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post #101 of 109
Random contributions....

Yeah, this is where my understanding runs aground. A lot of how it's "supposed" to work doesn't apply to DS, and Yasko stuff does seem to work, but not always clear why.

Tanya, fermented foods are often very high in glutamates. Just something to keep in mind with the kimchi. (And that causes headaches for DH - just in case the stomach aches are ammonia and the headaches are glutamates...)

I suspect your DD is still pretty high in ammonia, and like you say, you're just ducking under a line for a bit with no symptoms. With B6, I found it took about a week before up or downward shifts took full effect.

Also, low protein day might have decreased tyrosine intake, so lower dopamine. But before bed seems to be low dopamine time around here anyhow, so try looking at blink rates tomorrow and see how it goes.

I'm currently supping DS on the dopamine that is in the comt-- supp in very small amounts. Got his blink rate up from 2/min to about 8/min a few times today. So for kids who are really, really low, based on what I'm seeing and what I've read, there are often several things contributing to the low dopamine, and it takes a long time to fully address.

DS has pancreatic gene mutations, and he also has a mutation that specifically impacts his ability to digest fats. And he's a big kid, always has been, no obvious poop signs of fat issues. Does better on LOTS of fat soluble vites, that might be the only clue I can think of that he's not absorbing fat all that well. Breastmilk and coconut fats are all a lot of MCT, and I suspect that helped a lot.

Floating poop can be gut bugs - see if he gets die off from the enzymes.

You can test neurotransmitter breakdown products in pee and blood, although there's not always good agreement on what they mean . But just behaviorally, I'd say a lot of kids are pretty schmucked. I've been counting blink rates a lot lately (it's addictive!), and there's a lot of kids that are nowhere near normal.
post #102 of 109
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by whoMe View Post
no time again.

i did a horrible job explaining the enzymes - definitely read more.

serine proteases:
http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ult...Proteases.html

No greasy poop here, either. And no clear intolerance symptoms for me, even though I had plenty. Hmm... dd reacts to me eating stuff, but doesn't react to the same foods herself nearly as much. So that wouldn't point to leaky gut on my part. Which would fit with the low aminos, i think? Sorry, i'm totally incoherent on lack of sleep, stealth computer time and trying to run out the door

eta: and i don't know that the mechanisms for b6 and b12 storage are actually the same, just that both are stored.
I didn't expect you to write out everything, just giving me things to think about and look up is plenty. Thank you for reading all those train-of-thought posts, as I was trying to sort things out this morning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mamafish9 View Post
Random contributions....

Yeah, this is where my understanding runs aground. A lot of how it's "supposed" to work doesn't apply to DS, and Yasko stuff does seem to work, but not always clear why.

Tanya, fermented foods are often very high in glutamates. Just something to keep in mind with the kimchi. (And that causes headaches for DH - just in case the stomach aches are ammonia and the headaches are glutamates...)

I suspect your DD is still pretty high in ammonia, and like you say, you're just ducking under a line for a bit with no symptoms. With B6, I found it took about a week before up or downward shifts took full effect.

Also, low protein day might have decreased tyrosine intake, so lower dopamine. But before bed seems to be low dopamine time around here anyhow, so try looking at blink rates tomorrow and see how it goes.

I'm currently supping DS on the dopamine that is in the comt-- supp in very small amounts. Got his blink rate up from 2/min to about 8/min a few times today. So for kids who are really, really low, based on what I'm seeing and what I've read, there are often several things contributing to the low dopamine, and it takes a long time to fully address.

DS has pancreatic gene mutations, and he also has a mutation that specifically impacts his ability to digest fats. And he's a big kid, always has been, no obvious poop signs of fat issues. Does better on LOTS of fat soluble vites, that might be the only clue I can think of that he's not absorbing fat all that well. Breastmilk and coconut fats are all a lot of MCT, and I suspect that helped a lot.

Floating poop can be gut bugs - see if he gets die off from the enzymes.

You can test neurotransmitter breakdown products in pee and blood, although there's not always good agreement on what they mean . But just behaviorally, I'd say a lot of kids are pretty schmucked. I've been counting blink rates a lot lately (it's addictive!), and there's a lot of kids that are nowhere near normal.
So far it's not looking like gaba and glutamates are really big deals for us. I'm keeping it in mind, and maybe things will show up differently now than they have in the past, but we've eaten lots of kimchi in the past at times, sometimes 2-3x/day for good stretches and I haven't noticed anything bad. But maybe I was missing it, or maybe it was masked with other stuff that now is gone and I'll see it easier.

And I'm going to stick with the GABA and grapeseed extract for a bit, but neither did anything, well, noticeable. But I'm going to give other stuff time to settle and then experiment.

From what you and Shannon are saying, amino acid intake and usage is a fairly short-term deal (though high ammonia can linger a while til it can come down, sorta like toxins) so I may want to keep protein at at least a moderate level for tyrosine (and probably other important stuff)--so that could make the dopamine dip.

Today was the first full day of digestive enzymes for DS, I was just giving him the pancreas glandular before, I wonder if this will bump up his dopamine like it seemed to for DD and DH. Betting not, but maybe I'll get lucky.

I've asked DH to think about how he feels, he's had lots of kimchi at times with no issues (and I expected digestive symptoms from him), but again, maybe things will be different now.

