Woman charged with murder after refusing C-section - Page 18

[Dragonfly]

The difference with regards to the law is pre-viability vs. post-viability. It's tricky, because no one really knows exactly when a baby is viable (with the help of technology) outside the womb, which probably explains the discrepancy of a few weeks from state to state.

[Dragonfly]

And busybusymomma - the law doesn't say that it's illegal after 20 weeks to refuse medical treatment that may or may not save the baby's life. It says that the baby's life can only be terminated to preserve the health or life of the mother.

Here, they're trying to bring in the former, in a sense. But, IMO, there is absolutely nothing typical about this case, and I have a hard time seeing it serve as future precedent for the average woman.

[Peppamint]

Originally posted by Dragonfly
And busybusymomma - the law doesn't say that it's illegal after 20 weeks to refuse medical treatment that may or may not save the baby's life. It says that the baby's life can only be terminated to preserve the health or life of the mother

Then why the hell is she being charged with murder if she didn't break a law?

[kama'aina mama]

Rowlands is scheduled to be in court tommorow. (To enter a plea, perhaps?)

[Mamid]

Because the Powers That Be want to make an example of her so no other (drug addicted) woman pulls the same thing - Daring to have a mind of her own when the know it all doctors decide that she should do what they have decreed.

[wombat]

Here's a very eloquent, well thought out argument about the implications of this case from a law professor.

Crying murder when C-section refused
Disturbing implications of a Utah prosecution
http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/03/19/co...ion/index.html

[CraftyMommaOf2]

OK, haven't read all the posts yet...and this is probably gonna make some of you REALLY mad, but... I don't care if they had to take my leg off to save my baby...DO IT. We didn't think we could have kids...took over 5 years to get pregnant with our first. I just can't see not being willing to do anything to save your baby. Luckily I was able to go natural with DS. Plus there's the fact that the other baby had cocaine and alcohol in it's system. Personally, I believe that anyone that would do either of those things while pregnant didn't want to baby/ies to begin with. And she put the other up for adoption, which REALLY makes me think she didn't want them. I think she needs some serious psyche help. There has to be something going on there.
Commence to throwing the rotten food....it's ok.

[Breathless Wonder]

I just can't see not being willing to do anything to save your baby.

You know, sometimes the best way to protect or save your baby is to go AMA. Maybe read some of the birth stories here about interventions that threatened or damaged the lives and health of the children and/or mothers in question?

[Mamid]

Or watch Maternity Ward some night.

The last one I saw, mom A had an inducted vbac that turned to a section.
Mom B had an epidural and an induction
Mom C had a cerclage and when it was taken out, she was immediately at 4cm.

But what I really liked was Mom D 19yo going completely natural. What I didn't like was the nurse saying that she has to be more creative with those moms and therefore work harder than those with epidurals...

Home birth... unassisted. Oh yeah. that's for me.

[CraftyMommaOf2]

I feel so much pain for those mamas that have had all these horrible things happen during pregnancy/birth. I had a really hard time carrying DS. I would have lost him if not for "medical intervention". I went into early labor and it was able to be stopped/slowed down enough to let DS have more time to develop. (32 wks labor started and had him 10 days before EDD) My ob was a fantastic man. The hospital here is wonderful. But, I live in a small, VERY crunchy friendly town. From my experience, my docs much prefer you to go the most natural route possible. My ob and nurses were TOTALLY supportive of me going natural with a very big baby. They even offered extra assistance to DH in making me comfortable. They asked ONE time if I wanted an epidural, told them no I wanted a natural birth, and they smiled at me (non-condiscendingly) and patted my leg and asked if I wanted anything to drink. I guess I am just in the right place. This will be my last child...it's just too hard on my bod. So I'm glad that I will be having this babe here, too. My heart is with you, mamas.
But I cannot support this woman. The drugs, alcohol and smoking (mainly the drugs and alcohol) tell me in my heart that she couldn't have cared less about her babies. Do we know what kind of prenatal care she was giving them? Other than coke?

PS-I just want to say that even if I don't agree with you, I still TOTALLY respect your opinions/views. I hope you can mine. Peace to you my dear mamas.

[Greaseball]

T
My biopsychology textbook claims that cigarettes are more dangerous to fetuses than cocaine.

This doesn't mean cocaine use is OK...it means cigarette use is very bad!

[kama'aina mama]

I don't believe we know much of anything about what prenatal care she had. Nor do we know anything more than that those who are prosecuting her allege she used cocaine.

[Dragonfly]

Originally posted by busybusymomma
Then why the hell is she being charged with murder if she didn't break a law?

I don't know. The law in Utah as it stands now is very protective of the fetus. From reading it, it looks like they've even legislated abortion pre-viability but left a fallback provision for when it is ruled unconstitutional. Very odd. I think the prosecutors see this as a natural extension of the law - depraved indifference lead to the death of a child whose rights are already protected by the state. That's the only thing I can figure, anyway.

[leavesarebrown]

So what happened when she appeared in court?

[kama'aina mama]

Not much. The case was reassigned to a different judge since the first one is retiring. New judge was hearinga few motions and laying down the rules in his court, re: contact with the media, etc...

[Peppamint]

Originally posted by Dragonfly
I don't know. The law in Utah as it stands now is very protective of the fetus. From reading it, it looks like they've even legislated abortion pre-viability but left a fallback provision for when it is ruled unconstitutional. Very odd. I think the prosecutors see this as a natural extension of the law - depraved indifference lead to the death of a child whose rights are already protected by the state. That's the only thing I can figure, anyway.

A thought occurred to me: if a woman is being abused by her dh/so/bf and she miscarries or the baby is born stillborn, is she prosecuted for murder? If they are going prosecute a woman because her baby dies of "indifference"... well, that could cover a whole lot of things, couldn't it?

[leavesarebrown]

Murder Charge Dropped in Plea

Melissa plead guilty to two counts of child endangerment and admitted to using cocaine near the end of her pregnancy, but not intending to kill the babies. She will undergo a drug treatment program as part of her sentance. She still maintains that she was not informed that she needed surgery immediately to save the life of the twin who died. I can believe that.