i really like my friend, but one of her kids is mean.

[elephantinhat]

hello,
i have a friend, who also homeschools, and we have become good friends. we see each other about 1-2x a week. her 5 y.o. gets along great with my 5y.o.dd, but her 7 y.o. is pretty manipulative and mean. she is pretty good at hiding it, and a lot of the time her mother steps in, but sometimes, she misses stuff, or it just gets old having to constantly step in because she is manipulating the little kids into eing mean to each other, or excluding one kid over another.
i will step in when i need to, but it is getting old, and since they are good friends and we see them often, it seems like every time we go, dd is excluded, then manipulated, then patronized, then excluded. for example, today, they were playing a game in their playroom, whch turned into a chase game. the older child told my dd that she couldn't play it was only for sisters. then when my friend told her that everyone could play and that is why they invited everyone over, the older girl agreed. but then the game turned into a wrestling match. which, most of the time i am okay with, as long as poeple are beign fair and not to rough. the older girl fell on top of my dd, then when she got up, seh used dd to stand up-pushing herself up on dd. dd didn't say anything, and i don't think the mother saw. and what would you say? the kid could just say she didn't mean too, didn't realize, etc.
its little stuff like that that bothers me. the more obvious stuff someone intervenes, but little stuff, what do you do?
and its hard to just say, we can't play. the younger one gets along very well with dd, and the mother and i get along and have alot in common.
wwyd?

[alfabetsoup]

I think you have 2 options:

1)speak to the 7yo yourself. Get a few stock phrases like 'that's not kind,' 'we are gentle and kind to each other,' 'the _x_ is for everyone to play with' etc.

2)don't play with them anymore.

I'd probably choose 2, personally. Life's too short to have kids around that are mean to my kids.

[ollyoxenfree]

There's only so much you can do to control the 7 y.o's behaviour. You can keep a close watch and intervene as much as possible. You risk offending the other mom, who may not like you interfering with her child.

You can coach your dd to stand up for herself. That's hard for a 5 y.o. It's also not effective if there's physical bullying going on - which is what some of this sounds like.

You can talk it out with the other mom and ask her to watch more closely and intervene more often. Reading between the lines, it sounds like you are reluctant to do that.

That leaves limiting contact with this girl. It isn't fair to your dd to expose her frequently to someone who is manipulative and mean, unless you are willing to protect her or give her the tools to protect herself.

[dawncayden]

I would try to talk to the mom about what is happening and maybe say that you would like to invite the 5 year old over to your house, so the smaller ones can play together. When the 7 year old agrees to be more respectful and a better friend then you can continue to go over to their house again.

[nico loves birth]

This is so often a challenge, especially with homeschooling families who spend so much time together. It is important to have mothers you get along with and finding one is hard enough, then to expect that all your kids will get along well too is asking a lot. As difficult as it may seem we have to deal with people we don't get along with all through life and you could look at this a a great learning opportunity for everyone. Your daughter could learn some great social skills here and maybe the 7yo might even learn that being manipulative is not a great place to be. I personally would definitely speak up for my child where needed whether there was a risk of upsetting the mother or not. Not an easy situation to be in! Good luck :0)

[elephantinhat]

well, that's the thing-
i have talked to dd about strategies to protect herself, i do step in when i have to, i've discussed it with my friend and she is on top of it and knows that this is a problem with her dd. the girl has been relegated to her room for playdates because she is being mean and exclusionary. and her mom does jump on it. but being around this kid is like being a helicoptor mom-which i don't want to be. AND she is a smart kid. and subtle, and often correcting her is hard because she is so subtle in what she is doing or saying. or discussing later with dd what exactly happened is hard to do cause it is over her head in terms of social subtlety.
i guess what this means is that we need to seek out new friends.
i agree that there will always be people in life who are mean and we need to learn coping skills and i feel that me being there and coaching dd in strategies to protect herself is one reason i like homeschooling.
i gues we need to seek out new friends. ugh.

