Witnessed a mom spank/beat her son today - Page 2

[AFWife]

Originally Posted by crunchy_mommy

That is so sad, how horrible!

I wonder if there's any way to intervene if you or I or anyone else witnesses something like that again? Like legally could we step in & physically remove the child from their tyrade??

I don't know. I don't think so. Especially in places where spanking isn't illegal. I know that I'd be pissed if someone thought I was being cruel to my child (for whatever reason...even scolding) and "removed him" from me...

[mamadelbosque]

Yeah, I can't imagine you'd get very far trying to 'remove' a child from his/her mother/father for mearly spanking them. Honestly, you'd be liable to be charged with kidnapping more than the parents with abuse. Spanking is not illegal most places. Its not even unusual in many areas... and I for one can *not* imagine what I'd do to someone who tried to remove my kid(s) from me because they disagreed with my parenting.

[crunchy_mommy]

But I just can't imagine standing by doing nothing. To me that is so much more than 'disagreeing with parenting choices' -- I mean, if we saw a 25-year-old woman being hit by her boyfriend, we'd step in & stop them, right? And legally that would be acceptable? But kids just have to suffer, because it's their PARENTS hitting them, so that makes it OK? Is there a point where it IS acceptable to intervene?

Obviously I don't want to be charged with kidnapping or something (and in any case, I'm just talking about pulling the kid away from their parent 'til the parent calms down, not walking out of the store with them or something)... but I would feel morally obliged to step in... this is a hard one for me, it's not like any other 'parenting choice'...

[mamadelbosque]

And yet, thats all it is. You disagree with spanking. Thats fine. You don't have to spank your kids. Some people disagree with not vaxing - even think people should have their kids taken away for it (they call it 'medical neglect'). But, that doesn't mean they can, doesn't mean they should. In the eyes of the law, in the eyes of many (even most in some places) parents, spanking is *the* way to discipline children. No ifs ands or buts about it... and you are not going to change their minds, certainly not by grabbing their child away from them while they are trying to discipline them. As like as not, the kid would just get in more trouble later on, and so would you - cops *could* be called in that case, I would think (I mean, just imagine that some stranger grabbed your child away from you for something, anything, and refused to let you take them back untill you had "calmed down" to their likings... somehow I don't think I'd be calming down anytime soon, while some strange woman held onto my child!!).

[AFWife]

Originally Posted by crunchy_mommy

But I just can't imagine standing by doing nothing. To me that is so much more than 'disagreeing with parenting choices' -- I mean, if we saw a 25-year-old woman being hit by her boyfriend, we'd step in & stop them, right? And legally that would be acceptable? But kids just have to suffer, because it's their PARENTS hitting them, so that makes it OK? Is there a point where it IS acceptable to intervene?

Obviously I don't want to be charged with kidnapping or something (and in any case, I'm just talking about pulling the kid away from their parent 'til the parent calms down, not walking out of the store with them or something)... but I would feel morally obliged to step in... this is a hard one for me, it's not like any other 'parenting choice'...

Would I step in front of an angry man acting out violently? Uh, no...at that point it would be a matter of safety for ME as well. Besides, I've been in an abusive relationship (emotional/verbal) and I can tell you that if someone speaks up and "makes a scene" it's worse for the victim later.

[FishBounce]

As bad as it is to see that in public, an outside observer for just a few moments in their lives can't really make a logical judgement. We don't know what philosophies that mom holds to, or what kinds of stressors are in her life. KWIM? I'm not trying to justify, but trying to look at the other side.

When my boys (now 9 and 7) were small, I actually had a busybody step in and try to take my youngest son from the cart at Walmart. She heard me cursing to my husband on the phone, and assumed I was calling my baby a little s#!%. You just never know. I'll be the first to admit that I flipped out on her COMPLETELY. Although I felt she had no business jumping into my family, clearly she though she did. How would you guys react if someone did that to you?

I think it's different when you either 1) know the person OR 2) see an act that clearly violates your local law and can call the authorites and know they will respond in time.

[philomom]

Originally Posted by FishBounce

As bad as it is to see that in public, an outside observer for just a few moments in their lives can't really make a logical judgement. We don't know what philosophies that mom holds to, or what kinds of stressors are in her life. KWIM? I'm not trying to justify, but trying to look at the other side.

When my boys (now 9 and 7) were small, I actually had a busybody step in and try to take my youngest son from the cart at Walmart. She heard me cursing to my husband on the phone, and assumed I was calling my baby a little s#!%. You just never know. I'll be the first to admit that I flipped out on her COMPLETELY. Although I felt she had no business jumping into my family, clearly she though she did. How would you guys react if someone did that to you?

I think it's different when you either 1) know the person OR 2) see an act that clearly violates your local law and can call the authorites and know they will respond in time.

I agree that witnesses sometimes think they see one thing but the story is so much different.

