As this thread spirals further and further out of control I have refrained from posting. I made myself a big cup of yummy coffee and some cinnamon/sugar toast to pacify me and keep me calm as I type.
Mindyleigh- What a wonderful thing you did for your family. Congrats on the courage to go against the establishment. 80% of all cases of twins are both head down by 37 weeks to my knowledge. A lovely pregnancy "model" came to one of my classes to help with palpation and that is the number she gave me. (She had two twins with heads down, flexed heads in perfect position for a vaginal birth which she did have. She scrapped her homebirth based on low hemoglobin levels and had a natural birth in the hospital.)
There are so many issues here to respond to. Would abortion have been better in this case? It could very well be. I am pro life to be sure, but I think it is TOTALLY counterproductive to talk about abortion once there are babies who have been born or are close to birth- regardless of the outcomes. I had to make a decision to have my daughter. It is why she is a planned baby from an unplanned pregnancy. It is very difficult for me to think of her in terms of a fetus who could have been aborted. My spiritual beliefs include a belief that her sprit is that of a m/c I had a few months before I was pg with dd, and if I'd aborted when in pregnancy with dd, I do believe she'd be waiting for me to be ready to have her again. Anyway, I'm getting off track to the real issue. To say that an abortion would have been better just sounds hurtful at this point and isn't productive at all.
As far as forced sterilization goes, there is a reason we cannot set that precedent in this country. There are women on these boards who do not use birth control, who have lots and lots of babies and use questionable parenting techniques. Whether they be homebirth, not vaccinating, family bedding or spanking-- yes some moms here spank- there are a LOT of people who would take away their reproductive rights if they could. There are people who would ban me from having more children because of my radical stance on parenting. There isn't a black and white in this issue, so I think we can all agree that sterilization by force or coersion is a very dangerous thing. btw, I have read that it is common in this country to sterilize illegal immigrants during c/s, and that it is super common for OBs to do tubal ligation on unconscious women in 3rd world countries. I'm thinking the book is Women as Wombs, not sure though.
Greaseball ITA about OBs. It is so common to see women suing for malpractice of an OB when they don't have a c/s and have a bad outcome, but no one really talks about the cycle of interventions leading to that crisis do we see mass malpractice suits based on unnecessary episiotomy, an OB who refuses to turn the pitocin off leading to a c/s for fear of rupture despite healthy contrax when the pit is off, OBs not explaining double vs. single layer suturing, brachial plexus injury when an OB pulls the baby out of the c/s incision by it's head, induction for macrosomia that leads to the premature birth of a 4 pound baby, the list goes on. It isn't okay to sue for unnecessary c/s because that is an acceptable way to birth, as long as the baby turned out okay we have no right to be angry that our empowering birth was taken away, that our reproductive organs have been gravely injured. Bottom line, c/s puts mother and baby at a greater risk of death. It shouldn't be done without good reason. When it is done without good reason, or based on unnecessary interventions, we should be outraged. But the baby turned out okay, right?
FTR, many studies show homebirth is safer than hospital birth. I personally think hospital birth is risky if you are not aware and empowered in your own healthcare. If you are high risk and have looked at other venues for birth and none are safe for your condition, then the hospital is the right place for you. Just walking into a hospital expecting good care, expecting the OB to "take care of everything" is folly and risky, IMO. OBs are trained for high risk birth and that's al they should attend, IMO. They have a bad habit of messing with what nature has already made perfect. But I'm majorly digressing.
Back to the main point of the thread, MR and her actions. MR is a mentally ill woman. I cannot hold her to the standard I hold everyone else in terms of decision making. I feel a lot of compassion for her because of her circumstance and choices. Someday, my dd may decide to have children. I know that if she has a twin pregnancy she will take incredible care of herself, and find a way to have a vaginal birth, even if it is the vaginal birth of one twin and the c/s of the second twin. She will be healthy, empowered, supported and loved, just as she has been since her conception. If she is confronted with a situtaion where c/s is the only possible way to save one or both of her babies, I'm confident she will have an empowered cesarean. The circumstances in her life leading up to that make it unlikely that she would be in that position.
What if my dd had been born to a "retarded" (whatever that means) woman, and was adopted by me so that I could love her and support her and guide her in life? Most likely a similar outcome. What if she was left to rot in foster care where she developed mental illness and was not treated, was raised by people hwo didn't love her and was thrust out onto the street at 18 with mental illness and drug addiction to fend for herself out in the wide world? Definitely not the same outcome, more like the outcome of MR. OTF, what if your son didn't have you to raise him? When hegrew up if he made terrible decisions that hurt or killed others, even children? When it is put into that context, does it feel different? Is it easier to feel compassion for her?
The way I see it, MR's spirit could have been born to me or anyone else here. She was born into the life she has. I feel deep sorrow for her and her babies, and everyone in her life.