7 y/o and prozac???

[rlandnl]

Hi!

I have posted here a couple times (in SN) but it's been a while. My son has a diagnosis of Asperger's and Generalize anxiety as well as sensory processing disorder.

His anxiety is pretty bad. Whenever we are out in public there is a meltdown of some sort, it could be over a piece of candy he wants, or going to the stores "out of order" getting something I didn't tell him before hand we were going to get (I have to tell him where we are going, in what order and what we are getting. Honestly I love the days I say groceries best because if I add something to the cart that wasn't specifically said then he gets mad but if it's groceries then that encompasses everything at the grocery store) anyway...

He also is "sick" all the time. Like we had an IEP meeting the other day, he has been out of school since March when I started homeschooling, but will be trying to go back next year. He had to come with us since we had no one to watch him. The entire time he was in there he had to sit in either my lap or DHs because he was "so sick to his stomach". He couldn't stand it. Finally DH had to give him his watch so that he could watch the time till it would be over. (we told him what time but built in a cushion for ourselves in case it ran over). Anyway- as soon as the meeting was over, literally as soon as we left the room he was jumping running and felt fine.

I think a lot of it was anxiety over meeting his new teacher. His teacher that he had for most of this year was HORRIBLE, and this new teacher seems like she's going to be great, but he still has a ton of anxiety built up. We tried to get him to go to the special ed room so he could play (he goes there on tuesdays every week so he knows the room and the teachers so it's not an issue of it being new he loves it there) but he just couldn't separate from our laps because he was "so sick".

I fell bad for him, I really do. It's not normal for a 7 year old to be clinging to mom and dad sick like that, and then be fine. I know he's "suffering". Currently he has 1 hour 15 minutes of OT a week - 30 through the school disctrict and 45 outpatient through the hospital, 30 minutes of social skills group at school, 30-45 minutes of special ed at school and 50 minutes of counseling a week (CBT). (the school stuff is over now since school ends this week but it will start up in Sept again and they are upping his OT to 60 minutes a week).

His developmental ped has suggested that we try some techniques from "the explosive child" and the incredible 5 point scale (which both myself and the counselor do not believe he is ready for since he doesn't have an in between it's all's fine or complete and total meltdown. He just isn't in control enough for that yet). Anyway she said if in 6 weeks that doesn't work we should consider medicating him- prozac.

I am so hesitant to put him on it. I read about bad side effects, I think about what could it possibly to do a developing mind. I think about the fact that he had seizures from birth to 6 months with no known origin, severe seizures, and I worry about altering his brain even more. I worry I will lose the personality I love so much in him. But then I think about the times that he is out of control, the times that he is "sick", he can't enjoy being like that either. I just don't know what to do.

Do any of you have any insight in medicating your child? are you glad you did? what about those of you who chose not to, do you regret it? did things get "worse" as they got older?

I am also hesistant to base my decision on the next 6 weeks, in 11 weeks I am due to have baby number 2 in the next 3 months or so he is going to go through a lot of changes- going back to school, having a sibiling for the first time... I just feel lost with this decision!!

[LynnS6]

I don't have any advice to give, but I will share a story from a friend of mine.

My friend has a son with SEVERE ADHD and SPD. When they began their journey into helping him, they were determined not to medicate (her husband's a doctor, so they're not opposed to allopathic medicine). They did OT, counseling and lots of stuff at home. But, with the combination of sensory seeking SPD and ADHD, he would explode without warning. Things were getting worse, not better. They had exhausted all the non-drug options.

Eventually, they tried stimulants, but it just made things even worse (he's got the kind of ADHD that doesn't respond to those). Finally, they tried Risperdal which is an atypical antipsychotic. It's got side effects. It was not where they wanted to be. It took them months to even consider it.

And the result? According to my friend "Risperdal gave him a few seconds to think before reacting." They used it for a year or two, all the while working with a counselor and an OT. Then they were able to discontinue it. But that time on Risperdal, even though they didn't want to go there, gave him time to learn skills that he could then use when he wasn't on Risperdal.

