Older 1st time mamas: did you lose your childless friends?

[LROM]

This is a spinoff of the "Did you lose friends when you had kids?" thread...

My question though is more about sudden disappearance of close friends who'd ALWAYS been there before. Has this happened to anyone?

Most of my close friends are around my age (late 30s/early 40s). I had my 1st at 42. Long story but there was a real question re: whether DP would show up and be a partner and father after the birth, so my 2 closest bestest friends swore up and down that no matter what, they'd be there for me and baby, whatever DP did. Neither of them has kids, but both spend a LOT of time around other people's kids and love babies. ANd they pledged support in watching her now and then on weekends too. Soon as DD was born though, DP came around immediately and was a wonderful, present father. We still struggled big time relationship wise, but he was present and madly in love with his DD.

Thing is, BOTH of my friends literally DISAPPEARED within a month of DDs birth. Like, didn't return some calls, flaked on meetups, and pretty much dropped out of contact! I definitely asked what was going on - one said she was just "really busy" (even though her work had slowed down and she was around more than usual - knew that through other friends), and the other didn't respond at all.

I have 2 other close close friends who live in other states, also my age, also without kids. One of them dropped mostly out of contact when I told her I was pregnant. We're still in contact, just dramatically less than before and whereas she was THE person I went to when I was struggling, I hardly ever call her when I'm struggling now, because she's so distant most of the time. The other is an OB/GYN who actually came to see me when I was preg, was very supportive throughout. Then her and her DH were trying and she's recently given up on trying to conceive. She's also dropped largely out of contact.

Just for the record, I don't talk about DD all the time or even bring her up when talking to these friends (the few times I do), and if they ask about her I answer their questions but I don't bombard them with DD details/stories.

So are there any other older 1st time moms with friends who disappeared pretty much right when your child was born or soon after? Did you learn anything or have theories about why? I don't want to assume it's because my having a kid triggers sadness or something in them, but it's just such a dramatic difference in contact (or total lack of contact) and I just can't ignore that it all happened right around DD's birth.

Last thing, they all know the 1st year was VERY difficult for me (either from me or through friends), DP was a PAIN in the arse and we struggled greatly. So it's also not like they assumed I was fine, they knew I wasn't.

Can anyone else relate?

[intentionalmama]

Originally Posted by LROM

T I don't want to assume it's because my having a kid triggers sadness or something in them, but it's just such a dramatic difference in contact (or total lack of contact) and I just can't ignore that it all happened right around DD's birth.

I think this may be a good guess. When I was in my late thirties; I wasn't sure if I wanted to have kids or not. I was lucky enough to have my child at forty. (Now I wish I had 5) A counsellor told me that women often have a really hard time once they hit forty if they have not made a decision on whether or not to have children. So I imagine it could be hard for your childless friends to be around you as this could trigger their own sense of loss or grieving.

[LROM]

Thank you, that's very interesting to hear what a counselor said about this. I can't shake the hunch that that's basically what's happening. I guess I'm just confused, given that all the friends involved spend LOTS of time around other people's babies and children.

Maybe it's more that because they're all really good friends, we've shared a lot of the "dating/kids/will it ever happen" journey, so maybe my situation (even though it's not all roses) triggers differently because we all have so much in common...? I know for some of them, the kids they watch/spend a lot of time with are kids of much younger friends or relatives and that they don't identify with their situations the same way.

Hmmmmm any other ideas?

[Amys1st]

FTR, I am 38 and had started our family at age 30, so I am not one the later ones. BUT, I have friends who are childless or know several people IRL who are going to have their children later or choose this.


I dont know the history of your dd's father. You mention you didnt know how much he was going to be a part of this, whether he would step up etc. also you own relationship with him. Now if your friends are the type of friends I think they are, they know all the ins and outs of this relationship with the baby daddy, the ups and downs etc. They no doubt were a shoulder to cry on, take your call at an inconvenient time etc. Am I correct??

Have you done the same for them for similar type things in their life? You seem upset that they are not taking care of your dd, not that they are not in your life. If I was in their shoes I too would not be answering calls etc because I would feel like, she only wants me as a sounding board or babysitter. Do you call them when you're NOT struggling or when they are struggling to lend an ear or a hand?

Not trying to be mean, but see both sides of it.

[LROM]

I think that's a very fair question, I don't take that as mean at all. And the answer is yes, yes, and yes.

I'm one of those people that everyone else goes to when they are struggling. And interestingly, most of my friends are like that too - they are used to most people going to them with their problems, not being the one to talk about their problems. So I've found myself over the years being one of the few people taht those kind of people feel comfy talking about their own stuff with.

