interesting study from the uk on disposables vs cloth

[lapis]

http://publications.environment-agen...08BOIR-e-e.pdf

[alfabetsoup]

Is that the one that says that cloth diapers use just as many resources as disposables? The study that assumes that everyone washes their nappies at 90c, tumble dries them and then IRONS them? The one that doesn't look at the waste created during the manufacturing process of disposables? The one that doesn't take into account the fact that many cloth nappies are used on more than one child? The one commisioned by Pampers?

Or is it some new study?

[rlmueller]

I went straight to the conclusion

No ironing on this one and it doesn't look the same as the pampers one.

Conclusion is stated in carbon weight in which disposibles won out on page 31, but said reusable nappies would win out if:

-energy efficient appliances used
-fuller loads used
-line dry when possible
-reusing them for multiple children
-washing below 60 degress celcius (I don't know what that is in F).

[lapis]

I've heard about (but not read) the pampers one and I didn't think this was it... but if it is please let me know. (and if it isn't could someone post a link, i'm having a hard time finding it?)

I realize that this is a controversial subject but I'd love to hear people's thoughts for or counter this study. Or anything else related. I really am interested in this topic and didn't mean to be inflammatory at all.

I'm not interested in attacking anyone for their diaper choices and although I've made up my mind about eventually using cloth, I am still interested in learning about a variety of view points, study results and personal experiences to make our final decisions about how we want to ultimately cloth diaper.

I also think that this study is only about one aspect of cloth diapering and thus in only one piece of the puzzle. and I really did find it interesting.

[alegna]

I think the energy aspect is only one factor. To me, it's just as big of a deal to leave a mountain of plastic bombs of waste in the landfill for every child.

-Angela

[Galatea]

And then there's the fact that cloth is healthier for the baby and leaks much less than sposies.

[aikigypsy]

This looks much more thorough and balanced than the old (pampers-sponsored?) study, but I didn't have the time or mental energy to read it carefully, so I just skimmed.

One thing that people should keep in mind is that common practice and recommendations for number of diapers/day is a lot higher in the US than in the UK and Ireland. After the newborn stage, typical use there is 4-5 nappies/day, where in the US I think it's about double that, and I use a lot more. This changes the numbers considerably. It's probably better to look at the cost per diaper change and work from there, although I agree that cloth diaperers generally change the baby more often than those using disposables.

Personally, I think it's gross to have a kid sitting around in a wet/dirty diaper more than absolutely necessary. EC hasn't worked out to early toilet training for us (DD is 2.5 and only about 90% on daytime pees and I don't even try for nights anymore, but 100% for poo since 18 months, and since about 6 months if you don't count teething episodes (which there were a lot of)). Anyway, if you're changing diapers more frequently, the numbers definitely don't stack up the same way. Further, UK washing machines heat the water for the wash in the machine itself, whereas most US washing machines use hot water from the house's tank. The UK hot water systems are probably more efficient, but this study doesn't address that difference, because they're not looking at the US.

Basically, this study looks at a diaper-use scenario which doesn't fit the way I diapered my first kid, and probably won't fit the way I diaper baby #2. I am convinced that for us, re-useables are better health-wise and for the environment.

[lapis]

Thanks everyone...

and I wish there were some more comprehensive studies looking at other aspects of cloth diapering as I agree that energy is only one aspect...

[lalemma]

I like things like this. I'm not a huge fan of people firmly insisting things like "Oh, cloth diapers are SO MUCH BETTER" without much evidence. If something is true, it can stand up to any scrutiny you care to throw at it, right?

One thing I've repeatedly wondered is about the regional impact of diapering choices. Especially if you wash in a top loading machine (as my family does at home!) the water use is pretty hefty. In an arid region, that could be a big resource drain, and not necessarily a better choice for the environment than careful use of compostable disposables.

Line-drying vs. dryer-drying is a good point: in our climate, line-drying is possible for flats and prefolds (the latter only on a sunny day) but fitteds just don't ever get dry. So I've wondered about how eco-friendly our fitteds really are, even though they make up the bulk of our stash and have saved dozens and dozens of disposables from heading to the landfill.

Another thing I wonder about is the sustainability of the textiles used in diaper-making. Hemp or sustainably-grown cotton seem like the most envirofriendly fibers, to me. I am unsure about the math when it comes to bamboo, the many synthetics used in diaper manufacturing, PUL, etc. Textile manufacturing in general tends to be really hard on the environment.

As pointed out, the more babies a diaper can serve, the more sustainable it becomes. But there's that odd collectors-mania thing that can happen to CDing people ("I must have this 30-dollar fitted diaper that just stocked today!") - which doesn't seem that sustainable to begin with, plus so many of the wonderful, convenient modern diapers have elastic (and Velcro), which is unlikely to hold up for more than a few years of use.

I suspect that the most sustainable choice is to diaper exclusively with organic cotton/hemp flats (or prefolds, if your climate allows), line-dried, under wool covers, and then to use those diapers for several more babies in your community. I don't know about anybody else, but my family does not live up to such a lofty ideal! So I continue to think about the choices we make as a household, and I hope to adjust as new information comes in. I figure we're all doing the best we can!

(Of course, to really save resources, we could all EC exclusively from birth - another lofty ideal my family doesn't get anywhere close to. Our kid is lucky if he gets a pottytunity a day, honestly.)