I think I'll try to get a bit more protein into DD, try to just to tip into the land of enough tyrosine to make dopamine. Just looked it up, 4-8yo girls have an RDA of 19 grams... DD got 9 grams with dinner (it was a microwave dinner when the day went weird)... probably below the RDA for the day but not by a lot.

I'm not sure I'll see die-off in DS. Historically, I've had to get a LOT of metals mobilized, far beyond what he can deal with, before I see symptoms. I've done several things now that have made vitC need jump that have not shown other symptoms in him. But it makes him seem, well, bogged down, either slowly things just aren't great, or there's a lack of forward progress. Confusing--it can be a slow and subtle response.

But, I *think* as long as we don't have acute symptoms to deal with (headaches, stomach aches, distinct tip downward with behavior), then I can plan to stick to the plan for the next 8 weeks or so and hopefully be in a better place by September. With my summer reading ongoing, so maybe I will see the need to fiddle with something in the meantime.

DS: methylation support, digestive enzymes, kimchi (keeping glutamates in mind), give it some time to see what changes... read more about dopamine and MAO, and keep the new stuff (gaba, grapeseed, sphingolin, ora-placenta and increased amount of DHA)

DD: digestive enzymes, kimchi (keeping glutamates in mind), keep an eye on ammonia and how big her ammonia bucket turns out to be... already her vitC need is starting to drop, so watch how fast that happens... with a somewhat stable gut and a lower vitC need, I can get back to the ALA!

I love ALA. Even in DD, who's never had any of the concerns I've seen in DS (it's been really subtle stuff for her), I've seen cognitive improvements with the ALA. I want to do more rounds.
post #103 of 109
Thread Starter 
Holy moley (copy/paste th- e for now)...

Um, yesterday was day 2 of digestive enzymes for DS, he was an annoying pill but I thought it was just the ups and downs of childhood. Um, he pooped after breakfast today, as usual, and it was GReeN. Almost blue-green, but distinctly green. He ate at home yesterday like we all did (we are thirty mins from leaving, it was just too weird to not write down), no weird or new foods... um, maybe the digestive enzymes are doing something? Wow.
post #104 of 109
Yep, sounds like! Right timing, right symptoms. (DS had 3-4 days of LOTS of nasty, nasty poop). I hope it doesn't interfere too much with traveling, but great that it might be doing something really obvious for him!
post #105 of 109
Thread Starter 
I just wanted to get back to this thread, start reviewing things (I did not get nearly as much computer time on vacation as I'd expected, so all my reading is delayed) and start updating...

Mostly I think I need to wait a few more days to see what's stable and what's not. Can't tell if DS is sick, or maybe the variability in supps, esp the comt-- one, have been messing with him. Weird, weird poop yesterday, fussy today, and the only change is that very recently I've been consistent about 2 comt-- supps per day instead of just 1. DS, today, needs quite a bit of vitC but that's partly why I'm wondering about other stuff.

In terms of cognitive stuff--it's a good time for DS. Good progress in lots of areas, subtle stuff other people wouldn't necessarily notice, but I see it. Really hoping to hear good news at this afternoon's eye appt (3:15 CDT).

DS is still sometimes a bit spacey, a bit unfocused--I've seen it come and go, haven't seen a pattern yet, but I really want to understand. But I think I need to let other things settle first.

Interesting try to match up biochem ideas to TCM. I wonder if glutamates from the heat of summer (and/or ammonia?) look like the TCM concept of excess heat? DD's tongue is pretty red, she's less heat tolerant than she's ever been before, somewhat irritable, still some stomach aches and headaches, and it's hot/humid esp since we returned home to Texas in July/August, and I'm finding that with only 2 weeks at home between our vacations, I'm having trouble getting back in the swing of good cooking. Too much grain and meat for the kids, too little green veggies.

TCM says that heat symptoms in summer are common, probably moreso in very warm areas, and cooked veggies (raw for those with good digestion), less meat, some fish, various fruits are cooling, all will help. Plus a few grains, most of which aren't a fit for us, though corn is cooling and drying. May work corn tortillas back into the rotation a bit more--heck, easy to do when we go on our next trip.

More substantive updates to come in the next few days. And I haven't counted blinks in ages, need to find a time with the A/C off (or not blowing in their faces) and see how they're looking today.
post #106 of 109
Another possibility for dd's heat tolerance - after living in both Austin and California, and visiting back and forth, my heat tolerance gets used to an environment pretty easily. Like, when we moved back here it was June and I was able to happily rollerblade several miles to a friend's house and didn't realize (or believe) that it was 90+F outside. So it might be the contrast of a month away from the heat that's making it worse for your dd?
post #107 of 109
Thread Starter 
That's possible too. We were only away for a month, but it's about 95F here, and humid, and our trip was all much cooler and less humid and overall so much more pleasant (except for all our great friends here, and DH being here too). Funny thing is, DS doesn't seem overly warm. Today he grabbed some full-length pants because they were the first thing he found, even though there was at least one pair of shorts in his closet. And it doesn't seem to bother him (his fussiness/etc was before he was dressed).
post #108 of 109
Is ds usually affected by heat the same as dd?
post #109 of 109
Thread Starter 
I don't remember DS ever really complaining about being too warm... I'm sure he must get too warm sometimes, but I don't remember him coming in from the backyard because of the heat, or saying it's too hot in the house (we keep the house fairly warm, I think the A/C is set to 83 or 84 now).
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