Does delaying vax make them any less dangerous?

[mrs.t]

I am hoping to hear from those who have delayed vaxing. I have a 2 mo old DS, and I exclusively breastfeed. I am not putting him in daycare, if I go back to work my MIL will babysit, and there are no other children in the house. I live in NYC, so from what I understand I will have to get him vaxed before he goes to school. I have not done too much research on not vaxing, so anyone from the area can correct me if I'm wrong. Basically I was just looking to delay the vaccines until DS was a little older, so he could at least tell me what was wrong if he had a reaction. But does delaying them make them any less dangerous? I am mostly concerned with the DTaP side effects right now. I haven't even started to think about MMR yet. I'm basically looking at the ones he would need at his 2 month checkup.

[Marnica]

Theoretically, after the blood brain barrier is closed (doesn't fully close until puberty) but begins to close after 6 months old I think??? the odds of a reaction may decrease, but this does NOT IMO mean they are any less dangerous. You are still injecting the same ingredients, they still have the same toxic side effects. An older child's immune system MIGHT be better equipped to handle the onslaught, although it may not. It is a gamble really.


Sounds like you are at the beginning of your research. I would suggest holding off on any at the 2 mo appt until you can learn more and there is MUCH to learn.

As for NYC. NY has religiuous exemptions so No you do not HAVE to vax your child for school, although NY is notorious for being difficult in terms of religious exemptions. There are resourses to help if you go this route however.

[A&A]

Yeah, the liver needs until at least 6 mo. of age to process toxins.

[AFWife]

Also, isn't it true that if you delay past a certain age you don't need as many shots to complete a set?

[bbrandonsmom]

Hi, sounds like you are starting your research. Inside Vaccines has a bunch of info pretty broken down and easy, as well as the MDc links at the top, per disease. Also maybe check out Dr Sears on delaying.
Since you are ebf, (awesome), baby has protection. There are some nice studies done on Whooping Cough and breastfeeding-if you search here you may find them, I'll try to find and link, unless some one beats me to it.
Can I take it you've seen the recent news about "delaying vaccines"? I'd wait for any vax until you fully are ready to either vax w/ or w/o it. There's no rush imo. Look at one at a time so you don't get overwhelmed.

[mrs.t]

AFWife Also, isn't it true that if you delay past a certain age you don't need as many shots to complete a set?

afwife, that was another one of my questions, thanks.

[Emmeline II]

Here are some questions to answer for yourself in deciding about vax.

1. Name of the disease
2. Description of the disease
3. Length of time from initial infection to end of all symptoms
4. Infectious period
5. Normal symptoms of the disease
6. Known serious consequences of the disease
7. Proportion of persons infected developing serious consequences
8. Transmission route of the disease
9. Prevalence of the disease
10. Treatments of the disease and efficacy of those treatments
11. Relevant research about the disease
12. Name of the vaccine
13. Company that makes the vaccine
14. Contents of the vaccine
14A. The significance of whether or not the vaccine is live
15. History of development of the vaccine
16. Known side-effects of the vaccine and rate of incidence of those side-effects
17. Possible side-effects not yet acknowledged by the vaccine maker
18. Relevant research into the vaccine
19. How effective is the vaccine at preventing the disease?
20.What is the vaccine meant to do? (Many vaccines are not meant to prevent infection or transmission).
21.Number of cases reported each year.
22.Number of deaths reported each year from the vaccine and natural disease.

Here are some sources to help you out:

Vaccines: The Risks, The Benefits, The Choices 1/18DVD, By Sherri J. TENPENNY



http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/mmwr_wk.html (download the current issue)
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pin...k-chapters.htm
http://vaers.hhs.gov/pdf/PackageInserts.pdf
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...40451107552&q=
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...87981735&hl=en
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pin...ses&deaths.pdf

Health Sentinel Graphs

WHO GRAPH

Vaccine Injury Table

Beyond Conformity Resources Page
Do you have a quick-fire summary?

Inside Vaccines

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>

For an even handed treatment of the issue I recommend "Vaccinations, A Thoughfull Parents Guide" by Aviva Romm.
For keeping your dcn healthy and to treat VPDs: "Naturally Healthy Babies and Children: A Commonsense Guide to Herbal Remedies, Nutrition, and Health" by Aviva Romm and "How to Raise a Healthy Child in Spite of Your Doctor" by pediatrician Dr. Mendelsohn.


