Freaking out - Page 2

[Freedom~Mama]

I just wanted to say if you ever want to PM me I would love to talk. I haven't been through the same exact situation but my XH is abusive and a computer genius and I have felt very vulnerable online. I know how you are feeling with the aspect of feeling like you have no control. I still can slip right back into victim/abused wife mode and I really have to fight that and be strong and do the hard thing. For me the hard thing is not engaging or feeling hurt, angry, anxious, guilty etc. My XH is the master of mind games and it is hard to see it for what it is sometimes. Anyway please do PM me if you ever want to talk, vent etc. I know how hard it is dealing with someone like this. hug

[*MamaJen*]

Honestly, I think I would hold off on deleting your email account. Also, I think there's a privacy feature on facebook that makes you unsearchable.
Would it help you to have a game plan? I always feel better when I have concrete steps in front of me.
1. Breathe deeply. This man does not have as much control over you as you think he does. Abusers are all about mind games, manipulation and smoke and mirrors.
2. For now, you don't have to do anything. Until you get a letter from the courts, the ball is still in his court.
3. It might, however, be good to go in with an initial consultation with a lawyer. You can go in, talk to them, and tell them that you'll have to check and see if you can get together the money for a full retainer. Don't start by telling them that you're broke.
4. Start taking a look into what sort of free legal services are available in your area.
5. If he actually goes to the court, then you can take your next step. One handy trick a friend of mine used -- her delightful ex filed a child custody suit against her (I won't go into all the ways he's a real stand-up guy, lemme tell you ). She got served and didn't have a lawyer yet and only had three weeks to respond, so she went to the court and filed a petition for continuance herself. It bought her some extra time to get a low-cost lawyer sorted out.

In the interest of [child's name]
cause number
Name of court

Petition for continuance


I, [name], am the respondent in this Suit Affecting the Parent-Child Relationship.
I am a single mother and cannot afford market rate legal representation, but I have attended a clinic through [name of legal clinic] and am seeking an attorney who will represent me on a sliding scale. In the meantime, I request a continuance of all further legal proceedings until I have secured legal representation.

Respectfully submitted,

Your name, address and phone number

6. And finally, and in my opinion this is the most important step, learn everything you can about the mind tricks and manipulation and gaslighting he used to abuse you. If you understand abuse, you can fight it. I have this theory that the majority of abusers are either sociopaths, narcissists or have borderline personality disorder. In your case, I'd read up on sociopaths.
Here's a list of a bunch of resources.


Books
Why Does He Do That: Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men, by Lundy Bancroft
The Gift of Fear, by Gavin de Becker
Women Who Love Too Much, by Robin Norwood
Codependent No More, by Melody Beattie
The Verbally Abusive Relationship: How to recognize it and how to respond, by Patricia Evans
Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay: A Step-by-Step Guide to Help You Decide Whether to Stay In or Get Out of Your Relationship, by Mira Kirshenbaum
The Emotionally Abused Woman : Overcoming Destructive Patterns and Reclaiming Yourself, by Beverly Engel
The Sociopath Next Door, by Martha Stout
It's My Life Now: Starting Over After an Abusive Relationship or Domestic Violence, by Meg Kennedy Dugan

Websites
youarenotcrazy.com
http://www.ndvh.org/ -- National Domestic Violence Hotline website
EQI -- Emotional Abuse
Symptoms of Emotional Abuse
Signs of Abusive Relationships
Emotional Abuse Quiz
DomesticViolence.org
BPD Central -- resources about Borderline Personality Disorder
Love Fraud -- resources about sociopaths
Leaving Abuse
National Institute of Mental Health post-traumatic stress disorder site
The Survivor Manual -- Inspiring and Empowering Survivors to Lead Joyful Lives

Articles
Love and Stockholm Syndrome: the Mystery of Loving an Abuser
Warning Signs that You're Dating a Loser
Surviving a Breakup with Someone Suffering with Borderline Personality Disorder
Breaking Up With a Borderline
Narcissist or Sociopath? What's the Difference?
For Abused Women, Leaving is a Complex and Confusing Process

