or Connect
Mothering › Mothering Forums › Mom › Parenting › Playground Vent
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Playground Vent - Page 6

post #101 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by VisionaryMom View Post
IME, nannies often want to separate as much as the mothers. I wouldn't assume the moms were being snotty, but then, I have a nanny.
Yep, it's pretty clear from all the responses on this one that snobbery isn't going to be the cause of the division.

I'm quoting your post because you specifically mentioned "want to separate." Having large groups of two distinct categories limits the ability to move to watch the child they're supervising. It's all very well to say that you'd step in for a safety issue, but that's nonsense if you aren't sitting where you can see your kid.

ETA: yeah, I know kids got out of line of sight and things can happen in an instant, but if your kid's been out of view for 5+ minutes, it's time to move.
post #102 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by paquerette View Post
I hate playgrounds.

I also often find myself the only person taking care of kids. I have one small toddler who could easily walk in front of a swing and get bashed in the head, or fall off the slide, or any number of things. And one five year old who tends to be very overbearing with younger or smaller kids, so I do have to keep close tabs on her.

And I thought it was a shame last time we went that another mom with a small toddler was letting hers wander freely, and I had to stop my daughter's swing to keep this other child from getting bashed.
I've herded other toddlers away from the swing path. Stood in the way and gently flapped my hands at them "careful sweetie, there's a swing."
post #103 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenTeaGinger61 View Post
And just an added note, the helicopter parents are as equally annoying as the parents who do nothing (there is a balance). There was a parent at the spray/play ground yesterday who was running around, GRABBING other parents to tell them that their children were doing things to her child..things like "Your child is telling my child what to do!" She was NUTS. She was frantic trying to control EVERYONE at the park. I once had a mom almost push my two year off a play structure because she thought my kid was pushing her one year old (whom she wasn't watching at the time). I mean seriously...you're going to push a two year old?
Those aren't helicopter parents. Those are parenting bullies. A helicopter parent would've been watching her kid closely enough to have told your kid "be careful, there's a baby!"
post #104 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bellabaz View Post
Or I would physically pick up other child take back my kids toy and remove other child from the immediate vicinity of my kid. Maybe then parents or nannies would get off their butts and come see what the fuss was all about.
You have gotten so much advice. i think it's very hard to decide how to handle things. i would really suggest you NOT physically handle the children of other people. That could really really get out of hand quickly, with parents being very violent. Physically blocking them, or taking the toy away I could see, and a stern talking to, but never picking them up.
post #105 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdnaMarie View Post
But I don't think anyone in this thread is saying that they completely tune out and turn off. At MOST, we say that we keep a distance and watch for the children to get in real fights (hitting, rude language, etc.) before we step in.
The thing is a real fight comes after a break down of social skills. If you are too afraid of stepping in when intervention isn't necessary, you miss the chance to step in at the middle stage when an ounce of prevention works.

One quick "hey, kiddo, is everyone having fun?" when there's a frustrated look can defuse things.
post #106 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chamomile Girl View Post
I teach 14-15-16 year olds and many bullying behaviors (or is that "strong personality types?) still exist by that age. A classroom full of students interacting with one another requires constant supervision, and constant intervention when things get unfair.
This is interesting. Adults still do this type of power struggle/energy share. So do we need to have parents follow us through college so that those kids still don't have to learn to say "Stop! I won't tolerate it" Or until we'll 30, to help us when we get our first jobs? When does it stop?

This is way outside of the OPs discussion. I have to agree with Jugs
Quote:
Obviously there is a time to step in, but I don't think its healthy in the long run to protect them from every aggressive playground encounter, as much of it simply the reality of grouping children of different developmental ages in same place. Ds used to be that sensitive, passive kid, but he has learned to be more assertive and speak up when someone isn't being kind because these experiences with other children have taught him in a way that I couldn't.
I have much older children, and I have a baby. I parent him completely differently than I did my 15 yo, in party because I can recognize appropriate developmental stages in a different way after guiding other children through it. I don't take those things personally, and I see it as an opportunity to meet and help other children. no, that's not my job, to parent, but it's not painful to say matter of factly, "Nope, that's his, I have this other shovel you can use" I can be joyful that I am with my child, and with the others, rather than resent the fact that I'm part of a community in which I AM interacting with an older child.
post #107 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kreeblim View Post
I really detest the spinning "merry-go-round" thing on one of the playgrounds here because it looks like the funnest thing ever to kids under age two, but the 8 year olds make it go so fast that it will really screw a toddler up pretty badly. When my 2 year old goes near it I spin him slowly if it's empty, and remove him if bigger kids get on it. I've seen other parents of toddlers yell at bigger kids to go slower and frankly that bothers me. You just can't contol other people's kids, and the whole playground doesn't grind to a halt just because my son is too young to play safely on that one piece of equipment.
This is a good example of why my neighborhood park rocks. If we're already using the merry-go-round, parents remind their kids to go slowly for the baby, or kids ask if they can use it when we're done.

