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Did anyone else have this false pre-conceived notion that there are all these "choices" for...

post #1 of 29
Thread Starter 
I don't know where it exactly came from, but I admit I come from a white upper middle class background. But I had this expectation that there would be all these "choices" for jobs when I became a mom. I could choose to work part-time, take years off etc. But I have discovered reality. I guess maybe there are all these choices if you specifically marry a high-earning partner.

I guess it depends on the cost of living where you live, your "risk-tolerance" economically speaking and the field you are in. In my field, law, there is discrimination when someone wants to re-enter, work part-time etc.

I live in a wealthy area - maybe I find is frustrating that there are so many people around me that find that "it's all too much" and decide to drop hours, work etc. I wish I had more peers that "I was in the same boat with". My reality is I need to provide a steady income and benefits to my family. We live in a Darwinistic culture unfortunately.

Thanks for listening.
post #2 of 29
I wish there were more choices. It would be really nice if professional jobs had part-time options that were popular. Or I wish a 35 hour workweek was more commonplace. Just shaving an hour off would make things a heck of a lot easier.
When my coworker tried to go part-time after her 2nd child, she got a lot of flack from her teammates. Mind you, she was still working 32 hours a week and her boss still assigned her the same # of projects she would have had if she were still full time. I'm not sure what her plans are this time around (she just had her 4th baby), but if she can succeed in getting a part-time schedule, then it opens the door for others to try and do the same.
post #3 of 29
OMG, I was coming on this forum to post almost this EXACT same topic. I was just told yesterday that my working was a "choice" that our family made (with the implication that it was the wrong one, clearly!), and that if we wanted to downgrade our standard of living we could live on less money (with the implication that it would be ME of course to stay home, b/c God forbid a MAN stay home with the kids). While I do agree that I am used to the standard of living that 2 incomes gives our family, we also live in a very expensive area (bay area, ca) and are not willing to leave here, so my working isn't really a "choice" because- like you mentioned in the original post- my husband's income can't support our family here. I value security, MY work's benefits (husband's job has NONE), and the ability to do something in the world in addition to being a mother. The unfortunate reality of working-momhood is that there are not good structures in place in American society to help moms do it well, like paid leave after childbearing, good childcare, paternity/partner leave, flex schedules, work-from-home options, etc....
Have you read getting to 50/50? If you have a partner, I highly recommend that book. It is really focused on the corporate environment too, so I think as a lawyer you might relate to a lot of the examples they give. The book is basically about shared parenting and shared workload in 2-parent working families. And also discusses encouraging research about working motherhood and its impact on children.
Best wishes to you...I wish I could know you in real life!
post #4 of 29
I find it frustrating that even when choices are available, it's not always easy to take them.

The maternity leave policy at my job is that I can take as much time off as I need (unpaid, discussed and worked out in advance) and my job will be waiting for me. However, after having my first, I've come to discover that my boss really has no respect for mothers. He's started telling me that I'm 'letting people pass me' and asking when I'm going to 'get on with it'. When it took me 6 months to study for and pass my insurance licensing exam (stealing an hour of study time here and there after DD was asleep), he told me he would have been proud had I done it more quickly. What's odd is, I have the most experience, education, and credentials in the office. But because I'm focused more on my daughter than on my career right now, he looks down his nose at me.

When this baby gets here, I plan to take off 3 months, which will mean I will miss the beginning of the busiest season in our office. I plan to give him 6 months notice, so he can hire a temp if needed. Seems fair to me - but I know I will get all kinds of grief for it. I feel like I have to work twice as hard as my co-workers, just to prove I'm just as valuable as I was before I had children.
post #5 of 29
I come from the opposite direction - growing up I thought I had only two choice: SAHM or WOHM and use daycare - no one I knew did anything in between. I always wished, of course, for more options - part-time work w/ full time pay, longer paid maternity, etc, (because getting by on less money is not an option)

fast forward to the present . . . DH and I work(ed) for the same company. He was laid off shortly after I found out I was pregnant with our first, he has been unemployed for over a year now, and isn't super motivated to go back into the traditional workforce. He gets to be at home with DS, do freelance work from home, and enjoy the flexibility of being at home, albeit on a much reduced income. My work has been fantastic - I can't complain. before I went out on maternity leave, my manager made sure I had a laptop so I could work from home at least occasionally once DS arrived, and I have been working from home 3 days a week since returning at 7 weeks PP. I just wanted to share a story from the other side of the fence
post #6 of 29
oh, I get this. I make about 40% of our income. Me staying home just isn't really an option. With my awesome benefits, I make enough past what we're paying for daycare for it to be worth it.

