Getting my 17 month old to say please - Page 2

[LROM]

Originally Posted by MrsBone

Well it seems like you all agree. I just figured since he can now say many words when I ask him to..like learning new word, I'll tell him to say "example" and he'll say it, so I figured asking him to say please wasn't a huge stretch. I just don't want it to get to the point where he doesn't ever say please as he gets older and feels like he can just whine to get what he wants. You don't think it will be too late to teach him that as he gets older? I'm all about gentle discipline and I don't want to be a tyrant, but I want to do the right thing. He's my first, so I'm not sure where to be a stickler and where to let things go. Ya know?

My DD is 18 months old and I've tried to introduce "please" (both word and concept) for about 2 months now (she's had a lot of words since she was about 15 months old) and it has just not caught on yet.

But what I've heard/read/been told is that this is the age (or beginning of the age) of testing boundaries, and that at this age they're still too young for it to be worth a power struggle over anything but the most important things. I've noticed that when I specifically tell her to do something or not do it, she looks at me and continues to do what I don't want her to do, but I've learned that instead of pushing and pushing and pushing I just take something away from her, explain that it's because she didn't do what she was supposed to, and she seems very content usually (and throws fits other times) to just go on about her business. It's like she's saying to herself "Hmmm, let's see if the world still works this way... yup, still works that way. Ok, onto the next thing!"

I just think this age is still young enough that they're still learning the basics of how to ask for what they want/need. I have no worry at all that even if she doesn't say please for a few more months, that she won't be able to learn it.

I don't think there's a "Please window" where, if your child doesn't learn it/do it in that window, all hope is lost. YOu've got more time mama!

[laughymama]

The only time my 24 month old says please is when he's telling ME to say please when I ask for a kiss. (It's a silly game we play.)

He can say it but he doesn't. We remind him daily when he asks for things. "You can say, 'milk please'" etc. and we make sure that we use it a LOT.

At this point it's just going to be a pointless power struggle to try to force him to say please or thank you or sorry. He'd rather plant his bottom on the floor and wail for half an hour than say 'please' when he doesn't want to.

I think the best way to foster manners and kindness is by example and gentle reminders. So we use please, thank you and you're welcome constantly when interacting with DS and with one another. We remind him but if he doesn't want to say it, he doesn't say it. If we made a big deal about it and tried to force it, it would only make him more determined to NOT say it.

[tankgirl73]

Going to chime in with more agreement, and hopefully some reassurance.

1) Too young to REQUIRE it.
2) Model, model, model.

If he really seems to understand the concept, then I think it's okay to ask him to say (or sign -- signing is great!) please when he's fussing. Like a pp said, if he whines for something you can just say something like "I hear that you want to nurse, but you're very whiny... can you ask nicely and say please?"

BUT if he's too upset to do so, I would absolutely not require it, not at that age. If they're whining, it's not because they're being manipulative or trying to weasel their way out of social politeness!! It's because they're emotionally immature, and unable to control themselves. If they're already whining, then they're probably already "too far gone" to be able to regain their self-control and calm down enough to ask politely, even if they would be able to ask politely when they're in a GOOD mood.

From their perspective, they're just being denied the things they NEED, and that's just too upsetting to handle... they might not even be truly hearing the request for a rewording, all they "hear" is their own internal anguish.

The great thing though, is that kids are MIMICS. That's how they learn EVERYTHING. They WANT to imitate the grown-ups. So like it's been said, there's no "please window" where if you miss it he'll be a rude brat for the rest of his life. If you don't FORCE the issue, he will just start using polite language because that's what everyone around him does, and he wants to be like the 'big people'!

Of course, if the rest of the family does NOT use please and thank you on a regular basis, then he won't pick it up, and he will resist attempts to teach him to do so... how artificial that would seem to him! And you'd also have to ask yourselves why you place so much importance on HIM using polite language if you don't use it yourselves. Either you truly believe that everybody should use it, and therefore you're being a little hypocritical and should strive to do better, or else you truly believe that it actually isn't all that important in the grand scheme of things, so why make it such a big deal for your son?

But if you do find it's important, and you model it consistently (either because you already were, or because you've decided to change habits and do it more), then he WILL pick it up.

I feel much the same way about "sorry"... MAKING a child say 'sorry' is meaningless. They're probably NOT sorry! What they need is help with empathy, learning to see how their actions have hurt someone, and modelling that saying 'sorry' is the correct way to begin to make amends.

Now for the reassurance... my daughter is now 3.5 yo and probably the politest kid I know. I *never* forced any of those words from her. She started saying thank you completely spontaneously sometime before age 2 (I can't recall exactly when). It was so adorable!!! Often accompanied with big hugs. It was really special and meaningful because we really knew it was heartfelt, self-prompted and real, not just because it was "expected".