I don't know if Prozac is right for your son. The question is whether his anxiety is so high that it's preventing him from learning the skills he needs to learn to cope with it. Would a short time on something like Prozac enable him to learn those skills?

I would definitely talk to the doctors about it, and I wouldn't put him on it without meeting with a pediatric psychiatrist who can fully inform you of the risks. No one really wants to put their 7 year old on anti-anxiety meds, but then no one really wants to see their 7 year old suffer from anxiety either. It's such a tough choice.

[joensally]

(((hugs))) This must be very, very stressful.

I think that pharmacological intervention led by a very experienced doctor sounds appropriate. If he can't manage 5 point scales due to his intensity, and he's in constant fight or flight mode, where is going to find the ability to make progress? Meds can calm down parts of the system that are overwhelming the whole system and allow a child to focus and make gains. He deserves relief from what must be very stressful.

[BookGoddess]

It sound stressful for both of you. If it were me, I would give a trial of the medication. Medications may be overprescribed to some children but there are definitely a group of children who benefit from the meds. It sounds like you've really thought a lot about it. If you've tried other measures and they haven't helped and your child is suffering then giving a fair trial of a medication isn't something to be feel bad about.

You're not medicating Asperger's. You're giving medicine for a condition that goes hand in hand with AS, sometimes. You're also not making a committment to medicate your son forever. You can try this med, see if it helps, and if does you can continue it for a period of time, and if doesn't help, you can stop it and try something else.

[Linda on the move]

Have you considered an alternative school placement for him? Is an autism only classroom an option?

My DD primary dx is asperger's and her anxiety got far, far worse during puberty. We are trying a different school placement next year, and meds are a possiblity. I will not let her suffer as much in the future as I have in the past.

[buttercup784ever]

I never thought that I would put my child on medications like that either. My son is diagnosed ADHD, and is inability to concentrate in class was really damaging to his self esteem. My husband and I were reluctant to even address this with a doctor because we knew that the likely outcome would be medication.

My son would cry at school because he knew he let his teacher down when he didn't finish his work. If he did something impulsive at home and was reprimanded he would run to his closet crying and talk to himself about how stupid he was. We were lucky in a way that he wasn't defiant or violent by nature, so we could see clearly that this wasn't a discipline issue. I think it would have been harder for us to see the pain he was in if that were the case.

Anyway, once we talked with the neurologist/psychiatrist, and we went over our family history, it was pretty clear that we needed to intervene quickly. Our doctor put it very well. He said that the damage he is doing to himself through his negative self image could become a permanent feeling. "He is stamping his soul," is how he put it.

We started him on Focalin, which is a long lasting stimulant just taken once in the morning and wears off in the afternoon. It made an immediate difference! He came home from school that first day SO happy and proud of himself. There were some side effects. He has some tics, and the Focalin has made them worse, but he doesn't even notice them. We will be trying a different adhd medicine this summer to see if it is as effective as the Focalin without the tics increasing.

As far as damaging developing brains and long term effects.... all I can say is that yes that is something I worry about. But honestly, it got to the point that I knew that if we DIDN'T do anything, he would be damaged emotionally. There is no doubt in my mind, knowing both my and my husband's families, that it would have gotten worse. I hope that if this med does any damage to him that he'll understand later that we were doing the very best we could to help him. Seeing how happy he is now makes me feel a little better about it, but there's always that nagging feeling you're doing something wrong, I think.

[rlandnl]

I have to thank you guys so much.

It is a heartwrenching decision, and one that I was hoping I would never have to make. I am someone who shuns medication for myself, and my family, in fact I shocked his new doctor when he was 6 and informed him when he prescribed him penicillin that he had only been on 2 courses of antibiotics in his life.