My usual response is "here, let me get on and hold her and then you can push as fast as you like". Sure, I get a bit dizzy, but dd loves it.

OTOH, when she wants to join a crowd on the tire swing, I direct her out of the way with "sorry, kiddo, you're not quite ready to go fast enough for the big kids to have fun". And then I've had to tell the older kids that they can keep on playing because they all start asking if dd wants a turn.
post #108 of 178
Here's the thing, I do know about normal preschool behavior. We go to the Children's Museum (Indianapolis has the largest one in the world) several times a week. I have seen literally hundreds of kids of each age from 0 to 15 using shared equipment, interacting with older kids, interacting with younger kids. (Besides our time at the park, and dd's six older cousins, 3 who are 3, and 3 who are 6.)

I know when a "careful guys!" can keep a game fun for everyone instead of being a frantic free for all that knocks over all the nearby toddlers and half the non participating preschoolers.
post #109 of 178
To piggy-back on what I posted earlier about my experience as a teacher of young kids and also on what some other posters have said (e.g. sapphire_chan), I guess I'm feeling somewhat dismayed that so many responses to OP seem to be about not always protecting your LO from the hard knocks of life so that s/he can learn to stand up for herself/himself. OP was frustrated by the lack of intervention/support/facilitation from the other caregivers.

Yes, there are lots of "inappropriate" behaviors that are absolutely expected of kids at various ages - e.g. the toddler/preschooler who hoards everything and wants what other kids have. But I think part of our job as the grownups in these kids lives is to guide them toward being the wonderful adults we want them to be. It's true that there are many adults who don't seem to have learned to "play fair" - I don't think this means their parents should have followed them through college, as another poster joked. But it does make me wonder if perhaps those adults did NOT receive enough guidance about "playing fair" when they were growing up. Maybe their grown-ups believed that "kids will be kids" and let kids work everything out for themselves.
post #110 of 178
I'd rather give my kids the tools to stand up to bullies than intervene for them. My boys are 7 and 4 and we have talked a LOT about bullying. They are allowed to play outside unsupervised with the unsupervised neighbor kids (who are all 8+). I trust them to stand up for themselves and others. I have heard from their teachers and personally witnessed them standing up for children who are being treated unfairly or unkindly. My 7 yr. old is very much a people-pleaser and is always happy to share/trade, but he's not a pushover. Like the example with the two cousins, everyone walks away happy.

In the example with the sand toys, if the child was 3+, we'd talk about it on the way there and I would arm them with things to say and do in case of conflict. Then I'd sit on a bench and watch as my child handled minor playground disagreements on their own. We'd talk about it more on the way home. If someone was hurt or crying, I'd walk over and intervene momentarily. If I just stood there speaking for my child, I would not be empowering him/her to speak up for himself. My job is to raise independent, capable people who don't need me there to hold their hand, and IMO 3 is a fine age to work on that from a playground bench.

FWIW neither of my children have ever bitten another child and I don't think they've ever hit or thrown sand at anyone on a playground, so I'm not justifying any bad behavior here.
post #111 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by not_telling View Post
To piggy-back on what I posted earlier about my experience as a teacher of young kids and also on what some other posters have said (e.g. sapphire_chan), I guess I'm feeling somewhat dismayed that so many responses to OP seem to be about not always protecting your LO from the hard knocks of life so that s/he can learn to stand up for herself/himself. OP was frustrated by the lack of intervention/support/facilitation from the other caregivers.
It's not about appropriate play to me. It's about different expectations. I don't think it's my right to decide what should be okay for every other child at a playground. That's what the OP sounds like she's doing. It's also what I see lots of other parents do.