'Please' was probably a little later, and I think we did a fair amount of prompting to remind her, or to suggest to her appropriate times to say it, but never REQUIRING it... I think we started insisting on 'please' more often around 2.5 or so, which matches what another pp said. By this age, she had enough self-control when she was a little upset (not full-blown tantrum of course) to be able to 'co-operate' with our guidance. We still wouldn't be absolutely authoritarian with requiring it, if she was too upset.

These days, if she's whining, we'll usually just say "how do you ask nicely?" Notice that we're not demanding that she say a particular word, it's more open. Of course we ARE expecting a certain word, but asking that way, I think, is much gentler, and makes it about them remembering to be nice to other people, rather than about following arbitrary rules imposed by authority figures. She'll often pout and say "please". "Please what?" "Please can I have such-and-such." "Okay then, yes you can, thank you for asking nicely!"

But she is 3.5yo, like 42 months old, more than TWICE as old as your son. And there are still times when she's too upset to do this! As she gets older, they're just less and less often. As she matures in her ability to self-control, we're just gradually increasing our insistence on politeness. But this is important- we are following HER abilities, rather than insisting that she follows OUR desired schedule. At 3.5yo, I'd say that it's ALMOST every time now.

"Sorry" has also developed quite naturally. We have NEVER required 'sorry'. Only modelled and suggested. And now she says it all the time lol... Today she asked for a straw in her cup, and we reminded her not to blow bubbles, and she said she wouldn't. A few minutes later, she blew a tiny bit of bubbles. She giggled and said "uh-oh, sorry!!" So cute!! And completely sincere. As 'sorry' should be.

[Bokonon]

I still have to remind my 5yo to say please sometimes. Remembering how and when to say the right word is an unrealistic expectation of a 17mo.

[MusicianDad]

Another one who considers 17 months too young to expect a please or thank you every single time, if at all. Even at an older age, I wouldn't with hold nursing or snuggle/bonding time to try and drag it out of my child. It puts way to much emphasis and energy it words IMO.

I didn't regularly start saying please until I was a teenager, I can tell you it was something both my parents actually tried to make me do when I was younger. It never stuck simply because it became all about "I can make you" and "no you can't" sort of argument.

[MrsBone]

Thanks so much everyone! I feel alot better about this now. My hubby was on the money. He thought I was being to hard on Ethan, and said that it will take time, we just have to practice with him. I thought he was being a softy. Thanks for all the advice. I won't stress about it for now!

[tankgirl73]

LOL... I'm another one with a hubby who's more the 'softy' while I'm more of the 'hard-nose'. I think we're luckier than the ladies with the opposite situation.

[LROM]

Funny coincidence, with us my DH thinks I'm more the softy and he's kinda harder on DD, but yesterday after posting on this thread when I got home from work she was asking for something by saying the word and pointing and DH handed it to her and she said "Thank you"! I was like "Did she just say "thank you"???" and he said "Yes, actually that's the 2nd time she's said it."

And that was definitely from modeling and telling her "Say thank you" and saying thank you to her when she does something. But it was NOT by forcing her or really pressing it.

OP sounds like you feel better, that's great cuz it sounds like you have nothing to worry about!

[Super~Single~Mama]

My son is starting to say "thank you" - and he just turned 17mo. But I think it has much more to do with ME saying "THANK YOU!" every time he does something nice (hands me a toy, puts something in the garbage, gives me a kiss, etc).

I say the word "Please" to him a lot - and by watching me model it he's learning very fast!

[newmum35]

Originally Posted by greenmagick

I try not to ever force please or sorry. I think those words end up meaning nothing and become just habit...I dont want that.

Once they are older I do require them to ask nicely (as long as they can handle it...not in the middle of a meltdown)...i will prompt for please sometimes but they dont have to say it to have their request filled. I guess I just hate the whole idea of "magic word"...say please and get what you want. So often then please is still said in a demanding or whining tone...

I thought I would be the only oddball here so I was glad to see this comment and I agree 100%

I absolutely hate please, most of the time.. At one point a year or so ago, I couldn't figure out why in the world my husband was trying to teach our toddler still learning how to talk to say "please" - except he likely grew up in a household where this was important. I did not (thank goodness). We didn't use "please" that I can recall and it was never an issue in my life.

Did you ever hear the phrase "Actions speak louder than words?" I believe it and think a persons actions are far more important than the words that come out of their mouths. (I'm referencing real life face to face encounters here, because online a persons words are more important because its the ONLY thing there is!)

Now if a child is asking for milk by throwing things at you, then that's a different story and I can understand wanting to try and teach him a better way to ask for something.... but to withhold milk and turn it into a power struggle because he hasn't said the magical word is just MEAN in my opinion. In this instance, I feel you were far ruder than he, and it was you who lacked the manners in this circumstance. You had placed such a great emphasis on words that they were above actions. His actions were telling you he was hungry- this was better than words in my opinion, he communicated his needs very well... did you listen? Instead you tried to get him to meet YOUR need to hear "please" while at the same time he fussed and tried to get you to meet HIS need for "milk." So you both tried at the same time to get your needs met, and in the end, nobody got theirs met (he never said please and you never gave him milk) - Actually this is incorrect, only one was a true NEED, and one was merely a WANT. The need should always trump the want. Since food is a human requirement for life, his request was the real NEED while your request was just a want.

