I feel like we'll never find a doctor!

[Mommabean]

UGH I am just so disgusted and ready to throw in the towel...but my kids NEED a doctor (we've not had a steady ped since moving here in the fall of 06)

Well on the advice of friends I made an appointment with a doc in town that is WELL liked, amazing with her patients, and as friends said well versed in asthma and allergies (things we deal with horribly with our oldest).

So I took in the baby today and the doc said ok sinc eyou weren't in the hospital did you get the Hep B shot...I said no because we delay and select vax...to which she closed the folder and said to me "Well if you don't vax on schedule you have to find another doctor, I will NOT put my other patients at risk in that way."

She went on to say that she would do the 2 week appt (which we didn't need we had the screening done with the MW) this was an appointment forme to meet the doc, and get a baseline for T's chart. But I left minus my 40 dollar copay and having to listen to the doc give me the Mexico schpeel (as dh and I call it) ...the well you live in TX now and are so close to Mexico your kids are MORE susceptible to hepatitis B, whooping cough, and many other illness than if you al still lived in Indiana. (Yes we hear this at EVERY doc we have tried to take to the boys too and so far it's 5 docs and counting)

UGH...so now I have one LAST doctor to try that is taking patients (when we moved here there were only 2 doctors taking new patients and they were not happy we delayed either)....praying that they work with me on an alternate schedule....ugh! I'm so sick of this town!!

[Artichokie]

how frustrating. Have you posted in Finding your Tribe? That is how we found both our family doc and our pedi.

[poppan]

So sorry to hear that mama. I was really tired of hearing the schpiel at my old pedi too (but at least they didn't kick us out). I finally changed to a homeopathic pedi (got referred by a non-vaxing friend) and we like her a lot.

Wondering if you might have better luck by calling first and asking if they accept patients who do not vax. That way at least you find that out without paying $40 co-pay. Or, are there DAN doctors in your area?
http://www.autism.com/pro_danlists_us.asp

[Turquesa]

Originally Posted by Mommabean

=

So I took in the baby today and the doc said ok sinc eyou weren't in the hospital did you get the Hep B shot...I said no because we delay and select vax...to which she closed the folder and said to me "Well if you don't vax on schedule you have to find another doctor, I will NOT put my other patients at risk in that way."

At risk? Of Hep B? The disease that is spread through sexual contact and infected needles?

Ah well, she may have a point. You never know when your baby will show up for a Well Baby Visit wielding an infected heroine needle...

Sarcasm aside, have you posted in the Find Your Tribe section? Somebody may be able to recommend a doctor willing to honor your right to self-determination. So sorry you had to go through this.

[heathergirl67]

But if you think about it from the doctor's point of view it makes sense, right?

"My job is to protect and promote the health of my patients and their families. By going against my advice they are purposely putting their health at risk. I cannot support or endorse that. If they don't trust my medical opinion on vaccinations, then why do they trust me on anything? Why don't they take care of every other problem the way they're taking care of their immunization- by themself?"

I'm just imagining here- I haven't actually heard any doctor say that. Just trying to put myself in their shoes and figure out what may lead them to make that decision.

[yarngoddess]

Yep. I hate that garbage as well. We've gone through that in 3 states...I can only imagine Texas My advice is to look for a Family Doctor- or an Osteopathic doctor. They tend to be more selective/no vax friendly.....

[ammiga]

Originally Posted by heathergirl67

But if you think about it from the doctor's point of view it makes sense, right?

"My job is to protect and promote the health of my patients and their families. By going against my advice they are purposely putting their health at risk. I cannot support or endorse that. If they don't trust my medical opinion on vaccinations, then why do they trust me on anything? Why don't they take care of every other problem the way they're taking care of their immunization- by themself?"

I'm just imagining here- I haven't actually heard any doctor say that. Just trying to put myself in their shoes and figure out what may lead them to make that decision.

I have no idea what you do for a living, but I have worked in several fields with clients who come to me for advice. But that's what it is... advice. It isn't a mandate, and they certainly have the right to go home, think about what I've said, and come up with something that works for them and their family. If they don't follow my advice, it doesn't mean they don't respect me or my professional opinion. It means that specific piece of advice wasn't right for them.

I don't understand the mentality that if families don't "trust" their doctors with the single piece of advice on "vaccinate entirely on schedule, regardless of your individual circumstances or leave my practice". Where is any established relationship with that? Where is anything to trust? There is no looking at the family, what is right for them or their child, or any individual advice being dispensed at all.