Hotlines
National Domestic Violence Hotline -- 1.800.799.SAFE (7233)
List of state hotlines

Other
Mosaic -- An online risk assessment tool for domestic violence, by Gavin de Becker
Searching for Angela Shelton, video streamed on hulu.com

Abuse 101
Red flags that you're in an abusive relationship
Gaslighting -- how abusers convince you that you're crazy
The cycle of abuse -- don't confuse the honeymoon stage with real change
Power and Control Wheel -- The elements of abuse

[chilly]

Wow, Jen, thank-you so much for that list. I actually took a class that had the very first book, Why Does He Do That, and it fit him to a T. I was actually reading that book when I left him when I was 10 weeks pregnant, and it was a HUGE part of why I left. I need to dig that one out again. I am pretty sure he is a Narcissist. I think I remember reading a definition at around that time and it fit perfectly.

I am going to call the local battered women's hotline a little later this evening when DC is a little more mellow (having a really rough day here today). I am going to see if they have any ideas on lawyers I can call who have a sliding scale, so at least I will know who to call.

I think that I will at least create a new email account and start switching things over as much as I can. Does anyone know if he can tell if I have read an email? It didn't have a flag letting the sender know if the email had been opened. Is there a way around that that tells him if I have read it? Ack, now I am wondering if maybe he somehow has my password to my email? I wouldn't think so, but I think I am going to go change the password anyway...

[MissLotus]

MamaJen has a lot of great info. I just wanted to add about Facebook... if he has an account on there, you can block him. I think if you block him the only possible way he could see you there at all is if you have mutual Facebook friends who may comment on your stuff. (You might want to go to the Facebook Help Center to get the specifics).

To block him, go to:

-Account, then:

-Privacy Settings, and on this page there should be an item along the bottom of the page: Block Lists. It lets you type in the name and e-mail address of the person you want to block.

[chilly]

He doesn't have a Facebook account that I know of. I once found an account with his name, but no pic and no info at all. It might be him with the privacy settings maxxed out. I guess it wouldn't hurt to block his email address.

I did call the local battered women's hotline tonight and they had a lot of info for me. They are opening a case for me just in case I need further assistance, and their legal assistance team is going to be calling me in the next couple of days. She said that they do work with a few lawyers who have a sliding scale fee. Not that they would be remotely within my price range, but I might be able to at least buy a few hours of time in order to draft a letter or two.

I keep wondering if his "suggestion" is termination of his parental rights. I highly doubt that, but it is about the only thing I would be remotely interested in at this point. I am not going to call or respond to the email though. I spoke with a good friend who is in a similar situation as me, but the father of her child is much less likely to ever contact her. She also said that she wouldn't respond to any of his requests for contact. It is going to eat away at me for a long time to come though. So frustrating that I had just recently felt like I could stop looking behind my back everywhere I went and now I am paranoid at every phone call, every person walking by. He certainly knows how to scare me.

[lucysmom]

First, huge hugs.

I tend to agree with all the advice you've received here, except for this one concern. Have you decided what you are going to do down the road when your DC asks you about her father? From the kid's perspective, at some point, it is unlikely that she will want to just accept your decision that her other parent have no part in her life. She may want to find out about him herself. And at that point, if the reason he has no access is NOT because he never tried, but because you hid, it may be hard to answer her questions about why you got to decide for her that she would have no relationship with her father.

I wonder if it would not be better to take proactive legal steps to establish but then regulate the relationship between your DC and her father. That way limitations on his involvement are either his choice or the court's decision, not your decision. You then are not the reason your DC has no relationship with her dad, if that is how it turns out.

I say this recognizing that, even if you can establish that there was abuse that is relevant to the family court judge's determination in a parenting plan, your ex would very likely still have some visitation with your DC. I realize that probably makes you incredibly anxious and makes you want to avoid the legal process.

Even if your ex and your DC do see each other and have a relationship of some sort, it doesn't mean that you and your ex have to have a relationship. The two questions are different, though related. You may need to develop skills with a good therapist about how not to let the two get intertwined.

