Any help is appreciated - Page 3

[KimberlyD0]

Oh and I ment to say.. if he is in fact a horrible abusive man then by all means do everything you can to minimise his exposure to your DD. I would never say a father has the same rights if he is in fact abusive.

[KimberlyD0]

Originally Posted by MissLotus

There is a lot of space between "not allowing access" and 50/50 custody. Great if that worked for your friend, but that doesn't mean it's necessarily the greatest idea for children and it certainly doesn't mean it would work for the OP. I am a little puzzled that on this thread, over and over it's made out as though the OP has suggested denying access to their child. Using her discretion as to custody issues, which anyone does in this situation, is hardly telling the father he can't see their child.

To be honest it was the "I'm doing him a favor" line that got to me. I can't really explain why, but it just hit me the wrong way. The way it came across hit me the wrong way.

how much time then is a father entitled to so he too has equal oppertunity to bond with his child? whats the right answer? I don't think there is one.

[MissLotus]

It isn't always equal, true, and it's not always equal in a married partnership; if one parent is staying at home, they definitely see a lot more of the kids than the parent who is out working. But that doesn't mean, necessarily, that each parent should then a part-time job simply so they each have an equal amount of time with the kids.

Since OP's state is not a 50/50 state, she could simply go straight to court and not have to listen to his disconcerting threats. But he has asked her not to, because he doesn't want to pay child support. She is also doing him a favor by not making him pay child support. I am pretty sure that any mother would be jarred to hear her child's father suggest that her child not live with her any more, when she has been the primary caregiver and financial provider as well. Someone who makes such statements is less interested in co-parenting than controlling, and someone hesitant to pay regular child support does not sit well with me.

[Bad Mama Jama]

friendly reminder from your local mod

please keep in mind that the OP came to us for help. make sure your comments are helpful and constructive. do not attack one another on the boards. that is not within the spirit of the Mothering community. thank you and i now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.
bmj

[lach]

A lot of times law schools will have legal clinics where you can get legal advice for free or very cheap. It's the law students doing the work, but under the supervision of a professor. I notice that you're in MA, and the state is crawling with law schools so maybe contact some of them and see if any of the clinics deal with custody cases?

(And, fwiw, I'm on team Red Flag, particularly over the jealousy of the 7 year old. No, it is NOT normal for a grown man to be jealous of a 7 year old. Especially to the extent that he has to move out. That is entirely inappropriate. You sound like you have a good head, OP, and you know that there are big issues even if you're so close to the relationship that it's hard to take an impartial look. Which is totally normal: how can anyone step back and take a global view of things when you're one of the subjects? But I think that there are some wise words on this thread from BTDT moms that you should seriously think about)

[LorenaAZ]

Let´s see.....he threatens to take OP to court if he doesn´t get to see his daughter at least 50% of the time, tells OP their daughter should live with him instead of with her, tells OP that her 7 yr old daughter is to blame for their relationship fallout, talks OP into NOT going to therapy for fear of them comfirming that in fact she is right to feel the way she does, has temper problems, doesn`t want to be forced to pay child support. Instead, he wants to pay for things that DD needs as they come up.....and having been there and done that, I`m sure anytime DD needs something, the OP needs to kiss up and be submissive to the exbf in order to get it. He wants to have complete control over OP`s life to the point that she is being told to allow him to see and take DD as he pleases without any kind of set schedule. These are all red flags to me. I understand we are only getting 1 side of the story, and that`s all we are going to get....but having BTDT, this just screams to me like controlling and abusive behavior from his part. This does not in any way, sound like a loving father wanting to coparent his DD.

