I need to vent about my friend

[Grace and Granola]

I have a friend, we're pretty close, not bff's but close, and I babysit her kids during the day while she and her husband work. I'm with them from about 8:30 until 5. They are girls ages 3 and 6. I really like my friend, really. But sometimes I just can't be ok with her attitude about parenting. And I'll admit that I haven't experienced being a working mother, so maybe it's easy for me to pass judgment. But my friend will often pick up her kids and then sit and chat with me for a while after. She says hi to the kids very enthusiastically and then shoos them away so we can talk. I can see the kids just itching to be with her. To hug her and sit on her lap and tell her about their day. She complains about her 6yo being "clingy" and tells her to get off and go play. Her husband often works a second job at night and on those nights she will ask to hang out and have dinner with us because she can't handle (her words) being by herself with the girls. FROM 5:30 TO 8:30!! She is such a confident, fun and outgoing person, I just can't fathom that she wouldn't be able to manage for three hours. And that's the other thing. It's summer and we are doing very active things and it's hot, so the kids really need and want a nap. I don't let any of the kids sleep past 3, so they usually get about 1.5 hour nap. Well, apparently, sometimes this makes the kids stay up an extra hour, so she doesn't want me to let them have naps. So, she wants me to deal with cranky kids all afternoon so she doesn't have to be with them an extra hour at night. When I have a rough day with all the kids, she often comments about how she doesn't know how I can do this every day.

So the real kicker is today, my friend had to go on a business trip for three days. Her husband had to work tonight until 9. So, I suggested the kids just spend the night since they will be right back here in the morning. The kids had been asking for a sleepover and I thought I would try it, knowing it could be rough, and even terrible! It was the 3yo's first time sleeping at someone else's house. So, since either of the girls often start asking for their mom or dad around 4pm....when we were eating dinner, I thought I would send her a text just saying all is well. I got no reply. So, we actually had a really great day. Dinner and bedtime went well and although the kids stayed up late, it was a success! During bedtime, the kids' dad called to say goodnight and make plans for tomorrow, which I thought was totally sweet and thoughtful. My friend didn't call, text or email. I also sent her a little email note telling about what we did all day and how it went and attached a couple of cute pictures of the sleepover. No reply.

I'm just frustrated and confused. Aside from the lack of parenting, my friend's husband does ALL of the housework and all of the cooking, except for crap out of a can. If this were a stranger I would have all sorts of things to say about this woman! But she's my friend, I like her, but I do not get this attitude about parenting. I know there are women out there who choose to work because they feel like they couldn't handle doing the sahm thing, and I get that. But what about after work and when you're on trips? I'm with my kids constantly, but when they go to grandma's, which they've done a million times, I still want to call at the end of the day to see how their day went.

And believe me when I say that I am NOT that sahm that has everything under control. My house is frequently unclean and I'm very often frazzled by squabbling children by the time she gets to my house. So no, I am not holier than though trying to mak her out to be incompetent! I don't want to be judgmental, so I'm venting here instead of out loud to a person IRL!!

[LROM]

You totally have your right to your feelings and reactions to your friend's parenting. For me though, from what you said, I don't really see the big deal as long as her kids seem fine and like they're getting their needs met (or even doing better than just having their needs met). Sure I'd be calling and texting to talk to my girls and make sure all was well if that was me, but unless you actually think the girls feel neglected or sad or it impacts them negatively, I don't really see the big deal.

But since you mostly said you just want to vent, go for it!

[PoppyMama]

hmmm. I'm sorry you're in this position, I would politely decline giving up afternoon naps but otherwise you are sol in this situation. If she has other redeeming qualities
Posted via Mobile Device

[Grace and Granola]

Originally Posted by LROM

You totally have your right to your feelings and reactions to your friend's parenting. For me though, from what you said, I don't really see the big deal as long as her kids seem fine and like they're getting their needs met (or even doing better than just having their needs met). Sure I'd be calling and texting to talk to my girls and make sure all was well if that was me, but unless you actually think the girls feel neglected or sad or it impacts them negatively, I don't really see the big deal.

But since you mostly said you just want to vent, go for it!

Thank you for affirming my right to vent Yeah, this stuff is not like a deal breaker or anything, just annoying. I guess it's one of those "to each their own," but it's one that I don't get.

[LilacMama]

I struggle with depression and I act like your friend does when I'm depressed. Just a thought. It's great that she has a baby-sitter like you!