I know that you must worry that, if your DC knew her dad, at some point she would be subjected to the same sort of emotional abuse that you were. Not sure what this dictates, however valid that fear is. I still think a child is likely to want to figure that out for herself, rather than having the other parent pre-empt the possibility by preventing her dad from ever finding her.

These are tough questions and tough choices. I do think that the perspective of your DC down the road is an important one to consider. Imagine her at 16, not just at 3 -- is she going to be OK with how you handle this fork in the road? Would you be if you were her?

xxoo.

[chilly]

Originally Posted by lucysmom

First, huge hugs.

I tend to agree with all the advice you've received here, except for this one concern. Have you decided what you are going to do down the road when your DC asks you about her father? From the kid's perspective, at some point, it is unlikely that she will want to just accept your decision that her other parent have no part in her life. She may want to find out about him herself. And at that point, if the reason he has no access is NOT because he never tried, but because you hid, it may be hard to answer her questions about why you got to decide for her that she would have no relationship with her father.

I wonder if it would not be better to take proactive legal steps to establish but then regulate the relationship between your DC and her father. That way limitations on his involvement are either his choice or the court's decision, not your decision. You then are not the reason your DC has no relationship with her dad, if that is how it turns out.

I say this recognizing that, even if you can establish that there was abuse that is relevant to the family court judge's determination in a parenting plan, your ex would very likely still have some visitation with your DC. I realize that probably makes you incredibly anxious and makes you want to avoid the legal process.

Even if your ex and your DC do see each other and have a relationship of some sort, it doesn't mean that you and your ex have to have a relationship. The two questions are different, though related. You may need to develop skills with a good therapist about how not to let the two get intertwined.

I know that you must worry that, if your DC knew her dad, at some point she would be subjected to the same sort of emotional abuse that you were. Not sure what this dictates, however valid that fear is. I still think a child is likely to want to figure that out for herself, rather than having the other parent pre-empt the possibility by preventing her dad from ever finding her.

These are tough questions and tough choices. I do think that the perspective of your DC down the road is an important one to consider. Imagine her at 16, not just at 3 -- is she going to be OK with how you handle this fork in the road? Would you be if you were her?

xxoo.

With the level of abuse waged during our brief relationship, I am absolutely, 100% ok with my DC not knowing this man. I have absolutely no desire for my child to grow up witnessing the treatment of women in the way that this man treats them. Allowing that to happen is essentially saying that that type of treatment is ok. It is also abusive to the child in my eyes.

I do understand that every child has a right to know where they came from, and when the time comes for my child to ask those questions, I fully intend to explain in an age appropriate way. I also realize that when my child is a teen that those questions will get harder and harder to answer. Luckily I have good friends with children in similar situations. My child is not alone in only having one parent with absolutely no contact with the other parent. I think that having friends with the same family structure will help tremendously when the time comes for questions.

Also, as others have stated, and as I have thought about for the past 24 hours, he has not made a good faith effort to have contact. He has not asked about my DC in over three years. He knew that I was pregnant and about when I was due to give birth. Waiting over three years to ask for info and a picture are not exactly making an effort to be involved in this child's life. I have had the same email address and phone number for about five years now, so I was not hiding in any way. People change their phone numbers and email addresses over the years, and I easily could have done both after a few years of not hearing from him.

Sorry to sound so ranty in responding, it wasn't meant in that way, but I am in a very frightening head space right now. I couldn't sleep last night and am still just feeling sick over this whole thing. I just keep wondering what his "suggestion" is.

[~Charlie's~Angel~]

Hopefully you understand that his "suggestion" probably doesnt exist. Just a way to get his foot in the door.

[yarngoddess]

What a nightmare. My ONLY advice is to Follow your Gut instinct. YOU know the right answer here. You ARE keeping DC safe and healthy, and on of the biggest ways of doing that is by keeping this potential biological "father" away from you and your child.

Listen to your gut instinct. Hang in there, and gain all the Love, Support and Wisdom all these BTDT Mamma's here on MDC have to share. You ARE NOT alone!