[ExuberantDaffodil]

My husband and I were talking about cloth diapering last night, and we both said the whole argument about washing cloth diapers is just as bad for the environment as disposables doesn't make any sense to us at all. For one, our power bill hasn't gone up at all since starting cloth diapering 7 months ago. Another thing is, the water from our washing machine (and the rest of our house) goes to a treatment facility here in town, so it is repurposed. Last, no one, be it a scientist or whatnot, can tell me that something we reuse over and over again is the same as something I use once and then throw away. or that something made of fabric is the same as something made of plastic.

I love how my husband and I are nerdy enough to stand around talking about cloth diapering

[rlmueller]

Originally Posted by lalemma

I suspect that the most sustainable choice is to diaper exclusively with organic cotton/hemp flats (or prefolds, if your climate allows), line-dried, under wool covers, and then to use those diapers for several more babies in your community.

Actually, it has clothed others in the community as I make them out of receiving blankets, used prefolds, sweaters, skirts, coats, jackets (cause I can't afford the wool stuff ). And I'll sell those hoping someone will sell them again until they are bare threads.

However, I have not factored in the metal and plastic waste produced by my purchasing a second hand sewing machine as well as the energy used to produce it, nor the energy used to print the cash that I used to buy it with or the carbon my car produced getting to and from the sellers house.

There are things all the studies in the world just can't account for.

[lalemma]

Absolutely - upcycled diapers made using materials diverted from the waste stream are probably the hands-down way to go!

[JTA Mom]

Well, lets also not forget all the transportation that goes on in shipping disposables, driving to the store & back to get them, the packaging materials, etc.

With cloth, you have a much less involved transportation system with a lot less waste.

Ami

[kittywitty]

Originally Posted by ExuberantDaffodil

My husband and I were talking about cloth diapering last night, and we both said the whole argument about washing cloth diapers is just as bad for the environment as disposables doesn't make any sense to us at all. For one, our power bill hasn't gone up at all since starting cloth diapering 7 months ago. Another thing is, the water from our washing machine (and the rest of our house) goes to a treatment facility here in town, so it is repurposed. Last, no one, be it a scientist or whatnot, can tell me that something we reuse over and over again is the same as something I use once and then throw away. or that something made of fabric is the same as something made of plastic.

I love how my husband and I are nerdy enough to stand around talking about cloth diapering

Amen! I find it frankly hilarious that people insist plastic disposable diapers are somehow better than cloth diapers that keep getting reused. It seems they look at worst case scenarios for cloth and best case for sposies.

[nia82]

I think a more comprehensive study should look into more things than just energy consumption. They also need to look at: resource consumption, distribution consumption (aka trucks driving the sposies to Walmart or the UPS truck delivering my prefolds), the chemicals used to produce the diapers (dioxin, etc but also what is used to weave cotton or mill microfleece) and what kind of waste is produced (not only mountains of plastic, but feces in landfills, toxic chemicals in landfills vs. feces in water that just goes to the water treatment facility just like the wastewater from the toilet).

[aikigypsy]

Originally Posted by nia82

I think a more comprehensive study should look into more things than just energy consumption. They also need to look at: resource consumption, distribution consumption (aka trucks driving the sposies to Walmart or the UPS truck delivering my prefolds), the chemicals used to produce the diapers (dioxin, etc but also what is used to weave cotton or mill microfleece) and what kind of waste is produced (not only mountains of plastic, but feces in landfills, toxic chemicals in landfills vs. feces in water that just goes to the water treatment facility just like the wastewater from the toilet).

I think there was actually a mention of all that in the study. The disposable diapers in it went to an incinerator, which was used to produce electricity. There would still be pollution from them, of course, but I don't remember seeing anything about that.

The convenience factor is a big advantage of cloth diapering for me, too. We never have to run to the store (burning gas, etc.) to buy more. It would cost us about $2 worth of gas to run to the grocery store, and I'm pretty sure that a wash/dry cycle costs less than that.

[kittywitty]

Originally Posted by aikigypsy

I think there was actually a mention of all that in the study. The disposable diapers in it went to an incinerator, which was used to produce electricity. There would still be pollution from them, of course, but I don't remember seeing anything about that.

Places do that? In this state, all the waste is in landfills. It's as close as this state gets to mountains and needing more and more landfills is constantly in the news as we seem to be running out of them... Our electricity is almost all coal, with some nuclear north of here.

[aikigypsy]

Originally Posted by kittywitty

Places do that? In this state, all the waste is in landfills. It's as close as this state gets to mountains and needing more and more landfills is constantly in the news as we seem to be running out of them... Our electricity is almost all coal, with some nuclear north of here.

Yeah, that's one of those UK vs. US differences -- space is a lot more limited there, resulting in smaller average car/house/etc. size and, apparently, different waste disposal systems. I'm in Massachusetts, and I'm pretty sure our garbage goes to an incinerator, too, though.

[lapis]

all good food for thought...

thanks again ladies

[APBTlover]

The question I always have with these studies is... why stop with diapers? It would be ridiculous for someone to come out and say, "Hey now, no need to wash your clothes... it's more environmentally friendly to used disposable plastic clothes!! Look! We can prove it!" It's just mind-boggling. "No, really! Look at all the energy that went into producing that shirt. And all of the water and energy that goes into cleaning it each time you wear it. And holy crap does that dryer waste a lot of power! Definitely, you should use disposable clothes."

Does this just not make sense to anyone else? Now, honestly, we re-wear clothes numerous times at our house (unless we were gardening in them or something), so for us it isn't an exact match-up to diapers, but I know plenty of people who wash all their clothes in hot water and refuse to re-wear anything until it's been washed and tumbled.