Both words and actions can affect how someone feels, and ultimately, that is what is important. So if you are making someone feel bad (whether by words or actions) then something needs to change.

Some people can lack manners while using please and thank you at all the appropriate times and others can have manners without ever using these words. I've known both kinds of people in my life, and I far prefer the one who NEVER uses so called good mannered "words" but would give you the shirt off his back in a heartbeat, to the one who uses please and thank you one minute and belittles you the next (or even in the same sentence!)


With some people, please and thank you are overrated and overused. The more they are used, the less meaningful they become. Its nice to hear them once in a while, but I don't want to hear them 10 times a day.


Back to the episode where my husband began to teach our son "please" (he was probably same age as yours Im guessing) - he had apparently done this in the few hours he watched him while I was busy elsewhere. Later my husband wasnt even in the room, and my baby was asking for mama's milk "pleeeee" - I felt like my heart was ripped out. I quickly told him he did NOT have to say please for mama's milk. TO me, it sounds like begging. I was insulted! I am going to meet my sons need for nursing WITHOUT having to hear "magical" words! It bothered me terribly but I never made it into a big issue, just told him a few times over the next few days he didn't need to say please to ask for mama's milk, and during the times he was showing me his new signs and words (it didnt bother me nearly as much with other foods or things as it did for nursing) I smiled big and gave him what he wanted (just as I would have done otherwise) and after using it a zillion times for a few weeks, the novelty wore off and he stopped using it at every opportunity.

Originally Posted by MrsBone

So, I guess I let it go too long and now, he knows what it means, and knows how to sign it and say it but refuses. I don't think I've ever heard him say it when I ask. How do I deal with this? he says lots of other words, but throws a hissy fit when I tell him to say please for something. Today, he wanted to nurse, but would just fuss, so I wouldn't nurse him until he said please, or signed it. I finally just said to him if he would sign "milk" please then he could nurse. He went all day just distracting himself and didn't get to nurse and then at bed time, I just didn't give him the opportunity to fuss about it and took him in his room and nursed him to sleep. He passed out because he missed his nap earlier. Am I going about this wrong? Should I keep on him about saying please? I don't want him to think that if he fusses he'll get his way. I always thought he was too young to understand, but then realized that he did understand, and just didn't want to say it. Thanks in advance!

No. Its not like this at all. What you want him to think, is that YOU will always be there for him, fussy or not. We're human. We get fussy sometimes. Its ok to be sad, hungry, angry, scared, etc. We still deserve to have our needs met. You don't want him to feel that you are only going to be there for him and meet his needs if he is only acting "happy" (or using manners or certain words) do you? Is this what real love is?

What you want to do is to love him (and meet his needs, because loving someone also entails meeting their needs) unconditionally.


On a positive note, I'm so glad to hear that at the end of the day, good sense returned and you allowed him to nurse before he even had a chance to fuss. Thank goodness your mother instinct took over and prevented your brain from overanalyzing the use of words too much He was hungry and he needed to eat. Let him be a baby. Someday when he grows older and he learns how much using "please" means to you, then he will want to use it often on his own just to make you happy, because he loves you, and you will not need to actually "teach" it or force it out of him.


I would also suggest that a good time for learning new things is not when a child is hungry but after a full belly (or while eating). This seemed to be a good time to teach ours new things and I would imagine one would be much more receptive at that time. (I sure would anyway)

Originally Posted by MrsBone

Well it seems like you all agree. I just figured since he can now say many words when I ask him to..like learning new word, I'll tell him to say "example" and he'll say it, so I figured asking him to say please wasn't a huge stretch. I just don't want it to get to the point where he doesn't ever say please as he gets older and feels like he can just whine to get what he wants. You don't think it will be too late to teach him that as he gets older? I'm all about gentle discipline and I don't want to be a tyrant, but I want to do the right thing. He's my first, so I'm not sure where to be a stickler and where to let things go. Ya know?

I'm not sure why he has learned that he has to whine to get what he wants. You might want to address this issue first. If this has become a habit for whatever reason, I think its ok to help teach a constant whiner how to ask for the same thing a better way.... but you can do so entirely without ever using "please" - just by changing the tone of your voice, even with using the very same words.

"I want milk" can be said many different ways for example. Emulate the way you'd like it said after he says it, but I'd stop there with the teaching and fulfill the request (don't turn it into a power struggle and make him repeat after you for example) .. he'll probably get the hang of it after hearing it said correctly a few times.

And a child can still be a whiner, even while using "please!" All they have to do is add please to the sentence and say it the very same way. So clearly, what you are wanting has nothing to do with using "please" but you have a whiner on your hands and you want them to stop whining and start asking differently. Is this right?

If so, I'd leave "please" out of the equation and concentrate on letting him hear the way you'd like it said, just by changing the manner of the voice.