As an example, we have one of those things - don't know what they're called - like a firefighter's pole, but it had a twisted metal piece outside the pole you can climb up and down on. Since DC were young 2s, they've climbed up and down that thing. Their feet have slipped, but they've never fallen. At 3 and 5, they shimmy up it without a thought. I've had other parents spot them. Why? There's no need. I've had 2 or 3 parents who are hovering over their kids say, "your daughter is climbing this." I say, "I see her. She's fine." And then they still spot her. That's their problem, not mine. They have different comfort levels, and that's okay. It doesn't mean, however, that I'm "not watching my kids," but I'm sure that's how they feel.

For those of us who talk about independent play, that's the kind of thing we mean. It's not the job of the most cautious or fearful parent to force their concerns on everyone else.

Words are another example. I don't like words like "stupid" to be said. I would speak to my children if they said them, but if two other kids are talking and one says "stupid?" It's not my place to jump in and say anything. If I had an 18MO, and they called him/her stupid, I would say something. If they called my children now stupid, both of my children could make it clear - using words - that they don't like it. And they'd likely exclude that child from play if it continued, and I'd congratulate them later for sticking up for their personal boundaries. I have the feeling that many people here would still defend their 5YO rather than let the child do it, and that's just not the approach I take.

"We're raising adults, not children" really is my mantra. I think about my role as a parent as preparing my children in appropriate developmental ways for the rest of their lives, and I don't think I do that by stepping in on their behalf all of the time.
post #112 of 178
I sort of think people are talking at cross purposes here. I didn't hear anyone here saying "people shouldn't let their kids do things I think are too dangerous for my kids." Honestly, it bugs the cr@p out of me when people tell my kids thet aren't using the playground equipment "appropriately" too (assuming they aren't doing something that is dangerous for some one else - like jumping off the play structure without regard for the group of kids sitting in the sand underneath them, or something). What people are saying is - if you kid is hurting mine, either physically or with words or by stealing their things, it would be nice if you could intervene. And it would be nice, but clearly all parents aren't going to. So those parents shouldn't be surprised if I see something that I think needs intervention (involving my child) and I do intervene. If my kid is not capable of saying "Stop stealing my toys" or "Stop screaming in my ear" - or the other child doesn't care about what my child is requesting, perhaps because they know that their parent won't come and ask them to stop, I have no problem going and telling the child myself. Sometimes an adult saying something will get a child's attention in a way that hearing it from another child doesn't.
post #113 of 178
I agree, Jen.
post #114 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdnaMarie View Post
Thanks to those who pointed out that I meant it's the kids' domain, not the grown-ups.

.
I know you meant the child's domain. I said that it isnt just YOUR CHILDS domain, it is for all of the children. perhaps read the post again.
post #115 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kreeblim View Post
The OP was not talking about intervening when her child was the bully...she was talking about intervening when her child was the target. .
well, maybe I took the OP wrong, but to me it meant that she wished that the parents and nannies of the other children would step in when they are being unfair to her "target" child. That's really the problem, is when parents think that throwing sand is a perfectly okay behavior for the park, or that grabbing toys and such is okay. they clearly think its okay if there are no consequences for it...
post #116 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapphire_chan View Post
The thing is a real fight comes after a break down of social skills. If you are too afraid of stepping in when intervention isn't necessary, you miss the chance to step in at the middle stage when an ounce of prevention works.

One quick "hey, kiddo, is everyone having fun?" when there's a frustrated look can defuse things.
It's not that I am afraid of stepping in when it's not necessary.

It's that I really, genuinely believe it is necessary for children to learn to defuse things themselves, to learn their limits, to learn consequences.

I know that your daughter is a younger toddler and at her age, certainly, I would be stepping in.

But the park IS a multi-age environment. It's not fair to ask the older kids to behave perfectly just because there's a baby there. Parents of babies need to watch their babies, not expect everyone else to watch their kids mind the babies.

Quote:
I said that it isnt just YOUR CHILDS domain, it is for all of the children. perhaps read the post again.
Yeah. I know. My post referred to my own child, but I meant CHILDREN'S not ONLY MY CHILD. I'm sorry if that was confusing. Obviously my child does not own twelve parks across our district. I didn't even think that would even enter into somebody's head, which is why I wasn't careful in the way I stated it originally.

That does not mean that my child has to be perfect at the park all the time. Parents of vulnerable babies and toddlers need to mind them. Parents of pre-schoolers and older kids, I think, have the right to let them play on their own a bit. That does not include physical violence or taking things. But protecting a moat? Sure. Hoarding one's own toys? Maybe that's how they do it in their family.

