Controlling toddlers in public

[Morgana]

How hard to you try to control your toddler in public?

DH and I talked about this the other day and he thinks I'm not teaching DD (14mos) how to properly behave. Normally she's great but there have been a few times recently that I've just given up and let her do what she wanted...within reason. One time was at a dealership. DH had taken my car there for repairs the week before but it came back with a problem. They told me to bring it in again and it should only take a half hour at most. It took 2 1/2 hours! Obviously I wouldn't have brought DD if I'd known it'd take that long. But she got bored of the children's play area. Plus, there were lots of big kids in there running around so I was concerned about her safety. She noticed stairs and wanted to climb up and down for hours. But I got tired of that. So I let her run around in the show room. There were no customers in the showroom and I kept her away from the cars, desks and offices. But, yep, I let her run around. No one seemed to mind. And frankly I didn't care because they were taking much longer than they told me. DH wasn't happy to hear I didn't control her better.

The other situation was at a doctor's appointment. We were the only ones in the waiting room so I let her wander around. She took magazines off the coffee table but I put them back when she lost interest and grabbed another magazine. I kept her away from the drug pamphlets on the end tables. At one point it became clear that my doc was running late and I was getting tired of following her around so I took her out into the hallway. It has doors at both ends and I made sure she stayed clear of them so she didn't get knocked over by someone coming through but otherwise I let her run. No one actually came through the hallway while we were out there. I put her in the stroller when we went into the actual exam room. If there were other people in the waiting room I would have taken her out to the hallway when it became clear that she wasn't going to sit on my lap or in the stroller. Again DH wasn't happy to hear that I didn't use the opportunity to teach her better manners.

She does great in a shopping cart and okay in a stroller if we keep moving. But if we're just waiting like these two situations then I think trying to control her too much will just lead to a meltdown which would be worse IMO. DH has NEVER actually taken her on any errands by himself and we rarely do any errands as a family. It's usually just me and DD so I don't think he understands what it's like to do these things with a very active toddler. But then I don't want to raise a kid who's a real terror in public as she gets older.

Where do I draw the line?

[LCBMAX]

Originally Posted by Morgana

Where do I draw the line?

Hmmm - does it sound too snarky if I say that you draw the line around your dh's misperceptions about the needs and abilities of a 14 month old?

You did a great job keeping her busy and happy and you were as considerate about other people's boundaries as you could be without making her invisible. Truly, it is preferable to have a happy 14 month old right in your way, than to have a screaming miserable 14 month old sitting in a nearby chair.

14 months is, imo, too young for anyone to have expectations of "good manners". At her age, YOUR behavior is all that counts, and you were a very well-behaved and skillful mama.

There is no such thing as good manners at her age. There is normal young toddler behavior which does not include being respectful about other people's things or space, and there are good parental manners which do include being creative about ways to entertain your child.

So, if I haven't sounded snarky yet, let me fulfill my ill-mannered impulse by saying - You and your daughter have great manners, but your dh needs a little work!

Hopefully your dh will get to spend enough time with her in similar situations to get some appreciation and empathy for the great job you did.

I wonder if he's afraid of how others will see him if his daughter isn't perfect? Or if the perceived judgements of others has clouded his own instincts to let her be the perfectly rambunctious?, messy?, loud?, fabulous and curious young toddler that she is?

............

As a side note to your post (which has NOTHING to do with a 14 month old!):
There is an argument for not teaching much older toddlers some social niceties too early, and reasonable people can disagree about this. I have to say that my son's friend (she's 2.5) has been taught to say "Sorry!" if she hurts someone, and it never sounds real. Maybe her parents don't need it to sound real, but do want to her to practice what they think is the right thing to say. I wish I wouldn't do this, but I do invite my son (2.25) to say "thank you" when he gets a gift. He sounds sincere, sort of, and he loves to play conversational games, so ultimately I keep doing it, but even at his advanced toddler age, I'm not convinced it's appropriate to ask him to do this because it will make the adult feel good. Of course I want him to be polite eventually, but more essential to me now is that he know his own feelings, and stay connected to his own pleasure. I think it's the adult's own responsibility to make themselves feel good for giving. I confirm my instincts about this when my in-laws praise him for being polite and never notice the singing and dancing that really comes from his soul. Maybe tomorrow I'll stop this silly knee-jerk habit of mine! I do ask him to be respectful in other people's space, with other people's things, or in places that are not kid-oriented, but hey -- he's two! So ultimately I don't expect him to be able to control his impulses for long. Then it's back on me to get creative and find ways to keep as many people happy as possible, him with activity, and other adults with an environment not totally overrun by my child. It's a fine line between keeping kids present in any area of society that I need to go, and respecting that not everyone thinks his arias are perfectly in tune and beautiful the way I do.