You have all given me a lot to think about, sometimes when he is in tantrum mode, or fight mode as another poster called it, it's hard for me to see it as his anxiety and something that can be fixed even though I KNOW that's what it is, but last night, I put him to bed at 8pm, he went to bed happy enough, but he came out of his room 3 times saying he couldn't sleep. I told him that was ok he didn't have to. he could play quietly in his room. I went up at 9:45 to go to the bathroom and he came out of his room, he said he couldn't sleep still. So I went in and talked to him, talked about the fun stuff we could do in the morning, talked about how I didn't mind if he didn't go to sleep that he could just watch tv and relax. But then he get hysterical. Crying that he would be up all night, that he couldn't sleep, that he "couldn't stop thinking". And I said to myself right then and there that it had to be anxiety that was causing that. And how fair is it to him to not be willing to try the meds if he was going to suffer like that. And I know the tantrums are anxiety too, I know it it's just harder to see...

To the poster who asked about other school placement. Unfortunately where I live there is nothing like that, but we are considering very seriously moving in 2 years, and where we would be moving to I believe there are other options. but money is also a factor. I am in the process (I just started) of applying for SSI for him, so if he gets that it would help with alternative placement. However the school would have to be able to deal with a child that while he has "issues" he is also extremely bright and is well above grade level in every area.

You have all given me much to think about, and I feel like I am better equipped to make a decision based on something other than emotion

[lotusdebi]

Have you tried supplements? GABA and Magnesium helped my son a lot. His anxiety and meltdowns decreased tremendously. He's also on melatonin, fish oil, vitamin D, and a casein-free diet. He's a much calmer child, more in control of his actions, and much less explosive. We go to a DAN (Defeat Autism Now) doctor who advises us on supplements and dietary changes, but none of them require a prescription.

We don't do prescription psych meds because of my concerns about how they affect the developing brain and because of my own experiences taking them. We're trying less invasive options - even if they're more "trouble" (like diet changes) - first.

Hope that helps.

[rlandnl]

we haven't tried supplements, i don't even know what GABA is lol...

as for dietary changes i will be 100% honest and say that is practically out of the question, he is VERY limited in what he will eat, think cereal EVERY morning, PB&J every lunch (since he was 2 EVERY SINGLE DAY), and dinner some but VERY little variety and there is no way he will tolerate taking gluten, casin or dairy out of his diet- he eats cheese, milk and yogurt always so when I know he won't eat anything else I know he will eat those things. Not to mention I have a DH who is also VERY picky (i mean so picky he outright refuses to eat whoel grain bread, won't eat crusts off his sandwiches, nothing can have sauces etc the list goes on and on) between the their self imposed dietary restrictions I go mad. Cost is another prohibitive thing on the dietary front, I can't afford to get DS all the special foods, and DH the regular stuff, plus the whole grains for myself, since DS and I currently eat the good bread and DH the crap stuff.

I thank you for your suggestions though and I will look into what those supplements are...

[karika]

Sounds like your son NEEDs the GFCFSF diet. The very fact that he is limiting his food the way he is screams that he is intolerant to them. Most children with ADHD, Asperger's, Autism, any spectrum dx crave and eat only casein, soy and gluten products (sandwiches, nuggets, cheese, mac n cheese). This is because their bodies are addicted to them. And it is doing their brain and gut more harm. Many thousands of families are healing their children with food. In many ways it really does come down to the food really. There will be a period of withdrawal, so do not let that scare you. He will get worse before getting better most likely (though we did not experience that here, many do). There are GFCFSF ready made food you can use during the changeover, though I just make everything from scratch. And it can be done on a food stamp budget. I would ask that you research the GFCFSF diet first. Here are some links.

http://gfcf-diet.talkaboutcuringauti...fcfsf-diet.htm
"ASD children usually self-limit their diet to a handful of things – usually all gluten and casein, and many times light-colored foods only. The typical ASD child can be down to a menu of chicken nuggets, French fries or chips, bananas, milk and yogurt. Parents report that their children “refuse all other foods” leading to poor nutrition."

