Should I provide after-school care to my niece and nephew? - Page 2

[childsplay]

First of all - Typhoid Mary??? That is so funny!!

Here's my experience with after school care ( I'm a childcare provider) -
It's like starting your entire day over again at 3:00.

It's a lot of work, (and IMO totally not worth it, especially EVERY DAY) the kids are tired, hungry, wound up, needing homework help, wanting your attention, wanting to go out, wanting to stay in, fighting, playing, getting frusterated, wanting alone time, not liking the snack, wanting more snack, not wanting to play with the after school child......and BTW, you need to get supper started at some point and the baby needs changing.

I cut my after school care down to one day a week - and only one child (I have three elementary kids of my own and daycare toddlers) and I still have to mentally gear up for that one afternoon. The main problem is behavior. I've had some doozies - the shriekers (if they don't like snack, etc....) the pants poopers, the butt touchers, the hitters, the saucy ones, the toy breakers, the baby smackers, you name it.
It's disruptive, and upsetting to all the other kids, and me.

Personally, I'd pass on it. As badly as you feel about your DN, you'd feel worse if he started touching one of your own kids. That's pretty serious behavior in my books.

IF though, you decide to take them, here are a couple suggestions.....I'd set some very firm groundrules.
I'd have activities for your DN to do everyday, at the kitchen table where you can see him. Painting/drawing, clay, reading, printing, math, etc.
Don't let him out of your site.
If say, everyone's watching a movie in the living room, give him a folding lawnchair (you know the comfy umbrella style ones) to sit in. This way you know he won't be on the couch, armchair, blanket, whatever with any other children. ( I did this with the child I had who used to try to touch the other kids) Sit in the room with them (grab a book or sweep the floor etc...)
You would have to watch him like a hawk. It's very hard to do with other kids and distractions.
Make a house rule that nobody goes in your kids bedrooms except them (this is actually great because it saves the rooms from being trashed)
No closed doors (except the bathroom)
This drove me nuts when I had to do it - fortunatelyl it was just until the Mother found someplace else for the child - I had so much else to do, so many other kids who needed me but I had to shadow this kid because if I didnt he'd be pulling another kids pants down behind the tv.

I still say though, every day is a huge commitment, because you'll be looking at in service days, school cancellation days, possibly spring break and summer vacation.

[Fuamami]

First of all, thank you to everyone for your input! It's really helping me process this.

Originally Posted by lonegirl

Personally I think he sounds like he is just immature...not dangerous as some have thought. He probably thinks it is funny. Is it appropriate? No! Is it something that can be corrected? Yes.

Yeah, I tend to agree with this to an extent.

He does think it is funny/entertaining to bully, which I think he learned from his dad and the kids at school. I'm not that concerned about my kids' safety, however, for a couple of reasons. We have talked pretty extensively about what to say when dn does XYZ, and they seem to be able to handle him pretty well. And, unfortunately, dn spends a majority of his time in front of a screen, so even my 3 yo seems to have the jump on him physically. But maybe I'm underestimating him.

He's really, really difficult to discipline because he's been SOOO shamed, and is usually expecting a spanking, so he just immediately stops making eye contact and says he's sorry over and over. I always try to approach things very gently, but he still reacts this way.

Originally Posted by Evan&Anna's_Mom

If you do decide to do this, I would be sure you have a very detailed discussion about discipline, consequences and expectations for your house with both their parents and them. Be sure you define things just as you would for a non-family member who you were providing care for. Perhaps you could couple your agreement to provide care with their agreement to provide therapy for the child, assuming you could manage the logistics of getting him there.

In your shoes, I would probably try to help but I would go into it with my eyes wide open and everything clearly defined at the beginning.

That's a great idea! I really, really doubt we would be able to get them to agree to the counseling part, but the rest would most likely fly.

Originally Posted by childsplay

It's like starting your entire day over again at 3:00.

It's a lot of work, (and IMO totally not worth it, especially EVERY DAY) the kids are tired, hungry, wound up, needing homework help, wanting your attention, wanting to go out, wanting to stay in, fighting, playing, getting frusterated, wanting alone time, not liking the snack, wanting more snack, not wanting to play with the after school child......and BTW, you need to get supper started at some point and the baby needs changing.

