Please help - 6 year old and lying about poop

[CrazyCatLady]

I'm going to really try and condense this. My almost six year old dd has been having a lot of problems with and lying about her pooping lately.

She'll hold in her poop for hours/days and lie about having to go (in the mean time she'll stink really bad). Then she'll poop her pants and deny it for hours. When I finally send her to the bathroom to get clean, she won't do it and then say that she did (she often just shoves our cloth tp into her underwear and considers it done). I always ask her if she wants help getting clean, and she'll almost always say no.

Or she poops in the shower every freaking time (I don't think she can hold it in there) and then will hide it behind the shampoo or under a wash rag. This morning I found so much poop hidden in weird places in there that I almost threw up. I told her that if she has accidents in there it's fine. Just to please tell me asap so I can get it clean. She never tells me.

This is just getting grosser and grosser. I finally got so mad at her tonight that I punished her for the first time ever (put her in bed early with no stories). So she ended up sobbing herself to sleep like I had beaten her or something. And now I'm feeling like a jerk and sobbing myself.

She didn't potty train until four but she is potty trained. She's not sick or anything. Her dad did leave us a month ago and it's gotten worse since.

I've never hit her. I don't yell. I don't humiliate or shame her over this stuff. I've explained over and over that it's ok if she has accidents, but she needs to tell me so I can get it/her clean. And she just wont stop lying about it and hiding her poop in gross places.

When I ask her about it she just gets really quiet or says that she feels shy about it. I don't know what to do anymore. I'm really laid back and until tonight, I've never gotten mad or been upset about anything potty related.

But I want this to end. Am I wrong? Expecting too much? What can I do differently? Does she just need therapy or something maybe?

Any help would be appreciated. I've never had a gd issue before and I'm really lost with this. She's usually a pretty easy kid to raise.

[LynnS6]

It sounds like she might have encopresis - if she does, you probably need to take her to the doctor and work out a plan for this. (Another link.) I don't know that much about it, but I'm pretty sure there are some MDC parents who've dealt with this.

[lookatreestar]

mama that is so hard! i dont have an advice but we are struggling with peeing and hiding it... we also dont punish/shame/yell etc but goodness it does get old everything stinking like pee.

[BreatheMama]

I don’t have too much advice, except I think it has something to do with control. When we don’t feel in control on the inside we tend to try and control our extrinsic environment. A red flag went up when you mentioned her father leaving...she has got to be feeling so much emotion. I would offer an outlet for stress...practice deep breathing, beginner meditation (create a peaceful place and just sit quietly for maybe 1-2 seconds to begin with), outside activities, swim, and kids yoga?
In our area there are lots of awesome child psychologists, this doesn’t have to be long term or with a stigma, just a thought...
I also know this can be a difficult cycle to change.

one more thought, maybe give her more control with other areas, clothing, food choices, plan for the day, sequence of events, without manipulation or coersion.

[BetsyNY]

My son has encopresis.

First, don't make it into an issue with the lying. Don't nag her about it. This is a behavioral problem and it needs to be addressed by a therapist.

When she smells bad, tell her you need to clean her up. And then do it. Don't send her in to do it. Do it as cheerfully as you can, because she's obviously having some embarrassment and shame around it, she knows she's not supposed to be doing this and yet she continues. There may be some kind of compulsion that she can't control.

[fruitfulmomma]

Agree with the pp's that it sounds like encopresis. My oldest kids both had it. It is not a discipline issue. It is a physical issue. Yes, you need to deal with the lying, but she also needs to understand that it is okay that she is having problems and you are going to work on them together. I wish I had learned about it earlier with my kiddos cause it would have saved us all a lot of grief.

I would look into a gluten-free diet for her, as that can cause lots of constipation issues with children who can't digest it properly. Magnesium is a good supplement as well.

Also, you may want to give her a quick shower daily where she can do her business and then you can clean the tub out real well. We found this to be much easier on everyone and it resulted in less accidents.

[Marsupialmom]

Please look into encroprisis. Your describing the behavior many kids with encroprisis have.

http://www.askdrsears.com/html/8/t086200.asp

It isn't a behavioral issue but medical issue.

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Ohmygosh... that is seriously gross!!!! I agree, I'd be beyond annoyed too.

But, it does sound like she physically can't control the poop. She's probably completly tired of dealing with it, and now she's trying the whole "act like it's not happening" route.

You could take her to the doctor and see if he feels any kind of blockage, and maybe he would want to run some tests. If it is encopresis, he'll have you try some kind of stool softeners to clean her out. (that's a fun weekend too)

But, everybody I have known who suffered from encopresis, still had problems even after all the stool softeners. The problem is, it's been such a bad experience that they go right back to holding it again. Also, they don't actually feel it the way we do. It just sneaks up on them.