Manufacter's Inserts:
http://www.vaccinesafety.edu/package_inserts.htm

VAERS
You can search the VAERS database for reactions to recommended vaccinations.
http://www.medalerts.org/vaersdb/index.html

CDC Pink Book:
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/pink-text.htm

CDC Ingredients list:
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pin...nt-table-1.pdf

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pin...nt-table-2.pdf

Another Ingredients list:
http://www.informedchoice.info/cocktail.html

Vaccines are Not Mercury-Free:
http://www.*********/a/mercury7.html

FDA Safety Information

Tabled Vax Injuries

Compare # of Recommended Vaxes, 1983 to 2007:
Over Vaccination?

AAPS, Vaccines: Public Safety and Personnal Choice:
http://www.aapsonline.org/testimony/hepbstatement.htm

Graphs:

Disease Pattern Graphs from the 1800s to the Present Day

AAP: Responding to Parental Refusals of Immunization for Their Children
http://aappolicy.aappublications.org...115/5/1428.pdf

Inside Vaccines: A Forum for Parents from Parents
http://insidevaccines.com/wordpress/

Vaccine Schedules of other countries

But you can't travel THERE without vaccines (confirm with State Dept)...

Vaccines 2020

Age of Autism

Diptheria

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
History of Pediatric Immunization

In the early 1950s there were four vaccines routinely used in the United States: diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis, and smallpox.

As a result of the many additions and multiple doses required for most vaccines, the vaccine schedule has become very complicated. Now children may receive as many as 20 shots by two years of age and up to five shots in a single visit. . This information is summarized in
Table 2. http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/472398_3
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
WIC Eligibility & Vax
"Immunization records and/or an infant/child’s immunization status are in no way tied to the receipt of WIC benefits. "

JUST A LITTLE PRICK

The Dark Truth
The Erosion of Public Trust & Informed Consent through Immunization Harassment, Discrimination and Coercion
Result of the "Erosion" document in Texas
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Vaccine Injury Table: http://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/table.htm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Marissa's story

Chicken Pox Vaccine and Stevens-Johnson syndrome...


__________________________________________________ _______

Your religious beliefs can change, so you can exempt a previously vaxed child. You could also pretend your child is not vaxed to make life easier.


Some states, like NY(contact Gary Krasner for help -- On the NYS form they request that your letter:

-explains why are you are requesting the exemption
-describes the religious principles that guide your objection to vaxes
-indicates whether you are opposed to all vaxes, and if not, why you are opposed to some vaxes but not others

As long as your letter covered those 3 points then they shouldn't ask for any "supporting evidence".)


and NJ allow the state to question the sincerity of your beliefs; the following is VERY important.



-For a religious exemption you need to be "against the practice of vaccination". If you give your reasons to be against vaccinations as:

"I'm against vaccination because they use aborted fetal cells" - This is a philosophical reason.

"I'm against pre-marital sex and some vaxes are for sexually transmitted diseases." This is a philosophical reason.

Again, you have to be against the the practice of vaccination. For a more through explanation of why this is read the Wexler decision below.

-Also, you DO NOT have to be a member of a religion doctrinally opposed to vaccination. You can be Wiccan, Lutheran, Catholic, Jewish, church of the flip flops, and still claim a religious exemption do to your personal religious beliefs against the practice of vaccination. Dr. Mercola does a good job of explaining this in my Religious Exemptions link below (you may have to register to read it).

-One more thing, you do not want to include specific biblical verses as your interpretation could be challenged. You need to describe your personal religious beliefs.


-Require that all questions regarding your exemption be in writing and give answers in writing. Do not give verbal responses.



How to Legally Avoid Vaccinations

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Religious Exemptions

The Wexler Decision

To find out what exemptions are offered by your state (for school and such) check here:
http://www.nvic.org/Vaccine-Laws/sta...uirements.aspx
http://www.novaccine.com/law-exemptions/


All states except West Virginia and Mississippi offer religious and/or philosophical exemptions, and the supreme court ruled that you do not have to belong to a non-vaxing religion or have clergy sign your religious exemption. Exemptions can be submitted in lieu of vaccination records (I would do it this way).

State mandatory vaccination laws have their roots in the 1905 U.S. Supreme Court decision, Jacobsen v Massachusetts. A Swedish Lutheran pastor, Reverend Henning Jacobsen and his son objected to a law requiring revaccination with smallpox vaccine because they had suffered severe reactions to the first vaccination. The nine Supreme Court justices at the turn of the century denied Jacobsen and his lawyers the right to present scientific evidence for harm caused by the smallpox vaccine, preferring to believe the lawyers representing public health officials who convinced them that doctors could predict ahead of time who would be injured by vaccination.