I am just getting out of a situation of extreme control from exhusband. He kept all our belongings, the house we bought while married, and our only vehicle. All I wanted was my DD, and he knew it. So he used that to threaten and control me in every way imaginable. I`m a full time college student and had to depend on his "goodwill" (me kissing up) to borrow the car to take my DD to daycare everyday and go to the store to buy food, etc. Even though we lived separately and were no longer together in a relationship, he controled every aspect of my life. I will have my court hearing June 22nd and my DD and I are spending the summer in Europe with family. The stress relief of being away from him is incredible. He also bought things for DD like the OP`s exbf, but every single time she needed something it was a struggle. We either had to argue about it, or I had to kiss up, or a combination of both. And of course, it always was him "doing me a favor"! He never wanted the courts involved and even though he makes A LOT of money, refused to pay for an attorney. I had to get legal aid on my own and do the entire divorce myself. I can`t wait until the money for child support is automatically taken out of his paychecks and I no longer have to hear how I`m taking all his money and he can`t do all the fun stuff he was doing pre-baby. Another point of view, that perhaps also applies to OP`s exbf, is that my ex only wants to be involved with DD so that his family and friends don`t judge him or label him as a bad dad - he totally plays the victim for them, and even has his status as "married" on facebook as his little way of lying to the world making it seem like I`m leaving him because I`m an evil wolf and he`s the good little abandoned lamb. He does the bare minimum to earn the label "dad." So, while the OP`s exbf might say that he wants DD at least 50% of the time, it might just be to earn his "super dad" label in front of society & family and to spite OP-- not really out of sincere love to his daughter.

Well, this came out really long. I just wanted to share this because there are so many red flags with this guy, and it`s astonishing to me that so many well meaning Mamas are willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. BTDT too many times and recognize the type 20 miles away.

[goodlife2010]

A little history on Me & BF-bare w/me

Avani-My bf and I have never lived together. I nixed that idea after he started making angry statements about my ex-husband(7yr old's father). BF does not even know my ex-husband but insists on calling him "f -ing clown", "girl"..etc when I bring up my ex's name in the context of parenting issues. My ex husband picks his daughter up for visitations and is very amicable about parenting our child.
I am a very mild mannered person so my BF's outburst are a bit much for me sometime. I can honestly say with a clear conscious that I have never been in such a verbally abusive relationship. He has called me some very abusive names when he gets upset. Do I call him names in return...I have. It is a draining relationship.
I only agreed to let him have the baby at his place for the first two wks of June. I agreed to this while I was (am) post partum. I regret the decision b/c I have cried every time I left his place to visit her. I visited her once last week during the week and then over the weekend. He says he is not comfortable staying at my apartment(he lives in a house). He has spent the night but rarely. I told him I would do whatever he needed to be comfortable but he can give me no suggestions.
He got upset recently b/c my 7yr old would not ask him to hold the baby. She only wanted to hold the baby when I had her. This went on for a couple weeks. So, my bf actually said, if she continues not asking ME to hold her when I have her in my arms she is not going to be able to hold her at ALL when I am around. Does that make sence?..he said my daughter is disrespecting him when she does not ask him. Truth is, my daughter does not like him. She is not a defiant child but she will walk right by him at times and not say hello. I have talked to her about this and she is getting better.
BF has tried to be nice and take the 7yr old outside in the past but ever since the baby came she feels left out. I understand this is natural but I think my bf is being immature...isn't he?. I mean, this is a man who has referred to my 7yr old as an "interference"....again, just plain immature. When I was pregnant he got angry w/ me b/c my ex-husband said congratulations to me about my pregnancy!. My bf actually said to me that the ex should not be asking me about the bf’s business!!!!...huh?-since when is a congratulations a question about my bf’s business??
I finally told him last night I have had enough and I want to be on strictly dropped off and pick up status w/him. I do not want to be w/him romantically. He is to pick his daughter up at the front door of the house and leave. He actually said he needed to "see his child's environment" and therefore had to come in my home to get his child...I mean really folks?!..come on!. As he left my place yesterday he said "I always knew you were a whore". Those are the names he calls me when he is angry. I called a therapist yesterday and will begin therapy ASAP. I obviously have no clue how to make wise choices when it comes to the men in my life.
He doesn’t understand that his comments about my 7yr old coupled w/ the way he refers to her dad, his angry outburst, comments about how he prefers I dress, telling me I can’t have a cordial exchange of words w/ex husband, ex-husband can’t go near his child…etc…etc. It is all just become way too exhaustive for a 40yr old woman who should no better. Shame on me for making this huge mistake.

