HELP PLEASE: day care/preschool "refusal to vaccinate" form

[newmum35]

I need some help. We are in the process of registering our son (age 2.5) at a licensed day care/preschool facility in PA. I spoke to the owner several times so far and she seems very nice. We have not spoken at length about vaccines, BUT when finding out my son was partially vaccinated (she asked) she mentioned to me that her son (also the same age as mine, and in the program too) has not received any vaccines. So I know she is not "pro-vaccine" by any means. My own son has had some vaccines up through 7 months, and so is partially vaccinated.

I asked her if I was to provide my own exemption or if she had one she could send out to me with the other papers she was going to send anyway. (I was thinking that would be more convenient for me to just sign their paper instead of going to the health dept or printing out my own)

Well, what I got in the mail was NOT what I expected. And I'm not sure she is merely just ignorant of the laws in our state, and the self-incriminating forms put out by the AAP, or whether she is trying to protect her own business in some way (since she is the owner of the facility) by using this particular form.

I am going to talk to her about this soon, but I need some help or advice on what to say. I know that you should NEVER sign such a form and so I have a problem with it!

I am trying to figure out why she even provided it in the first place, since it isn't a drs office. Is this common for a day care to do? I thought they would merely accept the signed religious exemption and that would be it. But this is the same type of "refusal to vaccinate" form found at mainstream pediatricians.

I'm confused. I'm guessing that she is just ignorant of the law.. but its very surprising because this is a top rated licensed facility and I would have thought that having an unvaccinated toddler herself, she would have sought legal counsel about this issue already. What does everyone else think is going on here?

Another note: on one side of the paper it gives 3 choices for 3 types of exemptions (medical, personal, religious). However, my state actually only has TWO of those. Maybe she just isn't aware of this, and accepts "personal" exemptions at her facility. To be honest, I'd LOVE to fill out this choice (even though its not actually allowed in my state) because that would leave my options open for the next few years, in the event we wanted to give another vaccine before school. I understand that once I sign the religious exemption for school, I am not supposed to give ANY more vaccines, or it could be called into question and they might possibly reject our exemption and then we'd have to play catch-up with the rest!

SO I was quite excited to see a "personal" choice on here, HOWEVER down at the very bottom, right before signing it says

"I know that failure to follow the recommendations about vaccination may endanger the health or life of my child and others that my child might come in contact with. I acknowledge that I have read this document in its entirety and fully understand it."

UGGHHH

The back is even worse, and you can click on the links below to see this paper they gave me.

front

back

I don't want to sign either side!! Please help me on what to do, what should I say to her; how should I handle this? (thank GOD she doesn't vax her own.. so maybe this will go smoother than I expect)

I plan to call her soon and let her know more about the laws of PA as I understand them in case she is unaware, BUT being the owner of the facility, and having an unvaxed son surely she MUST know about this. So I'm worried. Could they refuse my son if I don't sign THEIR form?

I thought that all I had to do was to sign a religious exemption like the one below in fact I was thinking I could even use this one and print it out:

http://www.woodmed.com/VaccineExemption.htm

Please help. I'm scared if I get tongue-tied and sound stupid she will say something like "if you don't sign the form, then we can't accept him"

[ma2two]

LOL, she's using Idaho's exemption form. You're in Pennsylvania, right? http://healthandwelfare.idaho.gov/Li...d=885&mid=2742

Just tell her she's got the wrong state, and submit your religious statement as required by PA law. http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/02...27/s27.77.html

By the way, Idaho law does not require use of that dreadful form, either.

[newmum35]

Originally Posted by ma2two

LOL, she's using Idaho's exemption form. You're in Pennsylvania, right? http://healthandwelfare.idaho.gov/Li...d=885&mid=2742

Just tell her she's got the wrong state, and submit your religious statement as required by PA law. http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/02...27/s27.77.html

By the way, Idaho law does not require use of that dreadful form, either.

I think you might be right. My paper is VERY similar to the Idaho one at the link you gave. Looks like someone revised the Idaho one in several places.. Why in the world would they do that?

Are licensed day care providers required to submit a copy of these exemptions to the state or do they just retain them for their own use, just in case there is a problem down the line or something and the state needs to see it?