SO, before tackling the lying, I think I'd look into the bowel problem first, and then deal with the lying if it's still a problem. If you know what you are dealing with, both of you can work together on it. Right now, it probably feels like it's just her problem, and it's embarrassing too.

[FlowerMomma]

My daugher has Celiac disease (autoimune intolerance to Wheat and gluten) and until we figured it out and put her on a gluten free diet she had similar issues with pooping her pants. When she was 3-4 years old I used to find it smeared on the wall in the bathroom and she almost always had major skid marks in her pants and would sometimes refuse to go to the bathroom and then poop her pants and not tell me. She also had alot of other behaivoral problems so I just thought it was a behaivoral thing and I would get really angry with her. When we put her on a comepletly gluten free diet the problem completly resolved. Now, if she is exposed to gluten I usually know because she has skid marks in her undies and she also has an increase in other behaivoral issues and anxiety. Thankfully it doesn't happen very often, but it's very obvious to me now that she just can't control her bowel movement when she has gluten in her system. It's not even that it's loose stool, she just seems to not have any idea she needs to go? I am not saying that your daughter has celiac necessarily (although it is actually very common and often misdiagnosed) but I think that there could very likely be a physical gastro intestonal issue causing this problem. Take a deep breath, I know how hard this is.

[BetsyNY]

But it doesn't sound like the OP's daughter is constipated, which would make this more of a behavioral issue, no?

My son's encopresis is multifaceted--he's constipated (probably) because of his terrible diet, which is caused by his sensory issues. It doesn't sound like your daughter has those kind of issues; this sounds much more related to control and circumstance, so seeing a therapist would probably be the best thing to do.

The PP's suggestions re: showers and whatnot is a good suggestion as well.

[CrazyCatLady]

I'm almost positive that she's not constipated. When she actually goes to the bathroom on her own (50% of the time) her poop is big and healthy looking. She doesn't have the greatest diet though thanks to sensory issues and my influence. So that is something to look into as well. Maybe more fiber or greens or something might help a bit.

I don't mind her going in the shower. I've encouraged it even to get it all over with. But the folding it up in wash rags and hiding it was too much for me.

I'm going to do my very best to be nicer and calmer about it than I was last night. Last night was not my proudest parenting moment. She's had some other issues with lying lately and I think it just all together set me off a bit. She promised today on her own that she'd try and tell me sooner if she has accidents. So we'll see how it goes.

I really think a lot of it has to do with her dad leaving us. I will be looking for a therapist. I've tried taking her to the doctor for this and he said that all looks well with her and her bowels. He also thought it was a behavior issue (though we didn't discuss gluten at all).

The advice here has been great and very reassuring. So thank you all very much.

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The two of you can also find a way for her to fix the accidents herself so she doesn't always have to tell you. Maybe she can just change her undies and put them in the washer herself.

If she's going to roll it up in a rag, have her roll it in a flushable wipe and drop it in the toilet.

At six, she reasonably capable of taking control of this. She might not do a great job at it, but she can try.

[ssh]

Originally Posted by CrazyCatLady

I'm almost positive that she's not constipated. When she actually goes to the bathroom on her own (50% of the time) her poop is big and healthy looking. She doesn't have the greatest diet though thanks to sensory issues and my influence. So that is something to look into as well. Maybe more fiber or greens or something might help a bit.

Increasing her fruit and fluid intake would probably be easier than adding greens. Strawberry frozen fruit bars and fresh berries helped my DD with softening her poop when she was having constipation problems at age 3. Fruit smoothies are good too, but don't add dairy, it can make things worse. Now, at 4.5, I make sure my DD has access to plenty of fruit to avoid having problems. She really likes tomatoes so we keep veggie juice and grape tomatoes along with grapes and berries too. Beans are also great for adding fiber.

The holding and then stinking does sound like encopresis. Also having big poops could mean they are uncomfortable.

[BetsyNY]

Originally Posted by CrazyCatLady

I'm going to do my very best to be nicer and calmer about it than I was last night. Last night was not my proudest parenting moment. She's had some other issues with lying lately and I think it just all together set me off a bit. She promised today on her own that she'd try and tell me sooner if she has accidents. So we'll see how it goes.

Of course you will. I'm sorry if I came across as high and mighty, because Lord knows I've had my moments with the poop thing. It's really hard to deal with, especially when they regress--my son was potty trained and this sent him back into diapers.