My son once was having a tantrum during a nice meal out. I took him outside and tried to corner him with my body both to shield him from prying eyes and not give him a chance to run away.... some guy came up and said he would call the police on me.. that he saw me hit my son's head into the wall. Uh, no.... I hadn't even touched my boy that point.. I merely was herding him with own movements.

Back to the spanking.... sometimes if you interfere you make things worse for these kids. If they were "so bad" as to attract attention.. they make get a worse beating at home. Trust me, I grew up in the sunny South. I did not know anyone growing up who was not spanked as a child.

[~Charlie's~Angel~]

OK, I am going to split hairs, but not in the way you are porbably thinking.

I have not read through this thread, although I tried when it was first started. I got through the first sentence of the OP, and realized I just couldnt do it. But now, everytime this thread comes up in new posts, its hitting a major nerve for me with the the spank/beat part. The thought is a major trigger for me.

I have seen other posters ask to have thread names changed before. I do not know if it something I can do, but this is me respectfully asking for a thread name alteration. Por Favor? I am told ALOT that I am way to sensative. Maybe I am, but the thought of ANY CHILD being treated as the very title of this thread suggests makes me want to retreat into myself with my kids in tow and disappear off the grid.

I am so so sooooo sorry if this a totally awful thing to ask. Please forgive me if it is.

for children everywhere who know anything less then the love and security they deserve.

[ancoda]

Hopefully you not just agreeing with her gave her something to think about later when she had some time to calm down. You never know when what you have to say will start the seed of change in someone.

[DaughterOfKali]

That poor boy. Ugh, I can't stand reading stuff like this. I feel so helpless.

[gbailey]

Originally Posted by crunchy_mommy

But I just can't imagine standing by doing nothing. To me that is so much more than 'disagreeing with parenting choices' -- I mean, if we saw a 25-year-old woman being hit by her boyfriend, we'd step in & stop them, right? And legally that would be acceptable? But kids just have to suffer, because it's their PARENTS hitting them, so that makes it OK? Is there a point where it IS acceptable to intervene?

Obviously I don't want to be charged with kidnapping or something (and in any case, I'm just talking about pulling the kid away from their parent 'til the parent calms down, not walking out of the store with them or something)... but I would feel morally obliged to step in... this is a hard one for me, it's not like any other 'parenting choice'...

I personally wouldn't step in if a man is beating his girlfriend. I know a guy who did intervene when this happened and he hit the guy. Guess who went to jail? The guy trying to help the poor woman who defended her man when the police arrived. I also would not step into a violent fight. I would call the police however.

I also would never remove a child from a parent even if I think what they are doing is blatantly wrong and would not recommend any parent remove a child. I would never have the gall to do this and think it would be highly inappropriate for me or any other person. As another poster said, the story could be completely different from what you think you are seeing.

I feel sorry for anyone who would try to remove their child from me in any situation.

[crunchy_mommy]

OK but there's a difference between a spanking and a beating, and my impression of what OP described is that it crossed that line. I'm not talking about intervening when a parent gives a tap or two to the kid's bum, I vehemently disagree with it but I wouldn't even think of stepping in. I'm talking about when it crosses that line between a spanking and a beating... Maybe I'm not making sense. Maybe I'm crazy. I just couldn't stand by & watch ANYONE get beat... kid or adult, woman, man, etc... And yes I was spanked and yes I was in a deadly abusive relationship... But I guess I'm out of line here...

[gbailey]

Originally Posted by crunchy_mommy

OK but there's a difference between a spanking and a beating, and my impression of what OP described is that it crossed that line. I'm not talking about intervening when a parent gives a tap or two to the kid's bum, I vehemently disagree with it but I wouldn't even think of stepping in. I'm talking about when it crosses that line between a spanking and a beating... Maybe I'm not making sense. Maybe I'm crazy. I just couldn't stand by & watch ANYONE get beat... kid or adult, woman, man, etc... And yes I was spanked and yes I was in a deadly abusive relationship... But I guess I'm out of line here...

Crunchy, you're totally making sense. I just personally don't think removing a child from the parent is a good move. I think there are ways to help a child and/or an an abused woman. Your intentions are obviously good but could be problematic.

[crunchy_mommy]

Originally Posted by gbailey

Crunchy, you're totally making sense. I just personally don't think removing a child from the parent is a good move. I think there are ways to help a child and/or an an abused woman. Your intentions are obviously good but could be problematic.

OK so maybe I should rephrase what I was trying to ask -- WHAT is the best way to intervene?

[AFWife]

Originally Posted by crunchy_mommy

OK so maybe I should rephrase what I was trying to ask -- WHAT is the best way to intervene?

In the case of the OP I think she handled it well. I would say handle the parent the same way you would want them to handle the child. Like, reaffirm feelings, offer a suggestion, and then leave it. (I know you wouldn't "leave it" with a kid but some things have to be different) Would I tell an angry parent that they shouldn't spank their child because it's abusive? Hell no. Making an accusation to and angry person will NOT get you anywhere.