Thank you so much for the links. Idaho. I never would have guessed. I will send her the PA law link one as well, and print it out too. Is there an actual online exemption form example somewhere that is put out by the state of PA that is similar to the one in the example I gave here. (it would be nice if I could reference for her this form on an actual .gov site) - I could use this one if they will accept it; I am assuming that the explanation under "comments" is optional and that I can leave that part blank.

eta: I just found yet another example of one here. This was actually what I was expecting them to send me, something like this form. I am assuming this is what the health dept has if i went there to actually pick one up? I got there from this page which lists all the states. I dont think I even know where my local health dept is. How do I find out? lol I feel so dumb. I went to their site here but couldn't find any search box like for zip code or anything. Thought maybe I could go there in person and pick up their form to compare it. Not sure how this works- is there one in each county?

[ma2two]

The PA law I referenced says, "The immunization status of each enrolled child shall be summarized and reported on an annual basis to the Department at the time prescribed by the Department and on the form provided by the Department." So the actual exemption letters are not sent anywhere, it seems.

Not every state has an official exemption form. PA doesn't seem to. You just need to provide the childcare "a written objection to a child being vaccinated on religious grounds."

[Emmeline II]

PA doesn't have a personal belief exemption so that form is not in compliance with PA law; anyone who fills out the "personal statement" does not have a valid exemption.

I would not call; I would just send a notarized religious exemption statement and perhaps include a note that you noticed the exemption form she sent is not for PA and you would not want your exemption to be rejected in a health department audit of vaccination records and exemptions, so you wrote your own statement in compliance with PA law (http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal...zations/557995).

or,

the form you found is the reverse of the PA immunization record. You can fill it out but it does not appear to be mandatory; the law only calls for a statement, the card is for convenience. Jump to pages 6 and 30 using the boxes at the top PA School Immunization Regulation Procedure Manual

I doubt she'd make an issue out of it. All she needs is to have the correct paperwork on file (vax card or exemption).

Sample Religious Exemption Letter(change the state law reference to your state):

Quote:
To whom it may concern;



(We / I) {First and Last name(s)}, as the {(parent (s) / guardian(s)} of ______________________(name of newborn child) are exercising (our/my) rights under the US Constitution, PUBLIC HEALTH LAW, ARTICLE 21. CONTROL OF ACUTE COMMUNICABLE DISEASES,TITLE VI. POLIOMYELITIS AND OTHER DISEASES, NY CLS Pub Health § 2164 (2002), to receive Religious Exemption from Vaccination, ALL injections, prophylaxis, & testing due to our genuine and sincere religious beliefs which are contrary to the practices herein required.

The U.S. Supreme Court held in Frazee V. Illinois Dept. of Security, 489 U.S. 829, that a religious belief is subject to protection even though no religious group espouses such beliefs or the fact that the religious group to which the individual professes to belong may not advocate or require such belief. This ruling is also reflected in Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 as amended Nov. 1, 1980; Part 1605.1-Guidelines on Discrimination Because of Religion.


Sincerely,

Your signature.
Date

[newmum35]

Originally Posted by ma2two

The PA law I referenced says, "The immunization status of each enrolled child shall be summarized and reported on an annual basis to the Department at the time prescribed by the Department and on the form provided by the Department." So the actual exemption letters are not sent anywhere, it seems.

Not every state has an official exemption form. PA doesn't seem to. You just need to provide the childcare "a written objection to a child being vaccinated on religious grounds."

Is this good or bad?

It might explain why nobody has caught this yet. I am guessing a summary status just means they want to know every year how many are fully immunized or how many have exemptions in place.

[newmum35]

Originally Posted by Emmeline II

PA doesn't have a personal belief exemption so that form is not in compliance with PA law; anyone who fills out the "personal statement" does not have a valid exemption.

I would not call; I would just send a notarized religious exemption statement and perhaps include a note that you noticed the exemption form she sent is not for PA and you would not want your exemption to be rejected in a health department audit of vaccination records and exemptions, so you wrote your own statement in compliance with PA law (http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal...zations/557995).

or,

the form you found is the reverse of the PA immunization record. You can fill it out but it does not appear to be mandatory; the law only calls for a statement, the card is for convenience. Jump to pages 6 and 30 using the boxes at the top PA School Immunization Regulation Procedure Manual

I doubt she'd make an issue out of it. All she needs is to have the correct paperwork on file (vax card or exemption).