If that same family came in with a child with reflux, the doctor wouldn't kick them out for not trusting them if they opted to not give the medicine. And if a family came in and opted to not give antibiotics that the doctor recommended, I highly doubt they would be kicked out for endangering all the other patients in the practice. There is something odd and spooky about this whole business with vaccines and the unquestioning faith we are supposed to give them.

To the OP- I agree with checking out FYT. Also, check for family doctors. You will probably have better luck with them, and they will have an easier time referring you to specialists for your kid's asthma (which might be more helpful than a regular doctor).

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by heathergirl67

But if you think about it from the doctor's point of view it makes sense, right?

"My job is to protect and promote the health of my patients and their families. By going against my advice they are purposely putting their health at risk. I cannot support or endorse that. If they don't trust my medical opinion on vaccinations, then why do they trust me on anything? Why don't they take care of every other problem the way they're taking care of their immunization- by themself?"
I'm just imagining here- I haven't actually heard any doctor say that. Just trying to put myself in their shoes and figure out what may lead them to make that decision.

Yes it's called a GOD complex. Any good doctor works WITH parents, not TELLS them what to do and what is best for their family. And any good doctor also recognizes that they don't know everything, many parents are highly educated about certain things and the doctor will be open minded to opinions that may conflict with thier own. I mean have you ever heard of a doctor telling an adult because they didn't follow their reccomendations that they would not treat them any more???

[Emmeline II]

Originally Posted by Mommabean

She went on to say that she would do the 2 week appt (which we didn't need we had the screening done with the MW) this was an appointment forme to meet the doc, and get a baseline for T's chart. But I left minus my 40 dollar copay and having to listen to the doc give me the Mexico schpeel (as dh and I call it) ...the well you live in TX now and are so close to Mexico your kids are MORE susceptible to hepatitis B, whooping cough, and many other illness than if you al still lived in Indiana. (Yes we hear this at EVERY doc we have tried to take to the boys too and so far it's 5 docs and counting)

You could try a family practice Dr. or DO. I'm in San Antonio and drive 30-40 minutes to get to our DO, though my SIL goes down the street to our hospital. I had heard good things about our practice and I wanted THAT one, though I sometimes go to the urgent care down the street.

Before we started at this practice I took ds to a downtown hospital (we were low income at the time and they had a program for that), a doctor on CHIP (I think he would have fired us if we hadn't left due to delayed vax), and a ped (and staff) who did not harass us about non-vax (we no longer vax) and surprisingly no one gave us the "Mexico" speech. If they did, I was prepared to tell them about Mexico's vaccination rate.

[Emmeline II]

Originally Posted by Marnica

I mean have you ever heard of a doctor telling an adult because they didn't follow their recommendations that they would not treat them any more???

Yes, but there is usually a health problem already present. Vaccinations are prophylactic drugs.

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by Emmeline II

Yes, but there is usually a health problem already present. Vaccinations are prophylactic drugs.

Doctor: I reccommend that you get a DTaP booster to protect your new baby.

Me: No Thanks doc

Doctor: Ok then.....

[poppan]

Originally Posted by heathergirl67

But if you think about it from the doctor's point of view it makes sense, right?

"My job is to protect and promote the health of my patients and their families. By going against my advice they are purposely putting their health at risk. I cannot support or endorse that. If they don't trust my medical opinion on vaccinations, then why do they trust me on anything? Why don't they take care of every other problem the way they're taking care of their immunization- by themself?"

I'm just imagining here- I haven't actually heard any doctor say that. Just trying to put myself in their shoes and figure out what may lead them to make that decision.

The OP's doctor came right out and stated exactly the reason why they're getting fired -- it's because the doc "will NOT put my other patients at risk in that way." In her head unvax'd = more likely to carry VPD's = more likely to expose the other patients. Although if we're speculating about what else in going on in the doc's head, my speculation is that informed patients are more difficult and time-consuming patients because they actually want to discuss their treatment and options and come in here with questions that take time and research to answer.

I've gone AMA (against medical advice) in the hospital but other than making me sign forms that it was my decision and I was doing it against their advice and that I therefore cannot sue them for whatever poor outcome results -- I was allowed to stay. Since there is no medical emergency in the case of refusing to vaccinate, I believe the ethical thing for the doctor to do is to help the patient find another doctor but continue to provide care in the meantime to the best of their ability.

