Is this teaching relational aggression in preschool? [B]Real update with conference report[/B] - Page 3

[VisionaryMom]

Originally Posted by Tigerle

but I really would not want to suggest stuff like the lego table being exclusively for older kids because it would happen to hurt my own child, who who has really been into legos for some time now and has the fine motor skills to play with them productively, so I am all for flexibility in that respect - it's just hard work for them to be on top of it all the time.

They don't have to make them all or nothing. At our children's museum, there are 2 dominoes tables. One has a sign that says beginners, and the other says experienced. The idea is that someone at the beginner's table may knock down what you're building, but at the experienced table, that wouldn't be an okay behavior. We went with a friend & her son, and it caused her son some grief. He knocked down the dominoes my son & another boy were working on, and they got upset. He was asked to return to the beginner table where a lack of impulse control isn't expected. Something like that could work.

My son has never been into knocking down what he builds, but there are many kids we've played with who are. It's been a struggle working with DS working on how to respond to children who knock down his things. In fact, the only time he got into trouble last school year was for charging at a little boy who destroyed (on purpose) what DS had built. All of that is to say that I think being creative with corners is probably the best option in this situation.

Originally Posted by Tigerle

edited to add that they will be opening a lot more public 0-2 daycare classrooms in the area come this fall, so this may reduce pressure to accept the very little ones, too.

Is this a public school? I don't quite understand the "pressure" to accept younger & older children. All of the preschools we've considered have been clear about the children they admit. I can't imagine my children's preschool director allowing (developmentally average) 2YOs in the 4YO class just because of parental pressure, so I'm curious about the dynamic at play here - no pun intended.

[kittykat2481]

DS is in a Montessori 3-6 classroom which, like your child's classroom, can be more like 2-6 or so. In fact, my son is only just 2.5, but developmentally ready to graduate from his toddler class and begin the 3-6 class. The way they handle it is to have shelves that are intended to be used by children new to the classroom - whether they be 2 or 4. These activities require little explanation or supervision. Then, as the children mature and become ready, the teachers offer "lessons" in the other activities. Once they have been given a lesson, the children are free to choose that activity on their own. There are 20-25 children in this class with one teacher and one assistant teacher, and as I said they range in age from 2.5 to 6. If a child is antsy to use materials they're not yet ready for, the teachers will remind them what they need to accomplish before they are ready for that lesson, and redirect them to something more developmentally appropriate that will meet their needs at that time. This works really well, and IMO is a necessary process to have in order to have materials to meet the needs of a 2 year old and a 7 year old in the same class.

[Tigerle]

Originally Posted by VisionaryMom

Is this a public school? I don't quite understand the "pressure" to accept younger & older children. All of the preschools we've considered have been clear about the children they admit. I can't imagine my children's preschool director allowing (developmentally average) 2YOs in the 4YO class just because of parental pressure, so I'm curious about the dynamic at play here - no pun intended.

It is nominally a Catholic preschool, but heavily subsidized by municipal public funds and thus subject to the same regulations as public schools (very usual situation in our part of Europe). The pressure is not just parental, but rather "re-directed" political pressure: parents want affordable daycare for under-threes, so municipalities will be required by law to provide daycare places to 35% of 0-2-year olds by 2013, and opening up preschool classrooms for 2-year-olds gets them closer to that goal for cheap - no new buildings, no new staff etc. Also, as you may know, birthrates in most European countries are down so most pre-schools (not ours, as it happens) are actually undersubscribed, but buildings need to be maintained and tenured staff needs to be paid so they feel it is a win-win situation for everyone...whenever I've visited, though, it seemed to me that most two-year-olds seemed rather overwhelmed by that situation, particularly as the child-to-staff ratio is still 12.5 to 1 (willl be changed now to 11.5, but it is still higher than what it should be I think), with the only difference that the few under threes count double. It's 4-1 in the 0-2 daycare centers-that is age appropriate, I think.

We did talk about whether it was necessary to have some more "age segregation" in the corners and the teachers are considering going back to a system they said they've always implemented whenever it seemed necessary to them before, which was hanging up long, middle and short paper strips and clipping a clothespin to whichever "size" kids were allowed at a particular time, so that every age group had a fair chance. I wasn't in favor of more age segregation at the time (rethinking this!, you are all making such very good points!) so agreed that it was more important to work on a more inclusive atmosphere first and get rid of some of the excessive "nos".

They do have open shelves and some age restrictions and will direct kids to age appropriate activities and so on, but I suppose at some point the Montessori and the play-based/developmental approach will clash - after all, there is no fixed sequence in which to progress from blocks to dominoes to legos or what to use for pretend play in the latter. So I suppose it's got to be rotation rather than progression...still wishing the local Montessori were an option and did not have such a horrible reputation (the reason why the playbased school is so oversubscribed, actually, but can't get more staff or space because nominally the neighbourhood is sorted).

Other ways to change things. I have thought about both volunteering in the school offering something for K kids (but my only teaching experience and scanty formal training has been acquired in law school - not really the appropriate age group or material at all!) or lobbying at the the political level next year that I will be home. So far I have been planning to use up whatever energy I will have left with a newborn for enrichment for DS. Hmm...

[ollyoxenfree]

Originally Posted by kittykat2481

DS is in a Montessori 3-6 classroom which, like your child's classroom, can be more like 2-6 or so. In fact, my son is only just 2.5, but developmentally ready to graduate from his toddler class and begin the 3-6 class. The way they handle it is to have shelves that are intended to be used by children new to the classroom - whether they be 2 or 4. These activities require little explanation or supervision. Then, as the children mature and become ready, the teachers offer "lessons" in the other activities. Once they have been given a lesson, the children are free to choose that activity on their own. There are 20-25 children in this class with one teacher and one assistant teacher, and as I said they range in age from 2.5 to 6. If a child is antsy to use materials they're not yet ready for, the teachers will remind them what they need to accomplish before they are ready for that lesson, and redirect them to something more developmentally appropriate that will meet their needs at that time. This works really well, and IMO is a necessary process to have in order to have materials to meet the needs of a 2 year old and a 7 year old in the same class.

I'm an enthusiastic Montessori supporter, but I think this system would be harder to implement in a play-based preschool/daycare. Most of the activities and toys are things that the children already know how to use. They probably have the same toys (lego etc.) at home. They don't need lessons before they use the materials. Any other kind of control based on age is going to be somewhat arbitrary. And of course, it doesn't address the problem of relational aggression that's been created in this situation.