It's nearly 11pm, again, grrrrr--update and wish me luck!

[sapphire_chan]

Okay, I've decided I'm annoyed by dd's sleep.

Typical day:
Awake around 9am (with a 30 minute awake period at 7:30 if we take dh to work)

nap at either 11am or 4pm or none, (depending on what she's into, no consistency. She's fallen asleep on her first outing of the day and not fallen asleep after getting home from running around at the playground) duration is 1-4 hours, again, no consistency

sleepiness--9pm to 11pm/midnight

Actually falling asleep without screaming about it, 11pm/midnight

And I say without screaming about it, but half the time she fusses for food to help her stay up and/or ends up tantruming about the idea of getting into bed with us. Sometimes it's like she *has* to scream to relax enough to nurse and sleep.

anyway wtf?

[lonegirl]

Sounds like my son's schedule (at that age and now...minus the tantruming now). His inconsistancy is his consistancy. He has always gone to bed with me...anytime from 10p-1a and will sleep to at least 8a (when mommy's at work as late as 10 with daddy). His naps have always been from 1-3+hours (even now). Or he just keeps trucking (especially if we don't go for a stroller walk/drive).
For the past year we have a consistant routine...even if the time varies. Nighttime pee, brush teeth, book with mommy in bed, lights out and sunggle with mommy. It has become such a solid routine that the other night dh went to give him his toothbrush and he freaked saying "no mommy has to be here and help me with my pee first"

[sapphire_chan]

Oh, she'll cheerfully start that routine, but if I try to use the bathroom myself, forget about it.

And by the time she's willing to initiate the "head for bed" routine, she falls asleep after handing me the book and latching on.

[ssh]

11 to 9 is 10 hours. If she is taking a 2 hour nap then that's 12 hours a day. How old is your DD? If she's over 1 years old 12 to 14 hours is normal. If she's 3-6 10 to 12 is normal. So a lot depends on her age.

[bobandjess99]

sigh
it is 621 am
Ds has not gone to sleep all night. He has literally stayed up all night long.
How does this happen?

[LorenaAZ]

Can you do some exercise with your DD in the mornings? I take my 16 month old for a bike ride in the mornings (I ride, she sits in one of those attachable bicycle seats). Every morning that I do this, she takes a midday nap without fighting, is in a much better mood, and goes to bed early at nights. I am vacationing in a foreign country now, which is why I have to use an attachable child seat. But in the US, I use a burley trailer. She loves her burley and will often nap in it. How much exercise does your DD get? Does she go to daycare? If not, does she go to the park every day, or does she have any kind of kinetic outlet to drain energy?

[lonegirl]

Originally Posted by sapphire_chan

Oh, she'll cheerfully start that routine, but if I try to use the bathroom myself, forget about it.

And by the time she's willing to initiate the "head for bed" routine, she falls asleep after handing me the book and latching on.

Agh yes. Ds does the same. Really. When he brushes his teeth I pee so we are ready at th same time.

[sapphire_chan]

Originally Posted by ssh

11 to 9 is 10 hours. If she is taking a 2 hour nap then that's 12 hours a day. How old is your DD? If she's over 1 years old 12 to 14 hours is normal. If she's 3-6 10 to 12 is normal. So a lot depends on her age.

Oh, she's getting plenty of sleep, on average, it'd just be a billion times easier on me if she'd get it from 9 to 7 instead. Or even 7 to 5, in some ways.

She's often sleepy by 7, and by 9 she's a tired and whiny pillbug and all of our "get out and play with other kids" activities start at 9am, and need the car meaning driving dh to work at 7:30. So the whole day would be more cheerful if she got up earlier.

The whole evening would be better if she could fall asleep when she was tired instead of when she's exhausted.

Same thing for naps. She'll ask to nurse in bed and be almost asleep and then her eyes fly open and she's up for another who knows how long. And it pretty much guarantees she'll still be sleepy and whiny (whiiiiiiiiiinyyyyyyyyyy) and demanding and clingy. On days when she does just go to sleep we not only don't have the pre-nap unhappy toddler, she's also less grumpy after her nap.

By the numbers, she's getting enough sleep, by her behavior and moods, she's not getting the sleep when she needs it.

[sapphire_chan]

Originally Posted by LorenaAZ

Can you do some exercise with your DD in the mornings? How much exercise does your DD get? If not, does she go to the park every day, or does she have any kind of kinetic outlet to drain energy?

Not much, unless we walk down to the children's museum. I just don't like spending time at the park in the heat and the sun and getting her out of the house before the heat starts is a fight and a half. (See? Another reason it'd be far better for her to sleep 9 to 7 or earlier.)