[alfabetsoup]

If your friend were the husband would you be so upset about her behavior? It sounds like the husband is the dominant parent and housekeeper in their relationship. Sounds like your friend is doing what she needs to do to get by, maybe parenthood was not all she expected it to be.

WRT the naps, I am a SAHM BUT if I worked and told my caregiver not to let my children nap and they did anyway, I would be LIVID. It has a knock-on effect that's pretty awful, here's what happens if DD1 (4yrs) has a nap: she doesn't go to bed til 10 or so (so there's my evening gone) and then sleeps badly and has to be coaxed out of bed to get to school on time. Our morning would be horrendous, full of tears and whining and more of the same after school. She'd be wiped by dinner time and end up in bed by 6:30, then wake up at 5:30am and want to have a nap, which I would have to veto. It would probably take 2 days to recover our schedule. If you are her paid caregiver, you really should respect her wishes.

[alfabetsoup]

Also, perhaps her job is quite stressful and she needs to decompress when she finishes--just half an hour without any demands, and that's why she wants to chat with you while her kids play.

[~Charlie's~Angel~]

Just a suggestion. When the kids are tired and cranky in the afternoon, in lou of a nap, perhaps some quiet play time or a (gasp) movie. Just a thought. Some kids can recharge with just some RR rather then actual sleep.

[momtoTnT]

I have a friend like this - but it is my bff, and it has started to impact our relationship - we both work, and I'm struggling with not being judgemental because "I know what it's like", ykwim? You totally have a right to vent. I, personally, can't imagine not calling my kids if I were to have to be away from them - my friend never calls. I asked her why, and she said it makes it harder for her dd - when they just "disappear" she's fine. When they call to check in, she has a very hard time settling down (she's 7).

I do agree with pp's though on napping - if she doesn't want them too, I wouldn't nap them. Our DCP has moved to naps a few times a week, which works well for us and for her - something to consider? Or, can you nap your kids, but let hers stay up (our DCP always does this - some kids never nap, like my DS, while some always do, like my DD).

I think parenting differences in friendships issues are so hard.

[mtiger]

Originally Posted by Grace and Granola

So the real kicker is today, my friend had to go on a business trip for three days. Her husband had to work tonight until 9. So, I suggested the kids just spend the night since they will be right back here in the morning. The kids had been asking for a sleepover and I thought I would try it, knowing it could be rough, and even terrible! It was the 3yo's first time sleeping at someone else's house. So, since either of the girls often start asking for their mom or dad around 4pm....when we were eating dinner, I thought I would send her a text just saying all is well. I got no reply. So, we actually had a really great day. Dinner and bedtime went well and although the kids stayed up late, it was a success! During bedtime, the kids' dad called to say goodnight and make plans for tomorrow, which I thought was totally sweet and thoughtful. My friend didn't call, text or email. I also sent her a little email note telling about what we did all day and how it went and attached a couple of cute pictures of the sleepover. No reply.

It could be that she was tied up when she received your text (it is a business trip), and by the time she was available to reply - it was late. I don't text people after the hour I would call them - I use my cell as an alarm, so the volume is up enough that a text would wake me. So I don't do it to others, in case it is a similar situation. Just a thought.

[reignbelle]

For napping id just say the kids are too cranky when you don't let them nap. If you don't want to deal with cranky kids and she doesn't want naps then the kids need a new sitter. You don't have to give in because she's paying you just know that she may have to find someone else.

[Evergreen]

It could be depression.

I am also a working mother with two girls, mine are ages 6 and 3. While I can not, of course, explain your friend's feelings maybe I can help explain some of the feelings I have and you can see if this relates to how she handles things

There is just so much to do at the end of the day that I can totally see how if a friend watched my kids I'd be tempted to hang and chat with her as opposed to go home and cram everything that needs to be done into the small window before bedtime. I do it because it has to get done, but if I was overwhelmed or feeling depressed I'd have even more reason to want to ignore reality.

I can't stand when my kids try to climb all over me when I first get off work, especially my 7 year old. She is just too big and it irritates me. I need to decompress. I'd like to do it on the couch, but I can do it by cooking too. Yesterday my 7 year old came and snuggled against me and started asking to 'help.' Under any other circumstances I have fun cooking with the kids, but not dinner time on a work day. She knows this, and I told her to "Beat it."

I love going on business trips. I have two a year. I get a big bed and room and bathroom all to myself. I get a TV. I dont' have to worry about cleaning or someone taking it as an invitation to nurse every single time I sit down. I also don't have cell phone service at one of the hotels where we stay. Not saying that's what happened here.