[happysmileylady]

I do the exact same things with my 19 month old. When we are in someplace "unusual" like a doc office or whatever, nothing she already owns is interesting. She loves stories, but not when out and about. And she LOVES to run. Loves it.

Just the other day, we were at the doc office for my older dd's high school sports physical. We walked in, I signed in, sat down and put my dd down. The waiting room is small, probably 10X10. The one wall is just the sign in window and door to the offices, then the two side walls each hold just 3 chairs and there are probably 5 along the back wall. In order to accomodate busy days there are 6 chairs back to back in a row in the middle of the room. The moment I set Raeanna down, she ran around that middle row, probably 15 times. There was one other couple in the room, older couple, they thought she was ADORABLE. And there was really no distracting her, at all, from running that circle. Attempts to do so have in the past resulted in a meltdown that was a MUCH bigger scene and MUCH less adorable than her little lap running act.

IMO, at that age, they aren't really old enough to "learn manners" and my job as mom is more about making sure they aren't going to hurt themselves-keeping her away from wall sockets etc- and making sure they aren't directly bothering/being rude to other people there-making sure she's not hitting or trying to climb up a stranger's leg, not screaming at the top of her lungs etc. But as long as none of that is going on, who cares if the kid runs laps in the waiting room? What's it hurting?

[stormborn]

NAK
You hit it with your last paragraph! With 2.5 hours in a waiting room you do whatever you have to do so everyone makes it out sane; I can garantee he couldn't have done any better . Besides, at a year old manners mean absolutely nothing and there really is no way to get them to understand 'proper behavior' yet!
FWIW, I've always drawn the line at harming people/property and disturbing others' peace....but the standard is worlds different for a toddler and an older kid. At 14 mos the best I shoot for is to take her outside if she's disturbing others.

[Skippy918]

I'd rather have DS run around than throw a tantrum and cry if we're in public.

[aussiemum]

This is just my perspective, so take or leave it as you like.

At 14 months, your DD's behaviour is perfectly appropriate. Toddlers have to move, there is no containing that need & they want to explore. In my experience, if you try to keep them from running around they just cry & fret & disturb people. You are doing all the right things by supervising her, & putting stuff back if she pulls it out. Your DH needs a reality check (my opinion!)- you can't 'teach' a 14 month old 'manners'. You just can't. Young toddlers are just starting to understand language requests, and have zero impulse control. It's normal.

Now, if you had said that your child was a bit older, say 3.5 and up, then yes, I would think that some rudimentary social behaviour and impulse control is to be expected. Give it a few years, I'm sure your little one will develop lovely social manners with gentle guidance from her parents.

[EdnaMarie]

I'm big on manners in grown-up spaces, but there's not a whole lot you can do to teach a 14-month-old to sit still. It is just not physically or mentally possible. Their little brains do not have the gray or white matter to soak up that lesson or put it in to practice. I agree that your husband may benefit from a short read of one paragraph on child development.

That said, we do slowly introduce "inside" and "office" and "store" behavior starting around this age. At fourteen months, that's just doing what you said. I do shush my child if she shrieks in a doctor's office, like the "fun" shriek which is only fun for her. I try to keep her from running by distracting her. The other stuff? Not likely. Too bad your doctor's office doesn't have a kids' bookshelf.