I don't think learning to be a good citizen consists of constantly being told what to do. Sometimes it involves experimentation and working it out.
post #117 of 178
children need to learn that there are all sorts of other people in the world, all ages, sizes, etc. not just babies, but just other people. they need to learn to be respectful of all others. it doesnt matter whether they are being disrespectful to a baby, to a child their age, or to an adult. if they are acting inappropriately, then their parent should step in and tell them that it's not okay. whether they are in their own home, a park, someone elses home, at the grocery store... whatever. no one here is saying to step in when your child is doing something that they should be doing, but to step in when they are being rude or disrespectful. I don't get why doing so is considered hovering. No one is saying to watch out for the babies and everyone change their behaviours for the babies and dont act like a five year old because there's a baby. But throwing sand, grabbing toys, etc, is not okay just because they like to do that at that age. they have to learn somewhere that its not okay to do that.
post #118 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrspineau View Post
children need to learn that there are all sorts of other people in the world, all ages, sizes, etc. not just babies, but just other people. they need to learn to be respectful of all others. it doesnt matter whether they are being disrespectful to a baby, to a child their age, or to an adult. if they are acting inappropriately, then their parent should step in and tell them that it's not okay. whether they are in their own home, a park, someone elses home, at the grocery store... whatever. no one here is saying to step in when your child is doing something that they should be doing, but to step in when they are being rude or disrespectful. I don't get why doing so is considered hovering. No one is saying to watch out for the babies and everyone change their behaviours for the babies and dont act like a five year old because there's a baby. But throwing sand, grabbing toys, etc, is not okay just because they like to do that at that age. they have to learn somewhere that its not okay to do that.
This.

This is what I took the op for meaning. Not that the other parents have to make their kids follow her rules. But that there are certain social boundaries that need to be taught/present, whatever, and its the caregivers job to do thisThis is not smothering or hovering.
post #119 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapphire_chan View Post
Here's the thing, I do know about normal preschool behavior. We go to the Children's Museum (Indianapolis has the largest one in the world) several times a week. I have seen literally hundreds of kids of each age from 0 to 15 using shared equipment, interacting with older kids, interacting with younger kids. (Besides our time at the park, and dd's six older cousins, 3 who are 3, and 3 who are 6.)

I know when a "careful guys!" can keep a game fun for everyone instead of being a frantic free for all that knocks over all the nearby toddlers and half the non participating preschoolers.
One of the things I miss about Indy--the Children's Museum!

I agree with you. My kids range from teen to toddler. But I still do the same basic stuff with my youngest as I did with my oldest when he was a toddler. Guidance is not hovering.
post #120 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by not_telling View Post
Yes, there are lots of "inappropriate" behaviors that are absolutely expected of kids at various ages - e.g. the toddler/preschooler who hoards everything and wants what other kids have. But I think part of our job as the grownups in these kids lives is to guide them toward being the wonderful adults we want them to be. It's true that there are many adults who don't seem to have learned to "play fair" - I don't think this means their parents should have followed them through college, as another poster joked. But it does make me wonder if perhaps those adults did NOT receive enough guidance about "playing fair" when they were growing up. Maybe their grown-ups believed that "kids will be kids" and let kids work everything out for themselves.
Well although I agree there is a time to step in (but I haven't seen that in the OP's specific comments) here's what I see too in my workplace -- there are often a group of people who seem more obsessed with "fairness" than doing their actual work. People who are constantly obsessing over OTHER people's behaviour and behaving as if they have LESS control than they do.

So...I dunno. I think there's a real balance there to be struck.

And no, I'm not saying we have to have a Lord of the Flies environment. I do think there is a huge, huge life lesson in understanding that although setting boundaries is great and standing up for ourselves when necessary is also great...expending a ton of life energy on what everyone else should or shouldn't be doing can be a detriment not just to yourself but to everyone around you.

If the bigger kids are hogging the toys, it may be time to step in. But it may also be time to build a crazy cool Mountain Of Sand And Road And Stick Drawbridge without toys and chances are good they'll join in the fun and start sharing. It's like if the swings are full, go on the slide. I'm not saying that's ALWAYS the right response. But I'm saying it's good to have it in the repertoire.

I really feel for the OP because she isn't enjoying her local park. It may well be there is a problem. But for me, most of what she listed I would just let go, and enjoy other parts of the park with my son.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Parenting
Mothering › Mothering Forums › Mom › Parenting › Playground Vent