OTOH, when we did get to stop off at a park after dropping dh off at work, it didn't seem to make any difference to her nap. When she was young, there was definitely a difference.

[chocolatefish]

What would happen if you started your day consistently at 7 or 730am every day ? It would probably be painful for a time but might kickstart her into an easier routine for you - maybe a nap around lunchtime and bed around 8?

I have a friend who has your exact routine with her LO, and she's starting to get really tired of it. They miss morning toddler activities because her LO sleeps until 9 or 930, then naps at 4 ish so they have to leave any afternoon playdates early... then she gets no alone time in the evening at all as her LO goes to bed at 1030. It's a high price to pay for getting a lie in in the morning!

[sapphire_chan]

Originally Posted by chocolatefish

What would happen if you started your day consistently at 7 or 730am every day ?

, yep, going to combine this with the morning exercise idea. Lay out clothes the night before so I don't have to think about them and just get us up, pottied and dressed and out the door.

Dh is off at training for 3 weeks, so we'll be able to get outside for a walk all mornings and hopefully after 3 weeks, she'll be in the habit of sleeping earlier in the day.

I'm also going to make an effort to get the lights off around the house earlier.

[kalamos23]

Starting the day earlier was the ONLY thing that worked for DD, so I have hope that it will work for you too! It will also be great that you have 3 weeks to work on it by yourself - I think that will really help too.

[widemouthedfrog]

Yes, as much as I am into child-led activities, I am also keen on parent and scheduling sanity.

My dd was a terrible sleeper until around 2 1/2, so I feel your pain. She is probably still a bad sleeper but it is far, far better than it used to be.

I always had to force the issue when it came to nap time, bed time, and awake time. I decided that a 3 pm wake up from her nap was the latest she could go without being up half the night, and then I figured out how much nap time sleep she usually needed to get. Then we would sit in a dark room and rock or nurse until she fell asleep, and I'd wake her up promptly. When I did this diligently, she would go to bed at a better time.

[alfabetsoup]

I would get her up at 7-7:30 every day. I would do the nap routine around noon, whether she goes to sleep or not, and I wouldn't let her nap at any other time. And then I would do bedtime at 8pm, whether she goes to sleep or not. No CIO or anything like that but I would definitely try to get her on a schedule that works better, if you do it consistently it'll get better pretty quickly.

I think that watching for a baby's sleep cues is fine but toddlers are a whole different ball game. My almost 2yo can just stay awake. She doesn't give sleep cues, really, and will fight tooth and nail to be allowed to stay up. But once you start the bedtime routine, she's fine with it and goes to sleep without a fuss.

[sapphire_chan]

Just figured out a big part of it--she doesn't eat enough at dinner.

We were snuggled down to nurse to sleep and she suddenly un latches and asks for food. Had some more to eat, and now we're NAK and she's snoozing. (Yeah, I know, I should get to bed, but NAK is sort of like having time to myself. )

So, now I understand things a bit more, but it doesn't help. I tried offering her more food earlier and she ignored it. Maybe going for a walk after she pauses at dinner? Or taking out the ladder for her to climb up and down?

[sapphire_chan]

Might've fixed it with a party.

Out at a friends house, with a big yard surrounded by a few hundred feet of woods on all sides, so dd got to run around naked for HOURS. She napped at 4pm, fell asleep at 11pm, as usual.

Woke up before 7:30 this morning!!!

Went to the children's museum with lots of excitement and didn't nap until 6. I let her sleep and did some extra driving to give her some more time. Went shopping and got her up and chatted away at her drowsy little self. She fell back asleep in the car, got her into the house and onto the bed asleep.

She's stirred for pottying and some nursing, but that resolved itself in 20minutes even with a tantrum-mare (when they're asleep but cry and complain just like they do when awake "nooooooo THAT, no no no thaaaaatttt"), and she's back asleep.

Wish me luck!!

[sapphire_chan]

:

[carrie a.]

might just be the age/stage. we have other sleep issues as well but just recently anne has been trying to stay up as late as possible and comes up with every excuse (inc. eating and saying she has to poop) to prolong the bedtime routine. it's driving me crazy. i've also noticed that she's a lot more ummm controlling during the day - like she'll tell me to pick something up for her and no one else is allowed to do it and she won't do it herself. they might just be trying to assert themselves and take control over things and their sleep is one of those things. does that make sense?

[sapphire_chan]

Whew, finally got to sleep. And even got up with the alarm clock.

Going to go for a walk soon. : that it allows for an earlier nap.