You have a right to set a schedule and stick to it at your childcare but she needs to know this. Could you compromise and push nap back a half hour or an hour? I can't imagine telling my daycare that my dd wasn't going to nap anymore. They'd tell me to find another daycare.

[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

Of course you have the right to vent and to feel as you do. It can be really disturbing to be on the observing side of something that you don't "get". Especially since, by definition, you are only seeing the partial picture.

On the practical side ofw hat you have said -- I would negotiate on the nap thing. Is there an alternative she would accept? Can you make naps earlier? Do your kids still need a nap and you can use that as an 'excuse" for enforced (gently) quiet time? I definitely would make sure she is OK with what you propose, but you should be able to come up with something that works for both of you.

For the pick-up, maybe suggest she take 5 minutes to reconnect with the kids while you deal with yours and then you guys can chat for a few minutes?

In the larger picture, I too struggle with depression and anxiety and it effects my ability to parent the way I would like to. Luckily my kids are old enough now that when we get home I can disappear onto the computer for a little while after we walk in the door and just hide to decompress from work and geer up for home. That's my hardest part of the day, by far. When they were littler and needed my attention immediately after getting home from daycare/preschool, it used to make my skin crawl. Literally. I had to fight the urge to yell and scream and lash out. Far better to spend a few minutes chatting with a friend (or now playing a computer game) than to take that out on the kids who don't understand or deserve that type of reaction. Or to take my out at the time, which usually involved more wine than was good for me. Thank god I have a DH who completely understands what I need at the end of the day and could take some of the pressure off.

So there may be more going on than you know, or even she realizes. Some of us probably aren't the best choices for parents and we cope the best we can. She is so lucky to have a friend who can help and the kids are really lucky to have such a caring sitter.

[2xy]

I have been a SAHM, a WOHM, and somewhere in-between (we're homeschoolers, but I WOH).

I work in one of the busiest restaurants in the city, and if everyone started pawing at me the minute I got home, I would be very crabby. I need some quiet time to recharge when I get home. Waitstaff do not generally get breaks. Often, we don't have time to eat, either. When I get home, I usually want food and solitude for a little while.

Conversely, if your friend has some sort of desk job where she works alone most of the time, she might just need to chat with a grownup for a little while. Going from an isolated cube to taking care of small children can be lonesome.

I love my kids and enjoy their company. But I have gone away on work trips, and I didn't call them every single day. Some days I was too busy, and didn't get a chance until after their bedtime. Some days, I *gasp* was off having fun and lost track of time. When my kids were little, I didn't have a cell phone. Interestingly enough, they were secure enough in their dad's care that they didn't fall apart emotionally because of a missed phone call.

I would try to find some sort of middle-ground on the nap issue, although I don't see how a 6yo would need a daily nap....?

[sapphire_chan]

Originally Posted by alfabetsoup

If your friend were the husband would you be so upset about her behavior?

Sending the kids off to play after being away from them all day instead of interacting with them? Not being able to handle being the main parent for 3 hours? Letting the spouse, who is also working full-time, handle all the housework? Not calling/email while on a business trip with phone and computer access?

Heck yeah I'd be upset at a husband who acted like that. I'd tell him to man up and be a father already.

I bet a dad like that would call spending time with his own children "babysitting."

[choli]

Originally Posted by Evergreen

It could be depression.

I am also a working mother with two girls, mine are ages 6 and 3. While I can not, of course, explain your friend's feelings maybe I can help explain some of the feelings I have and you can see if this relates to how she handles things

There is just so much to do at the end of the day that I can totally see how if a friend watched my kids I'd be tempted to hang and chat with her as opposed to go home and cram everything that needs to be done into the small window before bedtime. I do it because it has to get done, but if I was overwhelmed or feeling depressed I'd have even more reason to want to ignore reality.

I can't stand when my kids try to climb all over me when I first get off work, especially my 7 year old. She is just too big and it irritates me. I need to decompress. I'd like to do it on the couch, but I can do it by cooking too. Yesterday my 7 year old came and snuggled against me and started asking to 'help.' Under any other circumstances I have fun cooking with the kids, but not dinner time on a work day. She knows this, and I told her to "Beat it."

I love going on business trips. I have two a year. I get a big bed and room and bathroom all to myself. I get a TV. I dont' have to worry about cleaning or someone taking it as an invitation to nurse every single time I sit down. I also don't have cell phone service at one of the hotels where we stay. Not saying that's what happened here.