[Learning_Mum]

The 7yo knows what she is doing. I don't think there's anything wrong in pulling her up on it. She can give you excuses but I think that you can still say "No. I know that you did that on purpose. That is unacceptable behaviour." There are times when you may not see what happens and you will need to give her the benefit of the doubt but if you see it, pull her up on it.

Could she maybe have a friend over to play when you guys go over there? That way she can play with her friend and maybe leave the little ones to play by themselves? I don't think it's fair on your DD to lose a friend because the friend has a mean older sister.

[CarrieMF]

Could she maybe have a friend over to play when you guys go over there? That way she can play with her friend and maybe leave the little ones to play by themselves? I don't think it's fair on your DD to lose a friend because the friend has a mean older sister.

I agree. It's hard being the 3rd playmate. It often ends up in fighting & attention getting behaviour(whether it's positive or negative attention)

[tanyam926]

When things like this happen over here I think that maybe the kids' personalities or difference in ages may not be a good fit at that particular time.

There are so many reasons why a child might be acting like a stinker on a particular day or situation; feeling left out, hungry/tired/not feeling well, having problem w/the dynamic of a particular group of children, going through a challenging developemental stage, etc. I have been blessed to be able to have experienced a child who is terribly frustrating sometimes (yes, I said blessed ) bc it makes me realize that we all go through things that make us hard to deal w/sometimes, and that we/the child/my son is not necessarily "mean", but just having a difficult time.

If in your situation I would have more structured play dates where there is a project and you and the other mom are actively helping the children so they aren't in a free play situation. (Not as fun for some, I hate doing art projects and I love having time to let the kids play while I chat w/my friend).

You could also pick an activity which allows the older child to become the leader and let her develop a sense of pride and accomplishment when she "helps" w/the younger ones.

If all that doesn't work you could tell your friend that the kids' personalities seem to be clashing and that maybe the kiddos should take a break from ea other for a couple of wks and then try again. Saying it in that way doesn't put the blame on one kid, but allows the kids to take a break from one another.

[BetsyNY]

Honestly, I think you need to remove yourself from the dynamic a little bit.

The "only sisters can play this game" crap is annoying, yet age-appropriate. Just put the kibosh on it and do it without judgment.

If your daughter didn't complain or say anything when this other girl "pushed up" on her so she could stand, maybe it didn't bother her. Kids have all kinds of dynamics when they play together--*you* might see this kid as being inappropriate, but if your daughter doesn't have the "social subtlety" to see what's going on, then what's the problem exactly?

[mamaofthree]

maybe the 7 yo is feel left out. could you suggest maybe having a buddy come over for the 7 yo? is there another family that you both get along with that might have a child closer to your friend's dds age?

instead of tossing out a good friend.

h

[SilverFish]

i'm also going to say that this is maybe less of a big deal than you're making it out to be. certainly not worth losing two good friends over.

first, it sounds like the 7 year old is a tiny bit bored and becoming conscious of the age difference between her and the two little ones. 2 years is enough of an age gap that she could be feeling some frustration in having to play with "little" kids, and being subtly mean and maniplulative is a way to tell herself that she's not a "little" kid herself. it would be great if she could relax and just play, but it sounds like she is having a hard time allowing herself to.

some strategies to try could be allowing the 7 year old bring her own friend to play... if it's possible, that sounds like the best way to at least see if it diffuses the situation. involving the older one in a different activity ("i thought you might be getting bored playing with the little ones all the time... if you want to do activity A, you're welcome to") and then if you see her being inappropriate, just redirect her to the other activity. even just acknowledging that she is older and more sophisticated than the younger ones when you have the opportunity to might be enough to relax her a bit...

you might want to talk to the mom about this in advance, and see if she thinks any of these might be good ideas to try. i would caution you on just assuming this child is flat out mean. obviously some kids are, but the chances of that being true when you find the other 2 family members to be pleasant and nice are slim. i would try some things to see if her behavior changes, but if it doesn't, and as long as her behavior isn't flat out dangerous, i'd let your daughter take the lead in telling you that she finds the older girl's behavior mean enough to want to stop the play dates all together.