I'm just repeating what our GI told us--we had gotten "Everyone Poops" and other such DVDs, books, etc...and she told us we needed to just stop talking about it, as hard as that was, because we'd thought we needed to discuss it...anyway, definitely increase water/juice (pear juice!). Mandarin oranges make my other son EXPLODE.

[CrazyCatLady]

No one came off sounding high and mighty to me. I feel no judgment in this thread.

So after a day at the beach today she just pooped herself on the drive home. My car is gross, she's in the shower, I'm calm but lost.

Her being in the shower is giving me time to count to a thousand before dealing with this. I'll try everything suggested here, because at this rate I'm ready to just put her back in pull ups. I threatened her with that today and she said it sounds great.

Heavy sigh.

[KatWozBlue]

My little sister had problems with pooping after her father left, she would hide it in bags all over the house, not sure how she got it in the bag, but it must have been with her hands and we would find it EVERYWHERE. It drove my mother crazy and my mother who doesn't follow GD made it worse by yelling, threatening, etc. I finally convinced her to send her to a therapist and she did and my little sister found other ways to control her environment such as my mom letting her paint her room some awful color that she loved. the therapist said it was a way to control her environment because she felt out of control with her father leaving (she was 7).

I wish you the best of luck, it took a while for everything to go back to "normal" and give yourself a pat on the back for only losing it once thus far, I mean how gross is poop? It would send me over the edge too!

[francesruben]

I've been having poop problems with DD (3.5 years old) for about 3 months now. It's been very stressful and it's easy to get into a negative frame of mind about it because it is gross and difficult to understand. I'd agree that it sounds like encopresis and it sounds like it's related to control. While I certainly don't have all the answers to this I thought I'd relay some things that have helped us;

keeping her as regular as possible-
try ground flaxseeds, slippery elm, psyllium husk, vitamin c

trying not to talk about it

pull ups, no pressure to use the toilet

and parafin oil (suggested by my dr) which I'm not so happy about

Also, I'm not a big fan of rewards or bribes and I didn't want to withhold anything from DD in return for a poop because I knew she'd feel that as pressure which would only make the whole thing worse. But after she had a big poop the other day (after giving her parafin oil) we had a party, rushed to the corner store to buy candy (we never eat candy, EVER) and put on a cd and danced around the living room. It was a big relief for us to celebrate pooping instead of stressing out about it! She has become far more comfortable talking about it with me since. But we still have a long way to go with this too.

Good luck!!

[Marsupialmom]

Originally Posted by CrazyCatLady

I'm almost positive that she's not constipated. When she actually goes to the bathroom on her own (50% of the time) her poop is big and healthy looking. She doesn't have the greatest diet though thanks to sensory issues and my influence. So that is something to look into as well. Maybe more fiber or greens or something might help a bit.

I don't mind her going in the shower. I've encouraged it even to get it all over with. But the folding it up in wash rags and hiding it was too much for me.

I'm going to do my very best to be nicer and calmer about it than I was last night. Last night was not my proudest parenting moment. She's had some other issues with lying lately and I think it just all together set me off a bit. She promised today on her own that she'd try and tell me sooner if she has accidents. So we'll see how it goes.

I really think a lot of it has to do with her dad leaving us. I will be looking for a therapist. I've tried taking her to the doctor for this and he said that all looks well with her and her bowels. He also thought it was a behavior issue (though we didn't discuss gluten at all).

The advice here has been great and very reassuring. So thank you all very much.

With encroprisis and constipation commonly what happens is that the softer stuff leaks around the harder stuff -- big healthy poop. Is she having skids of different sizes? With Encroprisis an entire bowel movement can "slip" out but it starts with skids- Soft (maybe a little lumpy) but pasty type of poop that just "paints" her bottom and underwear.

[heartmama]

You said her father left a month ago and suddenly she started having accidents.

I'd have a hard time not connecting the two events.

I think this is an instance where talking to a child psychologist could be very, very helpful. The behavior seems so strongly connected to a recent life change. I'm guessing this is her way of coping. This is the only control she feels she has right now. Having a parent leave is such a huge, life changing trauma for a child. It is no surprise she is looking for a way to express those feelings.

Hugs to you both.

[midnightwriter]

Medical issues aside, I would supervise her showers more closely. She is 5. I'd chat with her while she was still there, or even shower with her. I'd be there with a towel and a cuddle when she's done. This way any accidents would be discovered right away, not the next morning, and could be dealt with right away as well. I'd help her clean up, right there and then. Also, if you are there with her, in the bathroom, you might be able to remind her on time to go potty on the toilet. She might welcome it, she might not, but at least you are there, rather than discovering a stinky bathroom the next day.

I agree with the PP who sggested it is related to the stress of her father's leaving. HUGS. This must be a difficult situation for all.