The really frustrating thing is that many times I spend several hours a day at work on the computer. I used to think of that as a luxury. But I have the feeling that when I go back to work later this month that suddenly it's going to seem more like "time I could be spending with DD." *sigh*
post #7 of 29

You DO have choices... try a ROWE :-)

I feel as if I have lots of choices, but it's only out of dumb luck.

When I was pregnant, I became very ill and had to quit my job after maternity leave ended, even though I was considering going back. My employer was more than a saint and allowed me to take unemployment for as long as I wanted it. A year later, I secured a job making a excellent salary and it was entirely working from home, mostly on my own schedule. DS is now 3 years old and I have never had to leave him or even think about child care. It's been a huge gift to myself and to him.

Things are a bit different now- my contract for my job has ended and my unemployment ran out. DH has been a SAHD for two years and is a full-time student, as am I. When DS was 6 months old, we decided it was better for our family if he always had a SAHP. We made the choice to make a lot of sacrifices so that this arrangement can work out- we have bare-bones health insurance and have no disposable income (but at the same time, we also worked very hard during the pre-baby years so that we could have no debt). We also moved when DS was 6 months old so we would have a lower cost of living. My parents have lived with us for the past month so we don't have to dip into our investments while we prepare to move. It's not perfect, but for us, keeping a parent home was/is more important than maintaining our lifestyle (which was really quite lavish before DS came along).

Next month, we're moving again becuase for the first time in 3 years, I'll finally be working full-time outside of the home. DH will continue his role as a SAHD while he finishes grad school.

One last thing: it has taken me a l-o-n-g time to find a job that works for me, the reason being that I simply REFUSE to work a 8-5 job. In every interview, resume, cover letter and phone screening, I have made it clear that I thrive best in a ROWE. A ROWE is how I worked when I was working from home, and it means that I work when I want and where I want, as long as my work gets done. Some employers don't like that, and those aren't the places for me. But I have found three employers who like me enough that they are willing to let me work a ROWE while also offering an excellent salary and benefits. This means that I will be able to take DS to his swimming lessons and "grasshopper baseball" classes and volunteer at his preschool, becuase I have the flexibility of doing my work on my own time. (If you don't know what a ROWE is, look up "results-only work environment") To me, a ROWE is the best choice for a working mom. If your employer doesn't understand what it is, there's a ton of materials available to help you convince your supervisor to try it out.

Even still, with the ROWE and the good salary, we have years to go before we have the same income level and lifestyle that we had before DS. In the meantime, we are choosing to keep a parent at home which means we live simply, only vacation once a year, keep our old cars, etc. But on the other hand, I still get to spend tons of time with DS and we never have to worry about someone else caring for our child. This is what works for us.

So in fact, I think there ARE choices as long as you're open to compromise. You have to be willing compromise when needed (ie, moving or somehow reducing your cot of living when needed) and also being able to justify an alternative work environment to your employer. I completely understand that these scenarios don't work for everyone, but this is what has worked for me and I am very, very happy with how things turned out.
post #8 of 29
Well, we'll just say there aren't any *reasonable* choices at the moment. Moving and/or selling the house we only bought in January just doesn't even make sense.
post #9 of 29
when I saw the choose a "rowe" headline I thought you meant something entirely different!

my job is not truly a "ROWE" as you defined it, we are supposed to work 40 hour weeks. However, I have found so long as my work gets done, my boss hasn't been particular about the exact # of hours worked (frankly, sometimes it is more than 40) but I find it makes a huge difference whether at least some of those hours are at home.

Our situation wasn't really chosen, it just came to be. I think there are far more choices than there used to be, and I am really grateful. But I do wish we had even more choices! (mostly longer, paid, maternity/paternity leave)
post #10 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhiOrion View Post
Well, we'll just say there aren't any *reasonable* choices at the moment. Moving and/or selling the house we only bought in January just doesn't even make sense.
Yes, us too unfortunately. Though we are almost 2 years into this house. I sooo wish I'd decided on kids first and gotten the house later! But I hadn't really thought we were going to have any kids! So now I'm stuck. I make the higher income and have the better benefits. And the job flexibility (work from home) that our company proclaims, is really up to the manager, and mine isn't really into it. Honestly, I think I might look for a new position after the baby is born. There has to be a company out there that suits me better.
post #11 of 29
This is something that is really on my mind. My LO is nearly four months and I wouldn't trade anything for the time that I've had with her. She is so awesome I don't want to miss a lot of the opportunities to hang out with her to go to a 9-5 job. Looking beyond the next three years to delightful babyhood, I'd like to home school until eight something more of a challenge being a single mom. I'd like to have another baby.