[chilly]

Originally Posted by Barbie64g

Hopefully you understand that his "suggestion" probably doesnt exist. Just a way to get his foot in the door.

Yes, I have to keep reminding myself of this. He would likely offer something extremely tempting, like typing up something that says he won't come after us for visitation or custody that wouldn't even be legal in court anyway, and then turn around and somehow make it look like I was somehow doing something wrong.

I am feeling a bit more at ease this morning, and am definitely not going to write to him or call. Thank-You all for so much kindness and advice. I love MDC, and am so glad that there are so many caring mamas, especially in this forum.

It was not an easy decision to keep my child's father out of his life, but it is one that I came to peace with a couple of years ago. It is not the right decision all of the time, heck it isn't the right decision most of the time, but occasionally for the safety of the child, it is. I know that my DC will likely be angry at me at some point, but I am also hoping that the way in which I raise her will show him that I am doing my best to keep her safe and to raise her in an environment that is healthy, not toxic. I really do feel that having friends in the same situation to talk to will help as well.

[MissLotus]

Yes, I don't think you have to hold yourself accountable for your abusive ex's lack of involvement. This "effort" of his is NOT about the child. Like I said, if that's what it was about, he'd take proper legal measures - any man longing to see his child would not just send a random e-mail after three years, with not even so much as an acknowledgement of all that has passed. A man wanting a relationship with his child does not abandon them, does not shirk all financial responsibilities. You have been there for your child all along. I don't think it's you that will be having to explain yourself down the road.

I really doubt that his "tempting" offer is anything designed to theoretically put your mind at ease, like a letter or anything. He doesn't even know you're concerned about the visitation/custody, etc... again, he knows if that stuff is established, he'll have to start paying child support. There is a down side to it for him. I think he's just playing a weird game and seeing if you'll bite. As long as you make it boring for him and don't bite, he'll crawl back under his rock.

[lucysmom]

Chilly, you didn't sound ranty. I'm glad you didn't hear my comment as minimizing the abuse you experienced. I'm not. I had similar experiences with my ex, the father of my DC. I have been unable to sleep for the same reasons. I know from first hand experience that feeling of looking at your kid sleeping and vowing that you will somehow prevent this chaotic, destructive force from harming her like he harmed you. In sum, I know that you have good reasons to think that your ex is unlikely to be a good presence in your DC's life.

But if you'll permit me to persist -- except for demonstrated abuse of the child, which did not occur here, abuse of the other parent is not grounds to prevent a relationship btwn the abusive parent and the child. It may be grounds for supervised contact only, to require treatment, etc., but not for no contact. If this were just the law, but it were wrong, then trying to hide would be justified. But at least from my perspective, it isn't wrong, because a child has a right not only to know where she comes from, she has a right actually to know her other parent. Not just to find the parent when she is an adult and has forever lost the chance to grow up with knowledge of the parent.

What I hear you saying is that, though I'm sure you would never wish to change your actual DD, you wish you had not conceived her with a scary, abusive, dysfunctional man. This man is not the other parent you would wish for your child, and he could do damage, and he sets a bad example in important ways. No doubt you are right about all of that. And that is true of many, many women. But the thing is, that is who you conceived this particular child with, and so the negative qualities he has are part of the package. That's just the way it is.

It seems like in the initial shock of contact, it all feels binary -- either you can have the admirable, calm, safe existence you've created for yourself and your DC, with no involvement by your ex, or you are plunged into a completely unregulated situation where there is no limit to the harm he can do. I just want to say that there is room in the middle. If your ex has contact with your DC, and you are disciplined about not allowing that to morph into some new relationship with you, it most likely can be OK.

He probably will be problematic and it may not be great for your DC to watch his behavior. But don't underestimate the importance of your role. You undoubtedly will be the primary residential parent based on what has happened to date, so long as he cannot establish that you interfered with his ability to establish a relationship (which is what I am counseling against). So most of her time will be with you. You can create a safe, stable physical and emotional platform for her where she can process whatever goes on with her dad. Kids do have to deal with non-optimal stuff, and that becomes more obvious and unavoidable the older they get. Our job is not to make a perfect life for them. It is to guide and protect them as they encounter what life has in store for them. For almost all kids, that has to include actual knowledge of both parents, however problematic they may be.