[Latte Mama]

Oh mama, NOT shame on you! You sound like your eyes are open and you're thinking clearly now. Since this seems to be a new arrangement with the visitation, you can stop it whenever you want. It's not working for you. Talk to your new therapist and go to court.

Hang in there and know that you don't have to make all these decisions on your own.

[VocalMinority]

I don't have time to read all the other responses, so hopefully this isn't redundant.

Our state has a pretty reasonable schedule for gradually introducing more time with a NCP, when the parents split up while the kid is still an infant. http://www.in.gov/judiciary/rules/parenting/index.html (You'll want to click on Section II-A.)

You should write up a proposal for your (ex?)-BF, showing that while you think the baby DOES need significantly more time with you NOW, you do plan to give him more time with her as she gets older and this is what he can expect. You don't expect him to just be dependent on your whims, as time goes by. Then do that and LET him threaten to take you to court! Most likely, an attorney will advise him that he can't get a better arrangement through the court than what you are offering and he'd be wasting his time and $.

In your heart, you know you must base your decisions on what is best for your baby, not on pressure, manipulation, fear or the path of least resistance. And you know your baby needs to be mostly with you, right now. If HE were thinking about the BABY's needs - not his own - he would know you are right.

It IS true that the baby needs to bond with him, too. She just needs to do it in short, frequent segments, not three days away from you, four days away from him. If you've already agreed to that, change your mind! You made the wrong call and standing behind what you promised is NOT more important than doing the right thing for your baby.

Although my state does not promote it as the standard arrangement, I DO think 50-50 custody (for OLDER children) is often the most fair. To an 8-year-old, Dad is not a less-important parent just because he's male. Dads can cook, supervise homework, drive kids to soccer, volunteer at school, tuck in. Dads who don't want to shouldn't have 50-50 custody, but those who do should have the chance - and kids should have that time with them.

But NOT 3 months after they emerged from their mother's body!!!!!!

Parenthood means self-sacrifice, especially when you make babies with someone you're not going to spend the rest of your life with. Later, you will have to sacrifice time with your child, so your child can spend it with him. Now, he needs to sacrifice the time he wants because your child needs to be with you.

Be strong. Do the right thing.

[doubledutch]

i'm glad you told him you don't want to be in a relationship with him anymore. it will be nice for your older dd not to have to be around him anymore - beyond just not liking him (and why would she?) she is probably scared of him. getting into counselling - again, that is awesome. you're taking strong steps in the right direction.

i think the next thing to do is to get a formal, legal custody agreement, one which gives you full physical custody and him visitation. ask for child support, his share of unreimbursed medical expenses, and his share of child care (if you intend to use child care in the future).

document the verbal abuse, including any adult witnesses if there have been any, even if it was only someone you were on the phone with who heard him in the background.

[MissLotus]

He sounds awful. Don't want to say "I knew it", but - I knew it. It's always that type of guy that makes the ugly threats and doesn't want to pay child support. It's the way they react when they feel they're losing control of you. The way he speaks to you is utterly deplorable and OP: You do. not. deserve. that. The [I]"this is a man who has referred to my 7yr old as an "interference"....I] statement... Just no. Your 7-yr-old does not need an adult in her life that thinks of her that way and doesn't respect you, and I certainly do not blame her for not liking him. She is showing good sense and self-preservation... be thankful she has enough sense of self to know instinctively that someone like that is not someone to like.

Don't feel ashamed. No one can see into a crystal ball and know how people are going to act. But you CAN make good decisions going forward. I think you said your goal was to live with him next year - think about why on earth your goal would be to have a relationship with a "man" who is horrifically disrespectful, difficult and thinks of your daughter as an interference in his life.