This whole post was great advice, and thank you so much for it! I just pulled this part because I wanted to respond to this, and it was mentioned before as well.

The charter school where all the kids will be gets done at 2:30, and then they would be picked up by 4:00. I think what I would have to do is make it very clear that I will not stand for SIL going to the bar and sending BIL for the kids, because then it wouldn't be until 6:00. Anyway, it will only be 1.5 hours, and it won't really impact our other extracurricular activities (I hope).

But you made a good point about half-days and vacation! I'll have to make sure they don't expect me to take him then.

[Smithie]

Don't touch this situation with a ten poot pole. Seriously. You already have it in your mind that SIL might ditch the kids to go out drinking, and that it matters that your three-year-old has "got the jump" on your wildly inappropriate nephew.

Seriously, I just fill out an application for foster/adoption, and the two things you mentioned (animal cruelty and touching other kids' genitals) were on the red-flag list of behaviors that would make a child an unsafe placement for a family that had younger children. Your kids come first. I'm sorry for your nephew, but that doesn't change the facts.

[Tjej]

I am almost done with a school year of picking up a very sweet, rambunctious, somewhat selfish and non-listening 5yo (what 5yo boy doesn't fit that description?), so here is my perspective. Oh, and my kids are 4 and 2. AND I did 2-3 days a week for most of the year and now it is 1 day a week.

1 day a week is great. 2-3 was exhausting and it hurt my family life. A kid who is a discipline issue is a bad example for YOUR kids, and you will spend so much energy disciplining him and helping your kids learn that imitating the undesirable behavior is not acceptable to you that you will feel so very very exhausted.

What is the weather like where you live in the winter? Will you be outside? Being cooped up indoors when it was mucky sucked the life out of me. A handful is more than a handful when you are stuck inside and they've been cooped up at a desk in school all day.

For me, one day a week has been wonderful. The kids enjoy eachother. Coming here is a treat for him instead of a daily grind sort of thing. I have the energy to plan more for the one day a week. The weather is better (and I've got an empty church gym booked now for the weeks it isn't). 2-3 days a week was soo much harder and more exhasting (and in the winter, so UGH).

AND the child I watch is a good kid, with kind and responsible parents.

YMMV

Tjej

[Quinalla]

I think I would try for a compromise as it seems very important to you to try and help your nephew. Maybe 1-2 days a week and then if it goes well, you can do more if you want. While you last post it sounds like they wouldn't be there for very long each day, still it could get very wearing on you for 5 days, so if it were me I would try to go into it more gradually. Good luck, whatever you decide to do!

[mommajb]

It is too long a commitment for me. Given everything else I would prefer to be the back-up for afternoons, sick days, snow days and half days rather than the regular commitment of everyday after school. As back-up you can say no when it won't work for you, give it your best when you do say yes, and avoid some resentment that will inevitably crop up.

[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

Another idea for if you do this -- since it sounds like all the kids are on the same schedule, can you arrange for some immediately after school activity a couple of days a week? Something like swim lessons or gymnastics class where you can drop off all of the kids for most of that time? Of course SIL would have to pay for her children's participation. Or just make it the routine to go straight from school to the park? Somewhere that you can watch them run but not have to be actively managing their playtime, beyond keeping an eye on your nephew to make sure he isn't doing something inappropriate? That sounds much easier than heading to your home where supervision is so much harder.

I would also put some sort of exit plan together before you start -- say a set evaulation in 30 or 60 days so that if either family were unhappy there would be an easy termination point, plus a "2 weeks notice" clause for changing things and a "if this happens we will terminate care immediately" sort of thing. Put it all in writing, along with the financial arrangements, discipline policy, late pick-up consequences. Have both sets of parents AND THE CHILDREN sign so everyone is on the same page. I just signed a ton of these for various summer day camps -- you could find many examples by looking at day camp sites at the moment. You could say "SIL, I am willing to try this but it seems like differences in expectations frequently causes stress amongst families, so I have set this all out in writing to protect us all and avoid any misunderstandings. Of course we can discuss/change/negotiate any of this, but I'd like us to make this a formal arrangement so that everyone is happy and knows exactly what to expect. I think it will protect all of our relationships in the end." or something like that, anyway.