By around 20 to 24 months you could START to ask her not to touch grown-up things and re-direct to only baby things. But in the car showroom, yeah, if you can keep the child from touching the shine job, breaking anything, and screaming, it's a success.

I do not think that until much later are children able to really feel themselves and behave and stay in the kids' area for that long. Say, two or three. Yours is hardly even a toddler, she's more of a baby.

[HeliMom]

I've been using this recently as a comeback as to why my DD can't sit still completely and needs to run around after an hour.

"Imagine if you were expected to be still and patient in the same place for as many hours as years you've lived. I know I'd loose it long before I hit 28 hours. Heck, I doubt I can do 14 with out going a little stir crazy."


I have yet to have anyone continue the argument.

[karika]

LCBMAX said it all.... 14 mo is a baby and there is no such thing as 'teaching' them manners at that age. The ppl that think you can IMO are doing it with fear. What you do at that age is redirection, redirection and redirection. You did great at the dealer's! I just don't take my dds anywhere like that to avoid their dissatisfaction. We get enough excitement going on walks and to the parks. I also take them with me grocery shopping sometimes. For any errands, my parenting partner does them. He puts the gas in the car, has the oil changed, etc. He even does the shopping if I don't feel I need to take the girls out. Your dh needs an AP reality check. Maybe some of these articles would help. I know its an old site, but its a goodie! http://naturalchild.org/ I really like Scott Noelle's stuff too http://www.scottnoelle.com/ if you can get dh to read some of these articles, perhaps he will understand the shift of perceptions necessary.

[cappuccinosmom]

eh. We are pretty strict as a family, esp. dh. But he'd have no problem with the second situation. I personally wouldn't have a little one running around in a show room. Scared she *would* touch something.

Toddlers are learning, yes. But to expect them to sit hours upon hours, quietly, doing not much of anything is completely unreasonable. There is nothing wrong with letting her stretch her legs and see some new scenery while waiting. Grownups do that all the time. THey're not considered rude or "out of control" if they get bored with sitting and take a walk.

[LadyCatherine185]

Lots of great advice from PP's! You did great, your DD did great. Had it been me with my DS, he wouldn't have lasted that long and we probably would've had to leave. That is great that your DD stayed occupied for those 2.5 hours!

As a side note-- I always bring quiet toys and snacks with me to help keep DS busy in public places.

[Biscuits & Gravy]

The ways you handled those situations sound perfectly fine to me! I think your DH is being unrealistic. Perhaps he should attempt an errand with your LO by himself to gain some perspective.

I keep little backpacks packed and ready to go for both of my children and we take them to places like the doctor's office, restaurants, or any time I anticipate that we will have to wait. My 4yo's has his leapster and games, plus some drawing things. My 17mo's has trucks, stickers, little animals and other random things that might be interesting to him. I change his frequently to keep it fresh and new. It is kept in our closet by the front door so I can grab it on our way out and they don't have access to it.

Also, I wear DS (on my back) when we are out because it keeps him happy and contained. It is much easier for me than trying to entertain him in a shopping cart or stroller. He has a high up view and is happy watching everything going on around him.

[crunchy_mommy]

I think you did fine!!

Where I draw the line is when it infringes on other people's property etc. So if she was touching the cars or climbing into them, if she was digging into people's purses or blocking the doors for people to enter, then I'd intervene. Beyond that, as long as you clean up any trail she leaves, I see no reason to "control" her.

[beckyand3littlemonsters]

I think you did fine!!

Where I draw the line is when it infringes on other people's property etc. So if she was touching the cars or climbing into them, if she was digging into people's purses or blocking the doors for people to enter, then I'd intervene. Beyond that, as long as you clean up any trail she leaves, I see no reason to "control" her.

the behaviour you have mentioned is completely normal, your DH is unrealistic and obviously doesn't know how toddlers behave.

[Lit Chick]

Agreed - you did great as did your child.

Not much to add other than I have a friend whose DH is BIG on "manners". He's the worst parent. His oldest is 7, and I've known him since he was 3. I've seen a normal toddler turn into a jittery, contrary kid, because he is never allowed to be a normal kid.