[heathergirl67]

Originally Posted by ammiga

I have no idea what you do for a living, but I have worked in several fields with clients who come to me for advice. But that's what it is... advice. It isn't a mandate, and they certainly have the right to go home, think about what I've said, and come up with something that works for them and their family. If they don't follow my advice, it doesn't mean they don't respect me or my professional opinion. It means that specific piece of advice wasn't right for them.

I don't understand the mentality that if families don't "trust" their doctors with the single piece of advice on "vaccinate entirely on schedule, regardless of your individual circumstances or leave my practice". Where is any established relationship with that? Where is anything to trust? There is no looking at the family, what is right for them or their child, or any individual advice being dispensed at all.

If that same family came in with a child with reflux, the doctor wouldn't kick them out for not trusting them if they opted to not give the medicine. And if a family came in and opted to not give antibiotics that the doctor recommended, I highly doubt they would be kicked out for endangering all the other patients in the practice. There is something odd and spooky about this whole business with vaccines and the unquestioning faith we are supposed to give them.

To the OP- I agree with checking out FYT. Also, check for family doctors. You will probably have better luck with them, and they will have an easier time referring you to specialists for your kid's asthma (which might be more helpful than a regular doctor).

That's a good point. I wonder if it's based on the type of thing that happened here in San Diego. When that kid who went to Switzerland came back with measles. He went to his doctor a couple of days later and three of the kids in the waiting room with him went on to get measles. A woman I know was there with her infant daughter and she had to be quarantined for, I think, 3 weeks. Thankfully her DD never got it. But one little boy- also too young for the vax- did get it and had to be hospitalized because it was so bad. So I can see the doctor wanting to avoid that type of situation with their patients. I really don't know. Like I said, I'm just trying to think about it from the doctor's perspective.

[heathergirl67]

Originally Posted by Marnica

Yes it's called a GOD complex. Any good doctor works WITH parents, not TELLS them what to do and what is best for their family. And any good doctor also recognizes that they don't know everything, many parents are highly educated about certain things and the doctor will be open minded to opinions that may conflict with thier own. I mean have you ever heard of a doctor telling an adult because they didn't follow their reccomendations that they would not treat them any more???

Only once. And it was a member of my family. Of course. He was super unhealthy, made no attempt to eat right or exercise, and basically did nothing to take care of himself. He had high blood pressure and diabetes as a result. After a couple of years his doctor told him that he needs to find another doctor. Because he was sick of wasting his breath on someone who was trying to slowly kill himself.

I know that's a different situation, but I thought it was funny. And apparently it does happen in adults, although I imagine not too often.

[Deborah]

Considering all the idiotic things people do to destroy their health (I'm guilty too), the hard line on vaccines is just crazy. Doctors make this into a special case.

Consider pertussis. Vaccinated people can carry and spread this illness. They do it all the time. So, to use the example of the measles case above, let us imagine the following scenarios:

1) Grandmother comes along to doctor visit with a six month old. Grandma has a cough. Neither the doctor nor anyone else pays any attention. Shortly thereafter a two month old, in for their regular checkup, becomes very ill with pertussis and has to be hospitalized. No one blames the old lady with the lingering cough...

2) Teen with "bronchitis" comes to a picnic, mother asks the cousin to mind her baby for a little while, baby develops pertussis and dies. No one ever figures out that it was a misdiagnosed, vaccinated teenager that was spreading the disease.

3) Toddler with spots comes in to the doctor's office. Turns out that it is chickenpox, which the kid came down with in spite of being vaccinated. Six babies who were in that day eventually come down with CP too. Does the doctor apologize for not having a separate entrance for children with possible communicable illnesses? No, cause the child had been VACCINATED which is the beginning and end of community disease control nowadays...

If there was a solid, scientific basis to the "unvaxed kids are the ones who spread disease" it would be different. Sometimes it is the children who haven't been vaccinated, but there is a lot of stuff going around where the vaccines haven't worked, or there isn't yet a vaccine.

[hotmom]

so annoying, and insulting. Ive been thru that myself.
what city are you in? I was in san antonio for a minute and had a doc there...

[rlandnl]

Question though, if all these vaccines are SOOO good, and prevent all these diseases, other than children too young to vaccinate, which gosh since they start vaccinating practically as they are coming out these days, how is her unvaccinated children putting the vaccinated children at risk?

that's always my question to people that say MY kid is putting their vaccinated kid at risk of whatever disease they are talking about... it seems to me the children "at risk" for the VPDs are the UNvaccinated ones, and for me, as a mother of an unvaccinated child, and another on the way is a risk I am willing to take, vaccinating my children is NOT a risk I am willing to take.