I don't mean to be pedantic and I don't mean to understate the real grounds for your fear and apprehension. I totally get "I wish he was not the father of this child." But he is. I just really worry about an all or nothing gamble that you can completely avoid contact with him for the next 15 years, and even if you can, I wonder if your DC will wish you had let her decide for herself.

Very best wishes.

[chilly]

I just went to my gmail account and blocked his email address, and all emails from the one domain that I know he owns. I am not going to delete my email address, but I am going to completely ignore anymore emails from him. They will go straight into my trash folder, without being forwarded to my Thunderbird account. That way, I can go search for them if the time ever comes that I need them, but he won't be able to terrorize me with them anymore. If he wants to contact me, he can go through the court system. I am going to change my cell phone number though. I just can't bear the thought of his randomly calling me. I will definitely keep the number to only those who need it. I felt like I was taking a little of the power back by typing his email address into the filter list over at gmail.

[*MamaJen*]

Originally Posted by chilly

If he wants to contact me, he can go through the court system.

This.
If he wants to be a part of his baby's life, he does legally have that right. However, it's not your obligation to bend over backwards and do the legwork for him.
If he wants to see the baby, he can play by the system and pay the money associated with that. But he doesn't just get to dredge up old abuse roles and manipulate you into doing it for him.

I do want to say one thing -- supposing all that did happen. Suppose he did prove paternity and file for visitation, and get something like every other weekend visits. I think it might not be as bad as you fear, as long as you go into it without carrying in that fear of him.
There are ways of having bare bones contact. For example, they have this website, Family Wizard, that gives all the information you need. It's got a calendar, message board, expense log, and all of the messages the two parties send to each other are visible to all the attorneys, and the judge can look at them. It basically is designed to prevent harassment. So if, worst case scenario, there was some visitation ordered, it wouldn't give him open season to abuse you again.
Now, it would be pretty awful if he started emotionally abusing your daughter. But my impression is that he would start out by being just fabulous super dad to her. The really horrible possibility would be if he started playing mind games against her using you, and as she got older started telling her lies about you and trying to turn her against you and....okay, I should probably shut up now. Yeah, I think it would be best if she never met the man.

[lucysmom]

Not sure about the position "he can go through the court system if he wants to see his baby" if he does not know where you live. I would be concerned about hiding from his efforts to contact you now, if he ever does locate you in the future -- then the reason he has had no contact from this point on is on you, not on him, and may mean the court is less likely to make you the primary residential parent. Again, it is a big gamble to actively avoid contact when he is clearly trying to make contact. I don't think a judge is likely to interpret his recent email as not really being about the child.

I really do think you need to have a good legal consult with the sliding scale attorney the DV shelter is trying to locate for you. Hiding may have negative implications if he ever is able to find you through the court system.

[chilly]

Originally Posted by *MamaJen*

This.
If he wants to be a part of his baby's life, he does legally have that right. However, it's not your obligation to bend over backwards and do the legwork for him.
If he wants to see the baby, he can play by the system and pay the money associated with that. But he doesn't just get to dredge up old abuse roles and manipulate you into doing it for him.

I do want to say one thing -- supposing all that did happen. Suppose he did prove paternity and file for visitation, and get something like every other weekend visits. I think it might not be as bad as you fear, as long as you go into it without carrying in that fear of him.
There are ways of having bare bones contact. For example, they have this website, Family Wizard, that gives all the information you need. It's got a calendar, message board, expense log, and all of the messages the two parties send to each other are visible to all the attorneys, and the judge can look at them. It basically is designed to prevent harassment. So if, worst case scenario, there was some visitation ordered, it wouldn't give him open season to abuse you again.
Now, it would be pretty awful if he started emotionally abusing your daughter. But my impression is that he would start out by being just fabulous super dad to her. The really horrible possibility would be if he started playing mind games against her using you, and as she got older started telling her lies about you and trying to turn her against you and....okay, I should probably shut up now. Yeah, I think it would be best if she never met the man.