I am manifesting for my future a life without compromise for myself and my family. I will find a job that I can work from home, work flexible hours, and care for my child. I won't consider anything else an option. People do it, why not me? That said, I don't expect these opportunities to drop in my lap. I am brainstorming idea's for my own businesses that I can run online, thinking about if there is a particular field for my masters that could allow me to telecommute, making an aggressive investment plan and networking my ass off. So far I have no idea where this will get me, but I know from my own past experience the unreasonable things I've desired and done are the most valuable: moving to Atlanta for college, living in the Netherlands, getting pregnant, having a UC. What purpose is there to be reasonable?

There are enough of us, trying to change what has always been expected of "workers" and "mothers" into a co-existing sustaining structure. We can do it, we can support each other in our mothering and in our careers. If our bosses don't agree with flexible hours, or telecommuting, or longer maternity leave or on-site daycare then perhaps it is time to make our own empires. Why could it not be possible?
post #12 of 29
Yes, I had a lot of anger after I had DD and returned to FT Work. I had a phenomenal job at a great company that touts itself as family friendly but really...not so much.

Basje, I ended up doing what you are talking about. I started my own consulting business and now I work from home 30 hours a week doing sales management. I still use daycare, but much less than when I was working 40-50 hrs plus commuting. For the most part, I feel happy and balanced and I have a lot more freedom. I had pretty much the same attitude as Basje--that if I wanted this, I would have to dream it up and do it.

But it is frustrating that there's so much pressure to have kids, and so much pressure to work, and not much support to do either at the end of the day.
post #13 of 29
I've made a lot of compromises in the 4 years since I went back to work. I agree that not a lot of choices exist. But women now are in a stronger position than ever to create the choices and make them happen in our workplaces, like basje said. We're now more educated than our male counterparts. We need to get our acts together, ask for what we need, and quit judging mothers for having children and the nerve to work outside the home (or not to), and quit judging men for exercising similar choices.

The company I work for had FTers and PTers when I got there, but the only solution for people who needed more flexibility was freelance, and I didn't have room in my life to be running my own business. When I wasn't getting the flexibility I needed for my family, I had to quit because of this. Luckily in my case, I'm a solid employee and they wanted me to come back. So I asked for what I needed: a PT position with flexible hours (no min or max) and the option to telecommute to allow my kids to be at home when they are off school. The hours I work are based on company demand and my availability, and I work at home a lot. I can conference by phone as needed, no one ever needs to feel bad about calling...but while their office hours are 8-5:30 or so, I typically do about half my work outside those hours.

I'm hourly rather than R-O/salary, and for me this makes sense. I have a farm so there are periods where my productivity is focused on the farm and not my off-farm job. My dh travels extensively for his job, so I need to be around at key times like lambing. I make a fair hourly wage and I'm committed to honest work on the job. I have everything I need at home to make it work, and the office is close by, so I can pop in if I need to pick up something or see someone.

My children are older now. I started working when dd was 2.5 (started looking for work when she weaned) and ds was in kindergarten. I've worked PT, FT and now this way over a few years. I've spent probably $60K on childcare in order to keep it up, and I feel like I'm getting the goods now after sticking out some tough years.

So now I work 10-25 hours a week, more at home over summer and more at the office during school. I'm absolutely dedicated to my employer and grateful to my supervisors for their willingness to try with me, and I'm committed to proving that this kind of arrangement can work. I think that with the current economic struggle many companies are in, new working arrangements could save them a lot of money. It might be that working a little less (and being paid a little less) is a part of the solution and the "new normal" everybody needs to find now.

I'm told I'm lucky. I am fortunate, but this didn't just fall into my lap. I had to ask for it, work closely with managers, prove that I have my own unique selling proposition. And I know a good gig when I find one--I'm not looking to leave this job, even if I found more money elsewhere.
post #14 of 29
I'm in the same boat as the PP. My company is supposedly very family friendly, but it's up to the individual manager, and mine is not so much. I had to sort of go over her head to even feel confident that she'd give me and my coworker a room to pump in. I emailed her at the same time as two of the other people who are over her. I knew they'd be excited about a lactation room. But they generally aren't going to get involved in this type of stuff, and aren't going to be a resource if I wanted to work part time.

