Teaching letters--Waldorf or WTM or other?

[Holiztic]

Oh I am so torn! We have been very Waldorf in DS' first 3 years. It was so easy for us then--I had no qualms about avoiding electronic media or holding off an anything at all academic, and we're very into ritual and rhythm.

But the crossroad I have long been expecting is here--DS is newly 3 and is gifted (as well as we can tell). He's doing math at kindergarten level (no, not yet with any actual teaching or program, just as part of daily life) and he's starting to ask a lot about letters, written words, and even picking up a few sight words.

There is no way we'll be able to hold him off on learning these things until he's 6 (or even 4!) This is where I start to feel Waldorf is right for the average child, and needs to be taken loosely for the gifted child.

So we have RightStart A on its way that we'll do very informally and as slowly as seems natural (i.e. as long as he's still having fun with a concept we'll keep playing with it).

But then I thought about letters.

I have two very opposite ideas, and I value both of them!

Waldorf believes a child should really experience the letters through drawing a K that looks like a king, doing stories about the king, etc.

The Well Trained Mind makes a point that if a child has so many in-betweens when trying to learn letters it becomes about the in-betweens and complicates the whole connection. So when a child sees "K" they see the king, they think of the stories, etc. and that is cluttering and confusing. This kind of makes sense to me.

I see the beauty and holism of the Waldorf way, but I see the value of teaching letters as what they are--symbols for a sound. When my new reader (someday) is trying to read the word marker, I don't see any value in him imagining a king in the middle of the word or thinking about king so-and-so doing such-and-such.

I would be more than happy to have the Waldorfers try to convince of why I should do it the Waldorf way (but no flaming on our timing please, I am trying to hold off and go as gently as I can, believe me!!) AND I would also be happy to hear others' views on the WTM ideas or any other thoughts on teaching letters/letter sounds.

Thanks!

[tommynomad]

As a curious bystander eager to learn more:

1. Since we all end up reading and writing anyway, why the stress about how?
2. Alphabet & basic arithmetic at 3yo is gifted? Isn't that pretty much when it hits for every kid? The two year old who lives next door knows that if I have 3 cookies, and I give her one & eat one myself, there's one left over somewhere.

Your instincts--keep it informal and geared toward your child's interests--sound a lot more sensible to me than adhering to a specific philosophy. I think Waldorf is a great perspective on learning. Shenomad and I are only considering moving to cities with Waldorf schools once Puck is school age. But if it doesn't suit him, it goes out the window, and is of no more value to us than any other good--but inapplicable--idea.

[Holiztic]

Originally Posted by tommynomad

As a curious bystander eager to learn more:

1. Since we all end up reading and writing anyway, why the stress about how?
2. Alphabet & basic arithmetic at 3yo is gifted? Isn't that pretty much when it hits for every kid? The two year old who lives next door knows that if I have 3 cookies, and I give her one & eat one myself, there's one left over somewhere.

Your instincts--keep it informal and geared toward your child's interests--sound a lot more sensible to me than adhering to a specific philosophy. I think Waldorf is a great perspective on learning. Shenomad and I are only considering moving to cities with Waldorf schools once Puck is school age. But if it doesn't suit him, it goes out the window, and is of no more value to us than any other good--but inapplicable--idea.

Still deciding about #1, thus my question!

As for #2--learning the alphabet at 3 is quite average for the average child. My DS, however, doesn't do TV/video or computer (which is laden with alphabet learning--a la Sesame Street) and we do not have any alphabet toys or books whose obvious goal is letter recognition nor have we pointed out letters to DS. He's starting to point to any one of the 100+ words per page in Pooh and ask what it says and ask what the letters are and then he remembers the letters/words but without the phonics lesson--or any lesson, method, practice, etc. (thus this question!). Not necessarily gifted, but simply how it is happening and why I am asking about 'teaching' letters, since I prefer he doesn't learn to sight read.

Doing basic arithmetic in one's head at 2 (when DS started) without anything to count or without even counting is most definitely a sign of giftedness.

My post was not asking if DS is gifted, so I won't go into the many reasons we have to believe he is (nor the fact that the label means very little to me, other than being an easy way to convey why we are looking at teaching letters at 3 despite being Waldorf-inspired).

[Ravin]

You can always take a middle ground approach. She was a bit older (but also a good deal more "average"), but my DD really enjoyed Hooked on Phonics PreK. We got it free from the library, and it's chock full of games and different manipulatives for learning the letters and their sounds.

You might consider letting your DS start exploring the computer AND his letters with www.starfall.com .

Learning to recognize the letters when they begin a word is often easiest for a young child, hence the association with words that begin with that letter.