So with all the friends in question, I've very much been there for them when they've struggled, and that's partly why their disappearance was so sudden and so noticeable - we were in such regular regular touch!

Also re: watching DD, I can see how the way I wrote that, it sounds like I'm upset about that. Mainly it's the loss of friendship and checking in and feeling abandoned that upset me the most. But there is a piece of them not checking in on how I was doing with DD in the early stages that really hurt me too - mainly cuz when DP and I were really really struggling (before this pregnancy) and I considered getting pregnant on my own and becoming a single mom, these 2 friends encouraged me to do it and told me over and over again how they'd be there and be very concrete childcare help, as well as just being supportive in general. They voluntarily assured me of this again right before I had DD - I didn't ask them to, they reached out and said they would. Then... silence.

So mainly it was the loss of friendship, but I did also find myself wondering what kind of shape I'd be in if I'd done this on my own, I think I'd be a lot more alone than I ever imagined and I'm grateful it didn't happen that way. And to be honest, I got really upset about that.

One more detail, most of my reaching out to them when DD was born was more about just seeing them and goign to lunch. I actually never asked them to be regular childcare or anything like that, and one to this day I've never asked to watch the baby at all, not even for an hour.

[AbbieB]

Yes. It happens.

Going through a pregnancy and birth change you in a million little ways. Your attention shifts and your priorities shift. Childless friends drift away. Not in every instance but in general this is what I have found.

We had a long 2 years of trying to conceive baby number 2 and I stopped hanging out with pregnant friends or Friends with new babies. It was just to painful at the time.

I also think that the first intense year of parenting is something that anyone not going through it at the time has little patience for. Being an AP kind of parent just makes it harder. My childless friends and family would get impatient with interruptions and my lack of willingness to be away from the baby.

[velochic]

I actually only lost 1 friend when I had our dd and it wasn't really because of having a child, but because I took an extended maternity leave and she was a work friend. What we had in common was lost (work), not really anything dealing with having children. Many of my friends are actually a bit older than me (I'm in my 40's, they're in their 50's mostly, one is early 60's) so I was actually LAST among my older friends to have children. Except for one friend that I made at LLL, who is about my age, none of them parent(ed) like I do. Our friendships have not been based on being parents in any way, but other mutual interests. So, overwhelmingly, I would have to say, No, having children (or child, in my case) did not affect friendships.

[CatsCradle]

My situation is similar to Velochic's above. In fact, this thread made me pause and think about all my various friends throughout life, and I realize now that I've had so many different friends at different stages in my life. We drifted apart because of varying interests or moving onto different things. I didn't remain friends with anyone in my hometown (although we do connect on Facebook); I didn't remain friends with anyone from college; I had loads of friends in the city where I lived several years after college - didn't remain friends with them; had three separate sets of friends right here in my present city who I occassionally talk to - but we don't go out or anything anymore. I "lost" most of friends at various times when I changed jobs. When DD was born (when I was almost 43), I had some friends who I saw occassionally but honestly, I attribute loss of contact with them more to the fact that we are all extremely busy, and when we do get together, it has to be planned way in advance.

I have found, though, that as DD gets older, my current friends (as absent as they may be sometimes) are a lot more interested in getting together. Much of it, in my opinion, has to do with the fact that they can engage with DD now. She's a little person with opinions and jokes and sideshows. Sometimes I think people have trouble connecting to a baby/infant...I know I did before I had DD. As someone who was child-free for a long time, I realize now that it was sometimes difficult to engage with someone whose primary focus was an infant.

[Amys1st]

Originally Posted by LROM

I think that's a very fair question, I don't take that as mean at all. And the answer is yes, yes, and yes.

I'm one of those people that everyone else goes to when they are struggling. And interestingly, most of my friends are like that too - they are used to most people going to them with their problems, not being the one to talk about their problems. So I've found myself over the years being one of the few people taht those kind of people feel comfy talking about their own stuff with.

So with all the friends in question, I've very much been there for them when they've struggled, and that's partly why their disappearance was so sudden and so noticeable - we were in such regular regular touch!

Also re: watching DD, I can see how the way I wrote that, it sounds like I'm upset about that. Mainly it's the loss of friendship and checking in and feeling abandoned that upset me the most. But there is a piece of them not checking in on how I was doing with DD in the early stages that really hurt me too - mainly cuz when DP and I were really really struggling (before this pregnancy) and I considered getting pregnant on my own and becoming a single mom, these 2 friends encouraged me to do it and told me over and over again how they'd be there and be very concrete childcare help, as well as just being supportive in general. They voluntarily assured me of this again right before I had DD - I didn't ask them to, they reached out and said they would. Then... silence.