http://gfcfdiet.com/successstories.htm

This site has people that have volunteered to be a liason for parents
http://www.generationrescue.org/recovery/rescueangels?

http://www.generationrescue.org/recovery

Please find a DAN doctor. Here is a listing.
http://www.generationrescue.org/recovery/doctors

This group can help you tremendously, but it is very high volume. Many will answer your questions for you.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GFCFKids/

dd1 does not have a dx, but she does have some damage(mercury from the dentist telling me pregnancy was a great time to have my old fillings replaced and she got the first two rounds of shots). We have been healing her gut with this diet, and have seen gastrointestinal improvements and behavioral improvements. You can heal your child! Many have.
This woman healed her children and made a very informative site.
http://www.danasview.net/

[Village Mama]

A bummer... but another chiming in for the possibility of a dietary change helping. I suffered with really terrible anxiety all through childhood ( undiagnosed aspie) and when I cut out refined sugar( organic is fine for some reason?) and then gluten and casien, my anxiety disappeared completely. No joke, I told my husband that I felt deadened because I wasn't used to the feeling of living without adrenaline coursing through my body constantly. My poor adrenals! I had cut the gluten out for myself to try to help some health issues I was having, but since I did all of the cooking the kids werent getting any either. AS behaviors just did a complete flip for us. No cure by any means, but functional to the outside world, and a much happier household!
I completely understand the cost issue. I truly do. We have been on an income below the poverty line for the past 8 years or so. My priority above all has been to groceries and good nutrition( we changed our lifestyle to take advantage of free outdoor entertainment.... bike riding, hiking, foraging, swimming outdoors). We grind our own flours on a 100 year old hand mill, bake everything ourselves, don't eat out, preserve a ton of stuff ourselves when things are in season. We never used any supplements other than a daily allergy free multi. It is a lot of work but it CAN be done. It has to be done fully though and I understand that it is too much for some people. The diet changes also don't help everyone, which can feel like a huge bunch of work and money for nothing. The changes some see though, are nothing short of miraculous... completely worth a try in my opinion.

[joensally]

Up thread I supported trying meds. I should have also suggested diet and supps as PPs have done.

I understand that money is an issue, but many supps are not that expensive when you realize that after the up-front cost you have weeks' supply. We notice a difference when DS is taking his supps.

All that said, your circumstances seem extraordinarily challenging, and you have the added time and financial pressure of another baby on the way.

One approach would be to use a multi-pronged strategy - you could try meds (I don't know about prozac - I really think this needs to be guided by a doc well versed in meds who also i sn't a known over-prescriber), while also trying diet and supps. From what you describe, the meds might actually help you get your son to a place where he's open enough to try expanding his diet. When people are anxious (whether because of GAD, sensory issues, ASD or what have you), they can end up being in a constant state of rigid thinking and fight-or-flight mode which doesn't allow them to see that there are options - it's just ongoing panic. If you can treat the anxious, rigid thinking so that he has room to breathe and think, you can then address some of these issues. Then you could try removing the meds and seeing if he can maintain when applying his new skills and with some improved ability to assess his options, while also having the support of supps and improved diet.

[buttercup784ever]

^^ I agree. Some people make it sound like an all-or-nothing deal, but really IMO if the symptoms of the anxiety are under control, and your child sees what life can be like without being out of control all the time, he will be more likely to try things like dietary changes.

For us, we only use the Focalin if he's going to school or if he asks to take it because he has something going on that day that he needs to concentrate on. The rest of the time we try to get him to focus without the meds and teach him some techniques so that he's not on them forever.

You can't do that with a drug like Prozac, but my neighbor's son is autistic with lots of anxiety issues, and she has a prescription for low dose valium for him. That would be something you could give "as needed". I know it makes me feel better to have some control over when and how we use the medicine instead of just taking it every day.