patio Gardener in that there are over supply issues here and maybe nursing twice on the same breast may help (block nursing), also think about breast compression - good example on www.drjacknewman.com click on videos and looks for breast compression - even for over supply as it pushes the thicker hindmilk - although we're not supposed to call ithtat nowadays - lol, to the front and lets the baby nourish itself on the creamer milk which can help with the gas pain that she may be having especially as it could be lower down in the intestine. Find the positions which help you and maybe think about learning to nurse in the wrap - I presume you have one as you are on your 5th child - lol, it helps with massaging the tummy as well as keeping baby upright for nursing - the gravity thing helps cope with the strong let down. Good luck I'm sure it'll work out soon enough and if you feel like you are going to crack - just post here and we'll all give you the support you need to take one day at a time.

Sorry it's taken me so long to get back and post here. Life has been so crazy lately, I just haven't been online much.

Thank you. I looked at both of those websites. I really don't think it is OAL or oversupply. I think is just that she is a fussy, finicky baby. I do block nursing with her, and she has nice yellow, curdy poops, so I think she is getting enough, and a good balance of milk. She isn't gassy, thankfully. She is much happier when I don't eat dairy, so I've cut that out of my diet almost completely (except for the occasional kefir smoothie and butter). I think it is something I am just going to have to tough out. She hates to nurse away from home, and if I give her the paci at all (like to help soothe her in the car), it makes everything worse. So, do I listen to her scream in the car (which makes everyone else crabby), or do I listen to her scream when I try to feed her, because she wants the paci (which makes all of us crabby). Ughhh...

She is such a princess. Can't stand to be in a wet or dirty diaper, can't stand to be hungry, wants everything to be just so, wants to be at home in her routine. How in the world did I get a baby (#5, no less!!) like this?!!

So far, I'm finding the most success with swaddling her up like pigs in a blanket (lol!), and either on the couch (I can lay her on a pillow to bring her up to breast level) or the bed. Sometimes she just screams until she is exhausted, and then finally she will nurse. She is nursing better at night, for which I am very grateful. I feel like a bad mom, but she loves being in her swing, way more than she likes me to hold her. She will snuggle in the wrap, but will.not.nurse in it. So, I guess it's just going to be something we deal with. I'm in for the long haul, but I sure hope it gets easier.

[ewe+lamb]

Just a thought but if she's still having trouble with you touching her then have you thought about seeing an oesteopath/chiropractor - someone like that? There may be something more physical - it's just a suggestion and I have no idea about how your birth went but might be worth looking into. Glad to hear that things are getting steadily better for you all. Take care.

[gardenmommy]

Originally Posted by ewe+lamb

Just a thought but if she's still having trouble with you touching her then have you thought about seeing an oesteopath/chiropractor - someone like that? There may be something more physical - it's just a suggestion and I have no idea about how your birth went but might be worth looking into. Glad to hear that things are getting steadily better for you all. Take care.

1-hand typing... seen the chiro several times, it has helped, but not been the magical cure-all, iykwim. i'm not sure i would say things are getting steadily better. more like we are just not getting worse, we've made it this far, and i'm not giving up.