Yes, kids need to be taught manners - but expecting them to behave like furniture (sit there, be quiet) is WAY more harmful than letting them deal with boredom/frustration in a constructive and appropriate way.

[rightkindofme]

Dude, you were awesome. FWIW, car dealerships in particular seem to be very cool with toddlers wandering around as long as they aren't destroying stuff. When people are buying a car it takes a long time to fill out paperwork and they are used to kids playing. When we go in for servicing everyone is awesome with my daughter. No sweat.

Overall it seems like you have the right attitude towards your kid. My daughter turned two recently and we are just barely starting to have success with, "Running is for outside, walking is for inside" and 'inside voice'. Not all kids are capable at two. Kids who have room to explore learn more about the world. Just say you are starting your educational journey.

[just_lily]

I think as long as you keep her from disturbing others and you clean up after her it is fine. Most people have experiences with toddlers and will just give you a simpathetic smile as you follow her around.

Last week we were all at the mall when DF had to use the bathroom, so I took DD into Payless Shoes with me. I was trying shoes on, so of course she sat down on the floor to pull her shoes off, and started trying shoes on herself. I didn't feel like I could tell her to stop since I was doing the same thing. So I just let her do her thing, and made sure to put everything back in the proper place when she was done. The salesgirls thought she was adorable (and very grateful that I put everything back - I am sure there are lots of parents who don't) and we avoided a big hairy meltdown. Win win!

[Raine822]

You did great. Also, in my experiences with DD1 (22 months now) most people like toddlers/babies and are not bothered by normal behaviors(running, exploring, ect.). We have tried at times to redirect her in a public place when we felt she may be bothering someone and almost always we find that the people around find her adorable and amusing. Ex. We were at home depot making decisions on remodeling a room so we were there for quite some time. DD1 got bored and wanted to walk around. She started to get interested in the carpet samples but there was another couple who were looking. I started to remove her to something else to look at so they could shop in peace and at the same time the couple started to ask for her "advice".

[Morgana]

Thanks everyone for your input and links to articles. There are so many comments I'd love to respond to but I'd be here all night doing a multi quote post and I'm just not that familiar with that yet. I do think the root of the problem is that he's never had any alone time with her in public. At one point I probably thought the same as he does but I quickly realized how wrong my expectations were. We have a pretty messed up work schedule so that coupled with his fear of taking her out in public has gradually morphed into me doing most of the errands with her. It's not that he's lazy or anything but it's just worked out that way. He does most of the work around the house including the cooking. I think it would be good for him to start overcoming that fear now that she's old enough to go awhile without breastmilk. He was always afraid of how to feed her a bottle while on the go. He tried once and it didn't turn out so well.

We're also realizing that we have very different ways of parenting when it comes to redirecting. He'll always start with telling her no. I try to distract her by asking things like "Where's your bear?" Then she'll stop whatever I don't want her doing and go find her bear. He says that doesn't work for him at all. We work opposite shifts and have different days off so we're often alone with DD. That leaves us not having much time to talk about parenting. We're trying to change our schedules and I really think it's become clear that we need each other to be around at the same time so that we're on the same page. And that way one parent can run errands and the other can stay home with DD.

Anyway thanks so much for letting me know I did okay with those scenarios. Now I just need to convince DH that he and DD will survive some time out and about together.

[MrsBone]

Sorry, but you did fine with your 14 month old, DH needs a little reality check though. Sounds like because he's never had to do it himself, he doesn't get it. And that's the case with a lot of parents. Especially if one parent stays at home while the other works outside of the home. Sounds like my situation. Hubby works 50+ hours a week and I stay home..so it's me, all the time, and DH gets the occasional breakfast out with the kid, and a little bit of one on one time during the weekdays (I'm talking 20-30 min, tops), so he just doesn't get it. No reason to get mad at them for it, but talking to him about it and explaining to him why you do what you do with your child should help him understand a little better. My DH rarely goes anywhere alone with our son, and if he does, it's not to run errands, or go to appointments..it's things like going out to eat, you know..fun stuff. Either that, or we all go together. So, trust me, I get it. But you are doing a great job.