[chiefmir]

I agree that it is too much of a commitment- and aside from the fact that your DN is a high-needs child to take on, even in a best-case scenario it might be a huge imposition as time goes on. When would you do other things that you might be able to squeeze into the after school time? shoe shopping, dr. visits, teacher conferences, etc? I'd pick a day a week and offer that day as a set day you'd take the kids. enough time to be a good influence and you can always do more if it works well.

[Katwoman]

The thing is, if you're watching your DN like a hawk 5 days a week, when are you have real time with your kids? I mean, you already don't see them when they're at school. So how much time does that really leave you to be with your kids?

I vote for Mother Theresa here. (And I don't say that lightly, I'm a MT too.) If I didn't have kids I would totally do it based on all the good reasons you listed. That child really does need someone. But so do your kids.

Just a thought.......

[momo7]

Read your post again. Read it from the prospective of someone who is going to do it as a job Now....would you do it after you just read what the job would entail, as in dealing with your dn personality?

I sounds like you don't. It sounds like you are trying to talk yourself out of it.

I don't think you should rationalize this at all.

I think you should stick with your gut instinct.

You already know what you should do.

[Owen'nZoe]

I'm in the go for it - but on a limited basis camp. I would agree to a day or two a week, or to taking him on days off/sick days, or whatever you feel would help you balance helping out with spending time with your own kids.

I had a cousin who sounds like you describe, and unfotunately things turned out horribly for him (he's been in and out of prison for the past 7 years). I do wonder if things would have turned out differently for him if more of the adults around him had been more engaged/interested in helping his parents. Who knows.

I do remember not wanting to be around him when we were kids, but the coping skills we learned for dealing with him were very useful. I don't regret the time we spent with him one bit, even though it was difficult at the time. We also had an (unmedicated) schizophrenic great-aunt around almost every day. It seems most of the posters here would have suggested our parents keep us away from her and her sometimes violent outbursts (she never hurt any of us, but was prone to screaming and throwing things at the ghosts of her sisters, who could show up at any time for her). But wow, I learned so much about mental illness, and seeing past someones illness to find the wonderful, beautiful person inside. Sometimes she scared the heck out of us, and sometimes we were just tired of having her around, but I wouldn't trade that time with my aunt for anything now. I understand the urge to protect children, and I'd never suggest endangering your children, but you sound reasonably confident that you could keep your children safe and watch your nephew. I think in that case, I'd see the time spent with dn as a potential benefit for the kids, rather than a negative.

[LROM]

I am one of the people here who is ALWAYS excited when someone wants to help a troubled, socially awkward/challenged child who has needs that aren't being met. It's often hard work, and I am thrilled whenever I hear someone trying to figure out how to do it.

But even with that perspective, I don't understand why you are seeing this as an "all or nothing" situation.

I agree wholeheartedly with everyone who pointed out that it doesn't have to be every day of the week. Can it be once, maybe twice a week max?

My main main concern, aside from some of the behaviors you've said your nephew has (which are way more than simply "immature" in my experience, from what you've said), is that you yourself acknowledge that having him in your house means constant vigilance, watching him "like a hawk", and that you're exhausted afterwards.

Your kids, as well adjusted and healthy as they may be, still need their mom to be there with energy for them. If your nephew exhausts you after a week of being there, how do you think you'll feel after a school semester of full time after school care? That just seems like asking for trouble on many different fronts.

Also, have you talked to your kids about how they feel about it? I don't know how old they are, but if it's age appropriate you should ask them, and then maybe whatever arrangement you agree to, be clear with your sister and your own kids that it's on a TRIAL BASIS at first. Maybe for a month to see how it goes.

And again, I would do it for 1, maybe 2 days a week. NOT every day. Every day would most likely impact your own kids and you in ways you're not even thinking about now, and that's not even taking into account what your nephew might actually do to them/your animals.

Your nephew does sound troubled and like he could really use a lot of different kinds of help. But you don't have to sign on to every day, and you don't have to sign on indefinitely. If you're going to do it, have everyone agree it's on a trial basis and even if you get through that and it's going fine and THEN it starts to deteriorate, be clear with your sister and your kids that you can say no at any point if it stops being workable for you/your family.

That's my .02, I hope whatever you do you keep your energy up for your own kids as well as yourself and your DH. Good luck!