Knowing that trying to negotiate anything with him will be an endless battle, do go to court. If he gets mad, he gets mad - sounds like he's always angry anyway! You don't need to make excuses or apologize to him or explain a thing. Just because you were in relationship with him doesn't mean you have to suffer forever. Trust me, trust me... just like I (and some other women on this thread) can recognize the behavior a million miles away, I can also tell you that the only thing that will make it stop, or at least curb it, is to legalize your arrangement. Yes, he will threaten and be ugly about it. But isn't that what he does now? He wants a reaction from you. He wants to control you. Take the fun out of it for him by keeping things strictly business - and MEANING it. I know - don't I know - how expensive lawyers are. As has been mentioned, you may qualify for legal aid, and until then, you can call up any family law office and ask for a consultation. Some offer it for free (just ask) or at a reduced rate, and you go in for half an hour and ask your questions. Empower yourself with information. This endless drama with your ex does not have to be this way - only as long as you allow it. You have more power than you think. So don't be afraid to use it. Ugly threats and filthy names gets old fast. It's okay to say, "Enough."

[Avani]

Yikes. I hope he respects the boundaries you requested. Based on what you have described of him i highly, highly recommend getting a custody agreement in place ASAP. Good luck

[SleeplessMommy]

it sounds like you have ended the relationship. that is a great decision, his behavior is not normal or nice or acceptable. you won't regret it.

[*MamaJen*]

Hey mama,
I wanted to share some resources with you about emotionally/verbally abusive relationships:

Books
Why Does He Do That: Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men, by Lundy Bancroft
The Gift of Fear, by Gavin de Becker
Women Who Love Too Much, by Robin Norwood
Codependent No More, by Melody Beattie
The Verbally Abusive Relationship: How to recognize it and how to respond, by Patricia Evans
Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay: A Step-by-Step Guide to Help You Decide Whether to Stay In or Get Out of Your Relationship, by Mira Kirshenbaum
The Emotionally Abused Woman : Overcoming Destructive Patterns and Reclaiming Yourself, by Beverly Engel
The Sociopath Next Door, by Martha Stout
It's My Life Now: Starting Over After an Abusive Relationship or Domestic Violence, by Meg Kennedy Dugan

Websites
youarenotcrazy.com
http://www.ndvh.org/ -- National Domestic Violence Hotline website
EQI -- Emotional Abuse
Symptoms of Emotional Abuse
Signs of Abusive Relationships
Emotional Abuse Quiz
DomesticViolence.org
BPD Central -- resources about Borderline Personality Disorder
Love Fraud -- resources about sociopaths
Leaving Abuse
National Institute of Mental Health post-traumatic stress disorder site
The Survivor Manual -- Inspiring and Empowering Survivors to Lead Joyful Lives

Articles
Love and Stockholm Syndrome: the Mystery of Loving an Abuser
Warning Signs that You're Dating a Loser
Surviving a Breakup with Someone Suffering with Borderline Personality Disorder
Breaking Up With a Borderline
Narcissist or Sociopath? What's the Difference?
For Abused Women, Leaving is a Complex and Confusing Process

Hotlines
National Domestic Violence Hotline -- 1.800.799.SAFE (7233)
List of state hotlines

Other
Mosaic -- An online risk assessment tool for domestic violence, by Gavin de Becker
Searching for Angela Shelton, video streamed on hulu.com

Abuse 101
Gaslighting -- how abusers convince you that you're crazy
The cycle of abuse -- don't confuse the honeymoon stage with real change

[Phoenix~Mama]

I'm sorry you are dealing with this kind of UAV only three months postpartum!! I've been there... still dealing with my own UAV. You're therapist will help you get through it if you have a good one. And lots of women on here are truly awesome for support as well.

Check out MamaJen's links. So many of them are very inspirational and eye opening and lend strength as well.

Lundy Bancroft's book even has a chapter dedicated to child custody.

Good Luck!