Is it mandatory to get the statement notarized? I didn't realize that. Also, is it mandatory for both parents to sign it or could just one parent sign it? (referring to a married couple)

In the sample religious exemption you provided (thanks!) - if I use this one, what part do I need to change? Is it change the word "illinois" to "pennsylvania?" I'm confused.

[ma2two]

Only one parent needs to sign the statement that vaccines are against his or her religious beliefs. It is not necessary to get it notarized.

It does not need to be a complicated statement. You could just write something like, "My child is not vaccinated because vaccination is against my religious beliefs."

[Emmeline II]

Originally Posted by newmum35

Is it mandatory to get the statement notarized? I didn't realize that. Also, is it mandatory for both parents to sign it or could just one parent sign it? (referring to a married couple)

In the sample religious exemption you provided (thanks!) - if I use this one, what part do I need to change? Is it change the word "illinois" to "pennsylvania?" I'm confused.

1. Sometimes it helps avoid hassle to have it "officialized" .
2. Only one parent has to sign.
3. You need to change the state law reference in my letter.

[bbrandonsmom]

Here are some PA links
http://www.nvic.org/Vaccine-Laws/sta...nsylvania.aspx

I was going to look at them when I had time. Does anyone know off hand if you can have more than one exemption-like for different states? I have one for where we live, but we do vacation back home in PA, and I'm wondering if I can get one there as well, in case we were to ever run into medical issues there.

[cyberfish]

My daughter has been enrolled in a preschool for the last 2 years in PA. They told me that the exemption form I handed in goes into their files, they don't send it to anyone, and the only time they'd need to pull it out is if they got audited by the state. In that case, the state is just looking to make sure all the paperwork is there and legal. A religious exemption is legal.

I wrote a very short statement saying vaccines were against my religious beliefs, signed it, and handed it in. This is all that is required per PA law.

HTH.

[serenbat]

I have one for where we live, but we do vacation back home in PA, and I'm wondering if I can get one there as well, in case we were to ever run into medical issues there.

what do you mean?

exemptions are NOT kept with the state (any office of the state) they are kept with the institution (daycare, school, program, etc)-who would you file it with in your case?

[newmum35]

What does it mean when the health dept decides to audit the vaccination exemptions for a school? Do they receive copies of them and what do they do with them? Do they simply make sure they are all worded correctly so as to "pass" the exemption or do they enter the child's info into a system or something?

Ok so what will happen if one of the parents who have a child enrolled in this school had checked off "personal" on their form and then their exemption was later audited and rejected? Could they then make out a new and proper "religious" exemption at that point or would it be too late?

[blessedwithboys]

Originally Posted by bbrandonsmom

Does anyone know off hand if you can have more than one exemption-like for different states? I have one for where we live, but we do vacation back home in PA, and I'm wondering if I can get one there as well, in case we were to ever run into medical issues there.

exemptions are not for medical issues, they are for school entry and attendance. you file an exemption with the school and then forget about it. if you were vacationing in a different state from where your kids go to school, you would have absolutely no need for a vaccine exemption, even if they needed to go to the ER.

i live in one state and just drove over a thousand miles for vacay in another. i packed more than my truck has ever held before. i brought a whole suitcase full of clothes we probably wont even wear on this trip. i did not bring any type of vaccine exemption forms.

Originally Posted by newmum35

What does it mean when the health dept decides to audit the vaccination exemptions for a school? Do they receive copies of them and what do they do with them? Do they simply make sure they are all worded correctly so as to "pass" the exemption or do they enter the child's info into a system or something?

from what i understand, they get a yearly report for tracking of percentages. they also need to know who's exempt in case of an outbreak of VPD, but when an outbreak happens, its up to the schools to identify the exempt ones and let the HD know. i dont think in most cases the HD actually maintains copies of individuals exemptions, or vax records either for that matter.

Ok so what will happen if one of the parents who have a child enrolled in this school had checked off "personal" on their form and then their exemption was later audited and rejected? Could they then make out a new and proper "religious" exemption at that point or would it be too late?

i dont bellieve it would be too late. its different than say someone who did an exemption, then vaxed, then tried to be exempt again. and thats why they do yearly audits, to make sure everyone is in compliance.

