Huge Projects due in one week! UGH! - Page 2

[ollyoxenfree]

Originally Posted by Maggie05

Not to try to pass the buck, but maybe to give a bit of perspective... (as a teacher)

1. Project-type assessments are very "trendy" in education today. My supervisor and principal are always checking lesson plans to see "alternative assessments that address varying learning styles". It is demanded of us that we assign these types of projects that allow students who are more artistic, visual or auditory to be able to express those skills.

I may be in the minority, but I appreciate the variety and flexibility of projects that tap into different learning styles. I like to see my dc challenged to try different approaches. As a parent of a child with some writing issues, I'd say it's been helpful too.

I think the projects described by the OP are good. It's the high expectations and extremely short deadlines that are problematic.

Originally Posted by Maggie05

2. While I do teach High School, that is not that much different than 8th grade, so...one week, right before the end of the marking period, I handed in my lesson plans to my supervisor. I was trying to catch up on my grading, and students were reading and watching a movie connected to the reading in class. I did not assign homework for about 4 days, giving everybody a little break. When they were returned to me, there was basically a reprimand written on them that students should not go without homework. We are a district trying to raise test scores, and each night there should be homework assigned. I got the message.

I see your perspective as a teacher and I'm sympathetic.

It isn't always just the school authorities. There are a few schools nearby where the parents demand lots of homework and rigorous academics. The neighbourhood is filled with aspirational parents who think that their kids need tough assignments and hours of homework to prepare for competitive university programs.

These are the same parents who turn a simple poster presentation into a complicated arts and crafts/computer graphics effort. And then dispute the grade "they" received when the teacher doesn't mark the results high enough!

Personally, I'm okay with project-based learning. The situation described in the original post seems extreme though. The expectations are unrealistic in the time provided to complete the assignment. Particularly at this point in the school year, when I find that there are so many competing demands. My dd has missed several days of school for track meets, a field trip to a nearby Shakespeare summer festival, rehearsals for school orchestra performances... These are all school-related activities. It's a little frustrating to also have extra assignments and tests because the teachers are trying to get report cards ready and they need a few more marks to add into the grading. And I won't get started on the whole "raising test scores" matter, since that wasn't what the OP was about!

[Maggie05]

I was less replying to the extreme example in the OP and more replying to the general complaints in the thread regarding projects and homework.

[GuildJenn]

Originally Posted by Maggie05

Homework is often a district policy, required by the school board. Teachers who don't assign these types of projects are labeled uncreative, or not addressing learning styles. Sometimes I really feel that teachers can't win. They are damned if they do, damned if they don't...

I know those projects are hard, I am a parent and a teacher. I admit that I heave a sigh when I see the instructions for them. But I can see the other side, because I am in it.

I agree with you on the "can't win" statement - except that for me the critical part of this thread is that the teacher didn't give the assignments earlier. I think organization and respect (on both sides) can go a long way.

If families know an assignment is due far enough ahead, they can plan to support it. But if it's only got one weekend and requires research and stuff that can be really hard. Sometimes our weekends are really full already.

In general I think the issue with the discussion you outlined with your supervisor is that some homework is good and some is not. If the only measure of homework is "is it assigned each week" - it's not a very good evaluation system.

[FedUpMom]

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There are a few schools nearby where the parents demand lots of homework and rigorous academics. The neighbourhood is filled with aspirational parents who think that their kids need tough assignments and hours of homework to prepare for competitive university programs.
***

Please don't blame the parents. Parents don't hire or fire teachers, we don't make curriculum decisions, we don't make homework policies. Before we bailed on the public schools, I tried to bring up the homework-overload issue and got nowhere. The school's constant argument was "Lots of parents want more homework!" I said, "I'm a parent and I want less homework. I know I'm not the only one." I designed a survey so we could get a better look at what parents want and the principal refused to send it out. She wouldn't even look at it.

There may be parents out there as you describe, but they don't actually run the schools. Schools do what they want, for their own reasons, and when you complain they claim they're doing what the other parents want. It's called "parent triangulation".

http://kitchentablemath.blogspot.com...ngulation.html

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by FedUpMom

***
There are a few schools nearby where the parents demand lots of homework and rigorous academics. The neighbourhood is filled with aspirational parents who think that their kids need tough assignments and hours of homework to prepare for competitive university programs.
***

Please don't blame the parents. Parents don't hire or fire teachers, we don't make curriculum decisions, we don't make homework policies. Before we bailed on the public schools, I tried to bring up the homework-overload issue and got nowhere. The school's constant argument was "Lots of parents want more homework!" I said, "I'm a parent and I want less homework. I know I'm not the only one." I designed a survey so we could get a better look at what parents want and the principal refused to send it out. She wouldn't even look at it.