100wds.



A US Federal Court ruling (binding on NY only) that determined that you do not have to belong to a particular religion to use a religious exemption is:
Sherr v. Northport-East Northport Union Free Sch. Dist., 672 F. Supp. 81, 89-90 (E.D. N.Y. 1987)
http://www.vaclib.org/exempt/consent.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/...es_chptr13.htm

"Just say that you believe God (I personally prefer the Universe, but it's best just to conform to the typical Judeo-Christian thing for the sake of getting it done) created us perfect and you believe that it is wrong and arrogant to believe we can improve upon God's perfect creation. Therefore, it would be a violation of your religious principle's to vaccinate your perfectly healthy children."

Sample Religious Exemption Letter(change the state law reference):

Quote:
To whom it may concern;



(We / I) {First and Last name(s)}, as the {(parent (s) / guardian(s)} of ______________________(name of newborn child) are exercising (our/my) rights under the US Constitution, PUBLIC HEALTH LAW, ARTICLE 21. CONTROL OF ACUTE COMMUNICABLE DISEASES,TITLE VI. POLIOMYELITIS AND OTHER DISEASES, NY CLS Pub Health § 2164 (2002), to receive Religious Exemption from Vaccination, ALL injections, prophylaxis, & testing due to our genuine and sincere religious beliefs which are contrary to the practices herein required.

The U.S. Supreme Court held in Frazee V. Illinois Dept. of Security, 489 U.S. 829, that a religious belief is subject to protection even though no religious group espouses such beliefs or the fact that the religious group to which the individual professes to belong may not advocate or require such belief. This ruling is also reflected in Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 as amended Nov. 1, 1980; Part 1605.1-Guidelines on Discrimination Because of Religion.


Sincerely,

Your signature.
Date

[Deborah]

It depends on what you mean by less dangerous.

Reactions seem to be less common as people age, although they still occur. The problem is, if your child is the one to get a reaction, then the chance is 100%. If they don't get a reaction the chance is 0%. Can you know in advance which group your particular kid will be in? Ditto, of course for the illnesses, although there is generally more data available, if you dig, on the normal course of various illnesses and the health conditions which make problems more likely. Vaccines are more of a black box, so it feels like you are taking a bigger chance...

Look into Gardasil. The youngest girls who have been getting this vaccine are 9 years old. There are a lot of reactions reported, some of them very serious. It doesn't look like being older provides a total shield, does it?

[newmum35]

Originally Posted by AFWife

Also, isn't it true that if you delay past a certain age you don't need as many shots to complete a set?

True with some vaccines. Hib comes to mind, starting with 4 in the series if begun in infancy. But after so long only one is needed (around age 2 I think, but I forget offhand) - its not even given at all after age 5

[CherryBomb]

I agree that it depends on what you mean by dangerous, which varies from person to person. For me, the parts per million etc are so small I'm just not concerned about most of the ingredients (same reason I don't worry about potentially dangerous things in homeopathics)

I'm not sure that we really count as delayed vaxers, we delay the hep b in the hospital and just get it done with the 2 month shots instead. I just don't like shooting up a newborn After that we vax on schedule.

[karika]

IMO, after my research, delaying would make no difference. If I give the same substance which I believe is harmful to a 7 yo or a 6 mo it is still harmful. The ingredients and how they are produced are the problem IMO. I also believe the assumptions behind vaccinations are flawed and inaccurate. By this I mean I do not believe vaccinations prevent disease. I believe quite the opposite, that they create ill health through toxicity. I believe vaccinations are all part of a plan that was put in place long ago to create ill health in the majority of the population so they could be controlled easier by the few.
I believe in the research of Dr. Andrew Moulden as being the closest to the truth of what happens. In his research (he has many certifications and degrees, one of which is brain related) he found that after every vaccine, the brain experiences a mini stroke. This is what causes the neurological damage that has become so commonplace. He believes all vaccinations should halt now from what I have read. I also like Dr Russell Blaylock. Dr Tenpenny is Fantastic too! Sears is way too watered down for me... I love Emmeline II's post! You could use it as a research template very easily.