[serenbat]

Ok so what will happen if one of the parents who have a child enrolled in this school had checked off "personal" on their form and then their exemption was later audited and rejected? Could they then make out a new and proper "religious" exemption at that point or would it be too late?

PA doesn't have "personal"- there is no such thing as that here- ONLY medical or religious.

Either yours is medical or religious, one or the other-that all PA gives you.

They are kept (at the school-but some systems do share) for the same reason you must keep physical records.

The only way one state would know from another is if records were transfered and the exemption was forwarded.

[newmum35]

Originally Posted by serenbat

PA doesn't have "personal"- there is no such thing as that here- ONLY medical or religious.

Either yours is medical or religious, one or the other-that all PA gives you.

I know that but the specific form the day care center provided me with DID have "personal" and I linked to a picture of it here


However, today I came across this page which has a map if you scroll down with some states pink and others green, pink referring to states with religious exemptions and green personal. PA is a green state. This website belongs to a dr, who is also a lawyer! The way PA religious exemption is worded, I am not sure anymore whether or not they might in fact have a personal exemption that is sort of tied into the religious exemption, depending on how you word it.

I actually don't want to word mine in such a way as to eliminate the possibility of vaxing again in the future (by saying it is against my religion for example) This was why I thought this form would be perfect as it spells out the law as it is written "Includes a strong moral or ethical conviction similar to a religious belief." - I'm just not sure if I have to include other comments other than checking the box and signing it or if I have to include a statement too and if so, what to write?!

What in the world do selective vaxers do in this state, who put their kids into day care before they've had everything they want them to have before starting K?? Surely there are some out there... so they have to have an exemption on file, then vax, then another exemption when starting K, right? Is this really a huge issue or is it MORE an issue if this is done, say, AFTER K age?

[serenbat]

However, today I came across this page which has a map if you scroll down with some states pink and others green, pink referring to states with religious exemptions and green personal. PA is a green state. This website belongs to a dr, who is also a lawyer! The way PA religious exemption is worded, I am not sure anymore whether or not they might in fact have a personal exemption that is sort of tied into the religious exemption, depending on how you word it.

sorry but I would not rely on someone's random site- use the official state site for correct info

we DO NOT have a personal exemption in PA the "form" you listed is not a state required form


http://www.mothering.com/discussions....php?t=1220893 (state sites are listed in thread)
you can also call the Pa health dept and they will tell you the correct information

[serenbat]

What in the world do selective vaxers do in this state, who put their kids into day care before they've had everything they want them to have before starting K?? Surely there are some out there... so they have to have an exemption on file, then vax, then another exemption when starting K, right? Is this really a huge issue or is it MORE an issue if this is done, say, AFTER K age?

PA does not give you wiggle room, done and file exemption- we are an all or nothing state, it could be far worse we could be like NY

[Emmeline II]

Originally Posted by newmum35

I know that but the specific form the day care center provided me with DID have "personal" and I linked to a picture of it here .

However, today I came across this page which has a map if you scroll down with some states pink and others green, pink referring to states with religious exemptions and green personal. PA is a green state. This website belongs to a dr, who is also a lawyer!

This link (http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal...zations/557995) which I posted before is the School Immunization Regulation Procedure Manual for the state of PA put out by the state government; go to Appendix B and read the state exemption form -- it clearly does not have a personal belief exemption. The daycare center can put what they like on paper but that does not mean it is a valid exemption.

[newmum35]

Originally Posted by serenbat

sorry but I would not rely on someone's random site- use the official state site for correct info

we DO NOT have a personal exemption in PA the "form" you listed is not a state required form


http://www.mothering.com/discussions....php?t=1220893 (state sites are listed in thread)
you can also call the Pa health dept and they will tell you the correct information

Ok from re-reading this other thread, what I am understanding is that if your dr does not participate in the state registry, and you are not entered into it, then possibly that is a way to still selectively vax AFTER an exemption is filed somewhere. Is this correct?

I have no idea if mine participates, or if I could trust them enough to ask, but I definitely want to find out whether my son is on it already or not. Because if he isn't on it (or even if he was) and they would agree to NOT enter any new vaxes received in the future on it, then how would it be a problem in the future? The info would simply be at our drs office, and my own paper records (like in the past) and nowhere else.