There may be parents out there as you describe, but they don't actually run the schools. Schools do what they want, for their own reasons, and when you complain they claim they're doing what the other parents want. It's called "parent triangulation".

http://kitchentablemath.blogspot.com...ngulation.html

Totally OT, but nice post!!!! I have experience myself and now have named the beast.....

[LauraLoo]

Originally Posted by FedUpMom

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Schools do what they want, for their own reasons, and when you complain they claim they're doing what the other parents want. It's called "parent triangulation".

http://kitchentablemath.blogspot.com...ngulation.html

lol! I wish I had heard this term a year ago & understood the concept when I was sitting in a kindergarten orientation. The K teacher told the parents that she'd be sending home homework every week because, "The kids really like to do homework! They really do!" She was so convincing that I thought I must be the only parent there with a child that would definitely not be thrilled with homework every week. Now I know that the next time something like this happens I need to stand up and question it.

[sunnmama]

Originally Posted by FedUpMom

***
There may be parents out there as you describe, but they don't actually run the schools. Schools do what they want, for their own reasons, and when you complain they claim they're doing what the other parents want. It's called "parent triangulation".

http://kitchentablemath.blogspot.com...ngulation.html

Did you coin this term? I googled it, and the first few pages of relevant hits refer back to this post, the blog post, or references to the blog.

I'll agree that it is a weak argument to "blame" other parents for school policies. Schools and administrators should have strong reasons to back up their policies, beyond "parents want".

That said, I'm certain that for every parent who wants A, there is another who wants Z. You can't please all the people all the time. I can understand administrators pointing out that they get pressure from opposing points of view.

Parents who want a lot of homework absolutely exist. Here, in a school with little homework, I know parents who pay to send their (gifted! very, very advanced!) children to Kumon on evenings and weekends to compensate. Culture seems to play a role in what is considered an appropriate amount of homework in my area.

[ollyoxenfree]

Originally Posted by FedUpMom

***
There are a few schools nearby where the parents demand lots of homework and rigorous academics. The neighbourhood is filled with aspirational parents who think that their kids need tough assignments and hours of homework to prepare for competitive university programs.
***

Please don't blame the parents. Parents don't hire or fire teachers, we don't make curriculum decisions, we don't make homework policies.

Parents - at least some parents - choose which schools their children attend and the choice is based on academic program expectations. These parents have chosen private schools that advertise the "academic rigor" of their kindergarten programs. They pay for Kumon and Sylvan and other tutoring services to provide extra hours of school. They have chosen high schools with intense IB programs that are known for expecting 4 hours of homework per night.

These parents HAVE made curriculum decisions by seeking admission for their children at these schools. They very much influence school policy by supporting these schools.

I have known public school kindergarten and primary teachers who tell me that they get requests from parents all the time for more homework, extra worksheets, and ideas for extra drills to be done at home. I have also observed out-of-district parents vying for spots at "high standard" public schools - where the standards are based on government testing and they are met by giving lots of homework.

I have even known parents who complain about the amount of homework their children get nightly and the expectations for the quality of the finished product of projects, yet they continue to pay massive amounts of tuition for these private schools on the grounds that the schools have the highest academic standards and are the best prep for their children. Clearly, by paying tuition, the parents have chosen and support the curriculum and the homework policy of these schools.

There are many parents who dislike homework overload. I think it's unrealistic to deny that there are some parents who think homework is an indication of a good school and want to see their children with lots of it.

ETA: Of course, the teachers should listen to the parents who object to homework overload. There are ways of satisfying both groups without turning it into a competition between parents.

[aussiemum]

Originally Posted by EFmom

Good grief, how I hate the homework in general and the projects in particular.

I'm so sick of spending $$$ in printer ink and craft crap at Michaels. And god forbid, the kids should ever get a long weekend or a vacation that isn't ruined with multiple idiotic projects. My husband is a public school teacher and he hates them more than I do (and he doesn't assign them to his students).

What I hate the most are the projects with some inane unrelated craft tacked on. If my kid wants to do studio art, she can enroll it in. But writing a book report and cutting it up and gluing it to fake sandwich materials doesn't make her learn anything better, doesn't make it "fun" and isn't a good use of her time. It's just stupid.

Yep, I totally agree. I love to see how the whole art/creation process takes place in their minds when it comes to 'projects', but I hate the stress & tears that happen when a project is not working out as planned the night before it is due. In my mind, stress & tears for days on end should not be part of the 'project' process. Not at age 9 anyway.