I was pushed into getting dd1's shots at her 2 mo checkup. It was just when I had begun researching. I got the ones at birth too since I didn't know any better. I did not take her to any more wbv at an MD office. I believe she was damaged by the shots. I believe far more people are damaged than realize it. dd2 will receive no shots and dd1 no more.

[mrs.t]

Thank you everyone for the replies! I can't believe I went from thinking I was going to vax on schedule to now either delaying vaccines or mot getting them at all! I work with special ed students, so seeing my healthy baby and hearing the stories about vax damaged kids is really scary, especially because I probably work with some of them. Also, my brother developed epilepsy at 4 mos of age, now I'm starting to wonder if vaccines had anything to do with it. He's 32 now so I guess I'll never know...but it scares me enough to make me do more research for my own DS. Thanks for giving me more to think about. I know I won't be getting anything done at his appointment on monday.

[Asiago]

Originally Posted by mrs.t

Also, my brother developed epilepsy at 4 mos of age, now I'm starting to wonder if vaccines had anything to do with it. He's 32 now

I'm sorry to hear about your brother's epilepsy. The following excerpt from "Epilepsy: A Comprehensive Textbook" gives info on the possible relation of various children who developed epilepsy or "mental retardation" after vaccination in 1974 with Pertussis (whole cell probably, now it's acellular). It's in the last two paragraphs on the page:

http://tinyurl.com/2b3j6de

[an_domhan]

Originally Posted by A&A

Yeah, the liver needs until at least 6 mo. of age to process toxins.

That's a good point, because there is evidence that vaccination suppresses certain detox pathways.

BBB and myelination are also good reasons to wait...

[mrs.t]

Asiago-Thank you for that link. I never thought anything of my brother's epilepsy until starting to research for my own son...now I wonder, could it have been related? Interesting and scary.

[poppan]

Thanks for asking this question -- I read the replies with interest. I had always assumed that delay *would* make a difference -- if nothing else, at least you are administering the dose to say, 30 pounds of child rather than 5-6 pounds (the weight my DD was when she got her first shot -- Hep B at discharge from the NICU -- oh and did I mention she was born prematuredly at 34.5 weeks... but I digress). Anyway, interesting points made by all, I learn so much here. Thanks.

[Channelle]

Originally Posted by mrs.t

Asiago-Thank you for that link. I never thought anything of my brother's epilepsy until starting to research for my own son...now I wonder, could it have been related? Interesting and scary.

Butting in, but my little brother had the same issue, one my family thinks was caused or aggravated by his immunizations. I don't vaccinate my daughter, one reason is because if my brother had bad reactions to the vaccines, then I suspect that my daughter might also be biologically inclined to have a bad reaction since they are so closely related. Watching my brother have to deal with epilepsy and other problems, it's something I definitely don't want my daughter to go through.

[Maiasaura]

Originally Posted by poppan

if nothing else, at least you are administering the dose to say, 30 pounds of child rather than 5-6 pounds

This.

Why would this not matter? My ds isn't vaxed, but he's now 60lb and not 6. I thought about selectively vaxing now, and not all at once. I am absolutely opposed to vaxing babies and small children, but not necessarily opposed to older people vaxing, depending.
What would the difference be in what he would receive now as opposed to what he would have received as a baby? I mean as in which vaxes?

Not to hijack. If this isn't relevant, I'll move it. I am curious about the quote, though, and why 55 extra pounds and 9 years wouldn't make a difference.
Also, why I, and so many of my generation (born late 1959, vaxed until 1975 or so) never got vax reactions at all?
I got the first MMR combo in...hmm, 1972? When it first came out.

[cyberfish]

Originally Posted by Maiasaura

This.

Also, why I, and so many of my generation (born late 1959, vaxed until 1975 or so) never got vax reactions at all?
I got the first MMR combo in...hmm, 1972? When it first came out.

I know someone of the same generation who was deafened by a measles shot in the 1960s. Both she and her brother had the same reaction and their parents were told, at the time, that the vax had caused their deafness.

[alegna]

Originally Posted by Maiasaura

Also, why I, and so many of my generation (born late 1959, vaxed until 1975 or so) never got vax reactions at all?
I got the first MMR combo in...hmm, 1972? When it first came out.

As mentioned- there WERE vax reactions then. I think of it as a matter of numbers- if someone born in 1959 got (making up a number) 5 vaccines total and someone born in 2009 got (again, making up the number) 30 vaccines then that's 6 times as many. Perhaps 6 times as likely to have a reaction?

-Angela