I am going to keep an eye out for other jobs within my company that would give me more flexibility. But I need to go back to my old job first or else nobody else is going to consider me.
post #15 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1jooj View Post
I've made a lot of compromises in the 4 years since I went back to work. I agree that not a lot of choices exist. But women now are in a stronger position than ever to create the choices and make them happen in our workplaces, like basje said. We're now more educated than our male counterparts. We need to get our acts together, ask for what we need, and quit judging mothers for having children and the nerve to work outside the home (or not to), and quit judging men for exercising similar choices.
No kidding. I've heard mothers at my work backbiting about women without children or men with or without children who take FMLA, who move to 4 day weeks, who work from home a lot. These women seem to think that these privileges should be available only to working mothers, and that non-parents or fathers are pulling some kind of fast one by availing of them.
post #16 of 29
Depends on a lot of things.

When we lived in a higher cost of living area I have fewer choices. We CHOSE to move to a lower cost of living area and take on little (ie: no) real debt besides our house payment. We CHOSE to have no credit cards, pay off our vehicles and live without a ton of perks. because of the choices we've made, my husband and I can both work part time and still make the bills. Or he can work full time and I could stay at home. Right now I work part time and he is actually on unemployment waiting for a position to open up. We've both been full time students for the past year. But, because of the lifestyle choices we've made, its worked for us. In the past he worked and I stayed at home. Before we moved here, we both had to work full time.

I should also mention that I'm very lucky with the job I chose too. Its flexible aroudn kid events/sports and my college schedule. I work quite a bit from home, when I do go in I can bring my kids (on-site childcare) and other times I choose to bring just one child and he/she sits in the office with me. Its VERY common to see kids in the office where I work. (YMCA)
post #17 of 29
What's a ROWE?
post #18 of 29
I'm probably going to get totally flamed for this but as a full time working mom of a 2 year old and 1 on the way I understand no choices. I only get 6 weeks of maternity leave for this baby so perhaps that bitterness is feuling my post here but when I read about all the people, just on this post, who say that they were on unemployment for a year or more to find the perfect job for their family. Who do you all think pays for that? Those of us that are working...I mean, that money comes from somewhere.

Yes, I enjoy the extras that 2 incomes provide but I am also proud of the fact that we are preparing ourselves for retirement, we have a savings account ready incase of emergencies and we are putting money away for college for our kids. God forbid something bad happen to one of our family members, we will be able to stand on our own 2 feet.

I think that time with our kids is irreplacable and if we could swing it with one of us staying home, while still assuring a stable future, we would. But we can't and that is just the reality right now.
post #19 of 29
I wouldn't dream of flaming you - you have to make the choices that seem right for your family.

I always thought I'd be a SAHM, but circumstances intervened. If DH found a fabulous, well paying job that would allow me to be at home, and for us to be in a bigger house, then I'd do that. But in the meantime, I am grateful for the flexibility my job does afford me. and really, who grows up thinking, "one day, I want to work in insurance!"

but sometimes, the best things are not what you planned or intended.
post #20 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by poorlittlefish View Post
I only get 6 weeks of maternity leave for this baby so perhaps that bitterness is feuling my post here but when I read about all the people, just on this post, who say that they were on unemployment for a year or more to find the perfect job for their family. Who do you all think pays for that? Those of us that are working...I mean, that money comes from somewhere.
So instead you turn around and flame us? I'm sorry that my husband being on unemployment offends you. He worked for years and years in a horrendous career and paid taxes on that income. For years he only saw us 2 times a month. So he, no doubt, paid for unemployment too. That's why we pay unemployment insurance. Oh, and I work and pay for it too.

And taking the time to find a STABLE career so as not to have to go through it again, retraining through college, or finding a job that will help the family are not bad things IMO. People don't want to suddenly become unemployed. Its stressful! But taking a job that will be so stressful on the family that is causes harm, or taking a job that pays nothing and puts you in a worse off position than being on unemployment, are not realistic solutions. If someone has the option to do something else with their life or find a career that suits their family, they should go for it and shouldn't be looked down on for that.

I'm sorry that you don't like your job. There are always choices. The bottom line is that people want the extras and are not willing to compromise or didn't think things through in the first place about what it could mean later. We made choices that made it easier on us, when my husband became unemployed (unwillingly, obviously) we didn't lose everything like a lot of people do.

And I know about short maternity leave. When we lived in a high COL area I went back to work after 3 weeks maternity leave. Yeah, 3. My husband had herniated a disk in his back and couldn't work and had no income. He couldn't even walk at the time without a walker. I was already starting to get back into work at 2 weeks PP. We made the choice to live there, so we didn't have many options. We finally made the choice to move because we didn't like what seemed like no other options available for the life we wanted. We left jobs, family and our home in search of a way to make it work better. We made that choice and found the solution. We had to give up a lot, more than most are willing to do, but we always had a choice and chose to make it.
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