You have a right to set a schedule and stick to it at your childcare but she needs to know this. Could you compromise and push nap back a half hour or an hour? I can't imagine telling my daycare that my dd wasn't going to nap anymore. They'd tell me to find another daycare.

My girls are teens now, but the age difference is the same. This is exactly how I felt when my kids were that age, too. I think most people need time to decompress when they get home from work. My job can be pretty stressful, and I really need some time to "come down" and make the transition.

And oh I hear you about the business trips. Lying in the bathtub reading a book in the glorious silence In ways it was like a mini vacation.

My DH does most of the housework too. However, I do all of the accounting, bill paying, investment planning, food shopping, etc. Every family splits the chores in the way that suits them best.

[rightkindofme]

I think you expressed yourself pretty well. You have very different priorities and you have a hard time understanding hers. That's ok. For what it is worth, I am more in your position and I have trouble understanding that side of things too. I had children because I fanatically wanted to have kids and hang out with them so I just 'don't get' why other people feel differently. Why have kids if you don't want to spend lots of time with them? It's... hard. It's hard not to judge. It's hard to be loving and accepting of people who make very different choices. You aren't a bad person for having mixed feelings. However, if you want to continue this as a working relationship as well as a friendship you probably are going to have to find a way to be ok with her having a completely different approach to life. Otherwise it might be hard for you to be supportive/friendly and you will start actually acting like you judge her and your friendship will be out the window.

I have a lot of sympathy for you. I hope you find a way to feel ok with stuff.

[2xy]

Originally Posted by rightkindofme

I had children because I fanatically wanted to have kids and hang out with them so I just 'don't get' why other people feel differently. Why have kids if you don't want to spend lots of time with them?

I had my first because of a birth control failure. I had not planned to be a mother at 21. I'd always had the idea that when I had children (sometime off in the distant future) it would be when I was able to be a SAHP.

Also, I was active duty Navy at the time, so just quitting my job and hanging out with my kid was not an option.

[~Charlie's~Angel~]

Originally Posted by rightkindofme

Why have kids if you don't want to spend lots of time with them? It's... hard. It's hard not to judge. It's hard to be loving and accepting of people who make very different choices.

Not to thread-jack, but I have been struggling with this same question lately. Neighbors of ours had the hardest time getting pregnant. She went through all sorts of treatments and miscarriages and FINALLY had a son. And promptly hired a nanny. Then went through the same thing for another year, then had a daughter, and hired another nanny (Those are not typical in my area, it usually means you are of the white collar and above income bracket) They both have businesses, are VERY wealthy, are NEVER EVER HOME, and the nanny lives there 24/7. I JUST.DONT.GETIT. Why go through all that to have someone else raise your kids? Baffles me!

That said, i work full time. When I am on my way to pick up my boys in the afternoons, sometimes I think my heart might BURST before I get there from excitment to see them. Then I might let the older one sit on a chair and help me cook while the little one is at my feat. Am I always like this? NO WAY! All I am saying is, Everyone is different. It takes all kinds.

[Grace and Granola]

Thank you all. every one of you! I have to say I'm surprised more people on an Attachment Parenting focused board seem so ok with this detached parenting style. Believe me, I get that working moms need the decompression time. And the thing with not wanting to deal with the kids for three hours at night, I would understand that if she had a ton of housework and cooking to do on top of it, I wouldn't want to go home either. The point I was trying to make about her husband doing all the housework, was not to make this a gender role issue, but to say that all she has to do when she goes home a couple nights a week is be.with.her.kids. And yes, if this were the husband I'm sure the women on here would have something to say!

The part that bugs me the most is that after work, if she needs to decompress, maybe she needs to do that before she comes to get them. These girls have been away from their parents for 9 hours. Many days, they start weeping around 4:00 that they want their mom and dad. I just can't imagine being that 6yo and craving mommy's hugs and so badly wanting to tell her about her day and have her mom say, GO AWAY.

the nap thing isn't really an issue, it was just me venting about the fact that the ONLY reason her having a nap at my house is an issue is because it means mom has to be with and deal with her for an extra hour. And this 6yo ASKS ME for a nap! I enforce quiet time at my house where each kid is in a separate room. The 4 and 6yo have books and other activities, I do not force them to sleep. But about 8 out of 10 times when I go to check on her she's asleep. To me, she's telling us she needs a nap. And I hate that I have to do whatever it takes to keep the child awake. And then she's crying at 4 because she wants her mom who will promptly ignore her in an hour and a half.