So why not use some of both? Do a letter of the week (there are some great themed programs free online with printables, etc.), and let him both absorb them through waldorfy activities and learn to associate them with their sounds. "This is K. It says "k (sound)". It starts words like "King" and "Kite". You can make a kite with a K on it, or draw K with a king's crown, or whatever, but the connection isn't with "a king", it's with "k" at the beginning of words he knows. Recognizing the sound somewhere other than the beginning can come later...unless he starts doing it himself, of course.

Also, Waldorf isn't against kids learning stuff early, from what I understand. More against TEACHING them stuff early. If they're advanced, great, let them play around with it. But keep it relaxed and let him take the lead until he's older, yk?

[chrissy]

Originally Posted by Ravin

Also, Waldorf isn't against kids learning stuff early, from what I understand. More against TEACHING them stuff early. If they're advanced, great, let them play around with it. But keep it relaxed and let him take the lead until he's older, yk?

This.

Were I in your shoes and interested in Waldorf as an educational philosophy, I would ditch any programs and just have fun with your kid being a kid. I'd garden and bake and do lots of art. If your kid wants to talk about numbers or letters, I wouldn't freak out. I'd follow his lead and do it in a gentle, non-schooly way. A 3yo (gifted or not) is not going to ask for curriculum, and, even if I wasn't interested in Waldorf, I wouldn't use curriculum with a 3yo.

[Stephenie]

What is the point in trying to tell someone their child who you don't know isn't gifted?

OP I've had similar issues with my possibly gifted 3 yo.
He started asking about letters at 20 months. So I told him what they were. We kept reading a ton of books. A few weeks before he tuned two he asked me to show him how to read. I was so torn. At this point he knew all the letters and their sounds. I held off on showing him anything because I felt like he was too young. He picked up more and more on his own and at three he is sounding out words and knows several sight words. I let him play on starfall.com. I read a lot with him. When I taught him letters it was just simple... write the letter, say the sound. He found it fun. There are fun letter teaching games on starfall, by the time we found that he already knew them. but had fun playing with it.
I totally get what you're saying about educational methodss not really working specifically for the gifted child, you s try cross posting in the gifted forum. I've read prior threads there about Waldorf not working well for the gifted child. We're trying not to hold too tight to any philosophy... just follow his lead and take what works from different places.

Good luck.

[craft_media_hero]

I think there is a middle ground you will be able to follow.

We hybridized a lot of Waldorf ideas for my 6yo last year and it all worked quite well. I am hopelessly eclectic and couldn't stick to one method even if I wanted to do so. I just follow my daughter's lead and pay attention to any needs that I see she has and try to address them in the most effective way for her learning style and personality.

I think that you've gotten some good advice above about continuing to hold off and just have fun with your little guy.

If you think he's ready to really "meet" the letters, why not get a nice wooden alphabet puzzle and just have it available for exploration? Then it's not like you're keeping it from him if he's hungry for letter learning, but you're not leading him through a step-by-step curriculum either. Plus you'll get more of a feel for if he's really voracious to start the learning to read process or if he's just curious because he is seeing these things as different from the Waldorf environment that he's so far been exposed to.

I'd say just take it easy. Even gifted 3yos don't need instruction. That's one thing I agree with about Waldorf---IMO kids really don't need a "program" until 6/7yo, just lots of life learning opportunities and natural exposure as it occurs in their environment.

[Holiztic]

Originally Posted by chrissy

This.

Were I in your shoes and interested in Waldorf as an educational philosophy, I would ditch any programs and just have fun with your kid being a kid. I'd garden and bake and do lots of art. If your kid wants to talk about numbers or letters, I wouldn't freak out. I'd follow his lead and do it in a gentle, non-schooly way. A 3yo (gifted or not) is not going to ask for curriculum, and, even if I wasn't interested in Waldorf, I wouldn't use curriculum with a 3yo.

Anything I would do with a 3/4 yo (of any ability) would be very natural and non-schooly. Everything is a program to some degree. Even baking and gardening is a program of sorts! But in terms of worksheets and time schedules and such--that's not what I'm talking about at this age.

Playing with an alphabet puzzle and seeing what questions he has is more in line with the "teaching" that I am so conflicted about doing. I think it is a good compromise, though craft hero, thank you! But even that goes against the Waldorf belief that they should form the letters themselves before spending time looking at and memorizing already formed/written letters.

As far as the math program, DS is really exhausting my ability to come up with math games on the fly--he loves it (and does beg for math problems, BTW). But with RightStart, I am going to look at it at night and then, whenever it seems natural and fun (even if only once a week, or less) we'll do some from me (not from the books) as a game. It will look much more organic and child-led than if we were doing 40 minutes of math curriculum every morning, with a the goal of being done in a certain timeframe.