Thank-you for the link to that website! That is absolutely fantastic, and although I hope I never, ever have to use it, I will certainly bookmark it and use it if need be. That is just a perfect way to prevent a lot of mindgames that I know would coming for all of us if this goes any further.

I am 100% certain that my ex would be super-dad-extraordinaire at first if he were granted visitation. And, I also have absolutely no doubts in my mind at all that he would eventually start planting all kinds of horrible things in DC's mind as she gets older. My ex has a child with another woman who is quite a bit older than my son, but was early elementary school aged when I knew him, and I witnessed all sorts of things said in front of him about his mother, and it scared me silly to think of my future child being subjected to that. At one point, I thought about contacting his ex-wife, and if this does go to court, I still might some day just to see what her experience with him was. Again, I am hoping it never comes to that.

As a child, I was used as a pawn between my parents who divorced when I was a toddler. It was extremely hard to handle as a small child, and then as a teen, I completely rebelled against it all. I really don't want my child to have to shoulder that burden. I realize that all children end up handling things that we wish the didn't, but if I can prevent her from enduring that type of abuse, I will do my best to help. My ex was 10 times more intelligent than either of my parents were too, making it all the more frightening to think of him using my child in his mind games.

I did speak with the battered women's hotline legal worker today too. She had some words of encouragement for me, and said that she was pretty shocked that he came out of the woodwork after three years. She said that something most likely happened in his life that made him want to try to get back into my life. I am thinking that he most likely broke up with whoever his current flame is, or something happened with his other child that made him want to take control over our lives again. The legal worker was very supportive of changing my email address and phone numbers. She agreed that leaving them the same for nearly four years was plenty of time to give him to contact us. She also gave me some other good tips for staying safe.

[chilly]

Originally Posted by lucysmom

Not sure about the position "he can go through the court system if he wants to see his baby" if he does not know where you live. I would be concerned about hiding from his efforts to contact you now, if he ever does locate you in the future -- then the reason he has had no contact from this point on is on you, not on him, and may mean the court is less likely to make you the primary residential parent. Again, it is a big gamble to actively avoid contact when he is clearly trying to make contact. I don't think a judge is likely to interpret his recent email as not really being about the child.

I really do think you need to have a good legal consult with the sliding scale attorney the DV shelter is trying to locate for you. Hiding may have negative implications if he ever is able to find you through the court system.

But what about the past three years? My mailing address is public record. It is super easy to find where someone lives. Voting records are public record, I have had the same phone number since we split up nearly four years ago, I lived at the same address for over a year from the date of our split, and any search online with my name, date of birth, and town that I live in will bring up my current mailing address. I am super easy to find. How is that hiding?

Thank-you for your advice, but I think I will stay away from him.

[MissLotus]

OP, I think you're handling this the right way. Good for you, for taking steps that make you feel safer and more at ease. If he's serious about seeing your child, he'll do it the right way, the legal way - and not by personally badgering you. I'm so glad you've found practical support from the women's hotline!

Lucysmom, it certainly doesn't sound like the OP has been in hiding, as she said she's had the same phone number and e-mail address for the past five years. His e-mail to her didn't seem to be asking where she lives now, as if he's been searching for ages. The onus is not on the OP to facilitate visits between them.

[Halfasianmomma]

Originally Posted by MissLotus

The onus is not on the OP to facilitate visits between them.

This. Very much so. I speak as someone who did bend over backwards for her abusive and manipulative ex, and it never lead anywhere good. The visitations became about him messing with my life and had little or nothing to do with DD. She would come back to me hungry, unchanged, dirty, etc. And seeing how XH now raises (or doesn't raise) his teenage son makes me SO THANKFUL I stopped faciliating visits for him. He now doesn't see DD any longer though he knows full well where we live, how to reach me, and where DD goes to daycare.

Good for you chilly. Keep us posted.