"The diseases are coming back thanks to unvaccinated kids." - Page 8

[japonica]

Didn't this study, with the old whole cell P vaccine, show that recently, fully vaccinated kids can be infected and are carrying it around?

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/eid/vol6no5/pdf/srugo.pdf

The whole-cell vaccine for pertussis is protective only against clinical
disease, not against infection (15-17). Therefore, even young, recently vaccinated children may serve as reservoirs and potential transmitters of
infection.

[anechka]

Originally Posted by buttercupmama

I already looked it up after posting my response. You have to keep in mind that nothing Trinidad's government has done is based on any kind of logic. They have an unhealthy obsession with following America in everything it does. This does not generally bode well with the public, but it's seen as 'progress' all the same. Regardless, you never needed an exemption in Trinidad and I'm sure a lot of people, having grown up as I did, don't bother with getting their kids vaccinated. The rate of the diseases has no relevance since that never had anything to do with it.

Your experience is similar to mine. I was born and raised in Siberia and the only vaxes I got when I was a child were DTaP, polio and BCG and that was it. I did not even know what are the MMR, HIB and prevnar until I came to the US. I do not know of anyone in my surrounding back home who for example, had mumps or measles. And I have never came across of "legions of blind and deaf kids" who were supposed to get these conditions as the result of measles. Each virus has its own lifecycle, they come and they go, and then they reapper again, and no amount of vaccines and boosters can break that cycle.

[nicky85]

Here's one you'll never hear about in the media. Mississippi does not allow religious or philosophical exemptions to vaccinations. They have one of the highest rates of coverage in the country. But that doesn't seem to be stopping the pertussis: http://www.msdh.state.ms.us/msdhsite...,5373,279.html

Ashland, Oregon and Boulder, Colorado have large unvaccinated populations and when there's a pertussis outbreak there, the media is all over it. Mississippi with almost all of its grade schoolers vaccinated has an outbreak and you don't hear anything.

[pregnant@40]

Originally Posted by nicky85

Here's one you'll never hear about in the media. Mississippi does not allow religious or philosophical exemptions to vaccinations. They have one of the highest rates of coverage in the country. But that doesn't seem to be stopping the pertussis: http://www.msdh.state.ms.us/msdhsite...,5373,279.html

Ashland, Oregon and Boulder, Colorado have large unvaccinated populations and when there's a pertussis outbreak there, the media is all over it. Mississippi with almost all of its grade schoolers vaccinated has an outbreak and you don't hear anything.

In the Mississippi article you cited, a possible cause listed was waning immunity due to people no longer having protection from vaccines. Adults often do not get booster shots, despite the high immunization rates for kids. However, symptoms in adults/teens are often milder than for kids; the main reason for an adult to get the booster is to protect the surrounding young kids/immunosuppressed during outbreaks like the one you mention.

[treeoflife3]

quick question... a friend of mine SWEARS there was a polio outbreak in delaware... I THINK it was delaware.. does anyone know what she is talking about?

[pregnant@40]

Originally Posted by treeoflife3

quick question... a friend of mine SWEARS there was a polio outbreak in delaware... I THINK it was delaware.. does anyone know what she is talking about?

There were small numbers of cases in the 70's in the Amish community, but I don't know if a case occurred in Delaware. One resource below, though there are others through CDC:
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00050429.htm

[nicky85]

Originally Posted by pregnant@40

In the Mississippi article you cited, a possible cause listed was waning immunity due to people no longer having protection from vaccines. Adults often do not get booster shots, despite the high immunization rates for kids. However, symptoms in adults/teens are often milder than for kids; the main reason for an adult to get the booster is to protect the surrounding young kids/immunosuppressed during outbreaks like the one you mention.

My point is the subject of this forum, the argument that it is unvaccinated children who are bringing the diseases back. If it is the unvaccinated children who are bringing the diseases back, then a state that allows few exemptions like Mississippi should (in theory) not have a pertussis problem. I do understand your argument, but I was addressing a different issue. Perhaps I didn't clarify that strongly enough. I was also pointing out the media bias in covering outbreaks where there are many unvaccinated children and not saying anything about outbreaks in high vaccination rate communities. This also provides some evidence for my argument that pertussis outbreaks are just as likely in vaccinated communities as unvaccinated ones. Thank you for helping me to clarify my arguments!

[nia82]

@ pregant@40: What people are trying to explain is this: Pertussis is a really bad example for herd immunity as it cannot induce such by the very way it is made. It does not create antibodies to pertussis bordatella, the bacterium, but to its toxoid. You can read this in every package insert of the corresponding vaccines. Thus, it does not prevent at all infection nor transmission of the pertussis bacteria, but makes the vaccinated host less susceptible to the toxoids effects (thick mucous, strong coughs that cause the whooping sound). So no, people are not immune at all to pertussis and yes, they still get it and spread it around thinking it's just a cold. Pertussis toxoid vaccines are very different from e.g. the measles vaccine, which actually induces an antibody response to the measles virus, the pathogene itself, and not just a pathogene's toxoid.

[caned & able]

Originally Posted by nicky85

Here's one you'll never hear about in the media. Mississippi does not allow religious or philosophical exemptions to vaccinations. They have one of the highest rates of coverage in the country. But that doesn't seem to be stopping the pertussis: http://www.msdh.state.ms.us/msdhsite...,5373,279.html

Ashland, Oregon and Boulder, Colorado have large unvaccinated populations and when there's a pertussis outbreak there, the media is all over it. Mississippi with almost all of its grade schoolers vaccinated has an outbreak and you don't hear anything.

Excellent post nicky85, and guess what? West Virginia has a whooping cough outbreak also!

http://vaccinenewsdaily.com/news/215...-west-virginia

Two states with virtually 100% vaccination rates, and they too have pertussis outbreaks. How effective is the vaccine? 59%-89%.

[juniper_mama]

What people are trying to explain is this: Pertussis is a really bad example for herd immunity as it cannot induce such by the very way it is made. It does not create antibodies to pertussis bordatella, the bacterium, but to its toxoid. You can read this in every package insert of the corresponding vaccines. Thus, it does not prevent at all infection nor transmission of the pertussis bacteria, but makes the vaccinated host less susceptible to the toxoids effects (thick mucous, strong coughs that cause the whooping sound). So no, people are not immune at all to pertussis and yes, they still get it and spread it around thinking it's just a cold. Pertussis toxoid vaccines are very different from e.g. the measles vaccine, which actually induces an antibody response to the measles virus, the pathogene itself, and not just a pathogene's toxoid.

Very useful summary!