I am an idealogue, BTW, and do always feel the need to subscribe to a certain way of thinking. I am working on breaking through that need, and have come a very long way. But I'll always feel uncomfortable with "just doing" something on the fly without a belief system, pedagogy, etc (even if it is my own) behind it!

Thanks for the thoughts everyone--you are giving me a lot to work with!

[calynde]

My son (7 now) was also very interested in the alphabet at 3 (Waldorf family, very low media etc). My mom sent him one of the above mentioned wooden alphabet puzzles around that time, he was super interested and asked what they were, and he memorized them. She also sent a CD with typical children's songs and the ABC song was on it, so he learned that. Once he learned them, he pretty much left it alone for some reason. He was already way into books at that age, I just kept getting him beautiful books, and I kept reading to him a lot, as he always asked for that. He was reading fluently and unassisted by 5 with no "phonics" or word families or anything. I don't know how it happened, he just wanted to! And it was a beautiful thing to see unfold.

So we homeschool now with Waldorf and he was 6 going on 7 when we started 1st grade (following both Waldorf and our local school district timeline). Despite him reading book after book independently, I still did the alphabet/fairy tale block with him and we both LOVED it! I in no way approached it as introducing letters though. We focused on the depth and richness of the tales (there is a lot of beautiful language in those, folks ) and then we colored the letter/picture into the book...k as a king or whatever. He didn't see the letter k only in terms of a king, but he liked the challenge of trying to turn that letter into something...fun! Art! We enhanced our letter/story lessons with a family friday night poetry night. I found poems where the letter in question featured prominently, and we wrote some of our own, then performed them on a "stage" in our living room. We dressed up and made homemade pizza and had loads of fun with the language of the letters.

There is no end to how one can creatively move the content of the Waldorf curriculum up or down to meet the academic level of the individual child. The claim is that it's the soul content of the lessons that is important to the various stages of childhood development, and *that* is what shouldn't be skipped ahead or rushed. Adapting the academics surrounding the grades content should absolutely be done if needed!

Here's a good blog post. She has more if you feel like searching around her site:

http://theparentingpassageway.com/20...or-excellence/

It's most important I think to follow your mama instincts. Which method speaks most to you? Can you listen to your heart as well as your brain? What is it saying? I'm sure your little one will probably lead you to exactly what he needs. And you can always change things as needed.

hope this helps!

[Holiztic]

Originally Posted by calynde

My son (7 now) was also very interested in the alphabet at 3 (Waldorf family, very low media etc). My mom sent him one of the above mentioned wooden alphabet puzzles around that time, he was super interested and asked what they were, and he memorized them. She also sent a CD with typical children's songs and the ABC song was on it, so he learned that. Once he learned them, he pretty much left it alone for some reason. He was already way into books at that age, I just kept getting him beautiful books, and I kept reading to him a lot, as he always asked for that. He was reading fluently and unassisted by 5 with no "phonics" or word families or anything. I don't know how it happened, he just wanted to! And it was a beautiful thing to see unfold.

So we homeschool now with Waldorf and he was 6 going on 7 when we started 1st grade (following both Waldorf and our local school district timeline). Despite him reading book after book independently, I still did the alphabet/fairy tale block with him and we both LOVED it! I in no way approached it as introducing letters though. We focused on the depth and richness of the tales (there is a lot of beautiful language in those, folks ) and then we colored the letter/picture into the book...k as a king or whatever. He didn't see the letter k only in terms of a king, but he liked the challenge of trying to turn that letter into something...fun! Art! We enhanced our letter/story lessons with a family friday night poetry night. I found poems where the letter in question featured prominently, and we wrote some of our own, then performed them on a "stage" in our living room. We dressed up and made homemade pizza and had loads of fun with the language of the letters.

There is no end to how one can creatively move the content of the Waldorf curriculum up or down to meet the academic level of the individual child. The claim is that it's the soul content of the lessons that is important to the various stages of childhood development, and *that* is what shouldn't be skipped ahead or rushed. Adapting the academics surrounding the grades content should absolutely be done if needed!

Here's a good blog post. She has more if you feel like searching around her site:

http://theparentingpassageway.com/20...or-excellence/

It's most important I think to follow your mama instincts. Which method speaks most to you? Can you listen to your heart as well as your brain? What is it saying? I'm sure your little one will probably lead you to exactly what he needs. And you can always change things as needed.

hope this helps!

Such a nice and helpful post! Thank you.

I think allowing him some access to a few materials is the way we are going to go. There is certainly the possibility that he'll just take them for what they are worth and not start a deliberate path to reading in the next year or so--and I welcome that possibility!

Also great point about doing the Waldorf activities for the beauty of them, not necessarily for teaching letters for the first time!