So mainly it was the loss of friendship, but I did also find myself wondering what kind of shape I'd be in if I'd done this on my own, I think I'd be a lot more alone than I ever imagined and I'm grateful it didn't happen that way. And to be honest, I got really upset about that.

One more detail, most of my reaching out to them when DD was born was more about just seeing them and goign to lunch. I actually never asked them to be regular childcare or anything like that, and one to this day I've never asked to watch the baby at all, not even for an hour.

I agree with you, I would be hurt too. And yes, I would want to reach out and do the things we did before such as lunch etc just for the normalcy etc.

I have noticed in the different "seasons" of life, I kind of lost touch with different people and pick up again down the road. Such as with a BIL. He is only 2 years younger, but childless and up until a few weeks ago single for several years after a brief marriage in the midst. Not much in common, so we would still see him, visit etc, but its different than other fmaily members. This new wife wants babies, so I am thinking we might pick up again or since we are out of the young child stage of having, nursing etc it might be even longer!

[Rosebud1]

I know I seek and value friendship a lot more now as a mother of a young child than when I was younger and childfree. It's so intense being with my little one day in and day out (though it is also a joy!) and meeting her every need that I want more opportunities to connect with adults my own age, etc etc. However I was rather cavalier about maintaining friendships in my younger days when I had less responsibilities and more freedom.

And I agree that for some women in their late thirties/ early forties, seeing a friend with their little one may trigger some uncomfortable feelings in them, even if they are reconciled to not have children of their own.

In addition, some friends may be impatient with the distractions a little one creates. I know there are times when I have a less than satisfying chat with a friend because my toddler is interrupting our phone conversation, or my brain is tired from being up all night with my LO.

[LROM]

Thanks everyone, I really appreciate all the responses.

I think what I'm taking away from this is, given that often friendships have "seasons" and they can ebb and flow (which I'd definitely experienced before myself), mostly that's probably what happened to me.

And I also believe 2 other factors affect my specific situation... I talked to another close friend (who knows at least one of the absent friends very well) and she said that while she definitely thinks my having DD affected my friendship with that friend (because she was also trying and still hasn't gotten pregnant), she also pushed me to not assume the distance/ebb was about me at all. Even though I've never experienced these friends getting so busy they are totally out of touch, I guess stranger things have happened than them all doing it at one time?

But the main thing she said that really hit home and I think is also part if it, is she said "Your friends KNOW you! And you're a very principled person. I bet they're worried that you're gonna read them the riot act if they are in touch, and the longer they wait, the more they feel bad because they know you and know you wouldn't do that to them (and didn't, even during my chaotic 1st year with DD when we also moved, house got broken in to, relationship challenges, both of us work full time... etc). I think that's also a big factor.

My friend said I should really consider just letting it all go and reaching out to those friends in a light, kinda carefree way. Instead of what I'd probably say which is "Where are you??? I have been on the verge of calling hospital and police for weeks! Are you ok?" To just leave a light "Hey, thinking about you, hope you're great, would love to chat!" msg. That'll be hard for me, cuz in some ways it'll feel fake, but I would love to chat and if I can really let go of the hurt, that msg could be authentic.

Again, thanks for all your thoughts!

[hildare]

Many of my friends have older children.. i'm the only one really in my group with such a young babe. It's hard to arrange to hang out, but they're still my friends and I know it's not that they are avoiding me.
However, I did lose one friend, but we had begun to fall out of touch when I got married. At the time, I wondered about it.. and am nursing a bit of hurt about it now, as well. She lives pretty close by and only visited me once while I was pregnant. We're both late 30's. (whoa- it's weird to type that!!!) She's seen my child maybe twice since dd was born. I agree with the pp's who said that this is probably a trigger or brings up feelings of sadness. I know that personally, when I had a m/c that it was excruciating to see pregnant women in public, and I imagine it might be a similar feeling for my friend (she didn't have a m/c but isn't in an ideal situation to have children should she want to conceive). I imagine some of the avoidance may even be subconscious.
However, I have some younger single friends who don't avoid me, even though we used to be quite the partiers. That makes me think it really is fertility anxiety or questioning a childless lifestyle that creates a divide. Not always, but for some people. I'm still trying to work through it myself...

[LROM]

Hildare your post made me realize something I totally forgot: I lost another friend temporarily awhile back but this time it was because she was pg with her 2nd, I'd just had a miscarriage (like JUST had it), and I was supposed to stay with her and her family on a business trip. She hadn't told me she was pg and I only found out as I called to figure out logistics of getting to their house and he said "She's sick - between the flu and the morning sickness she is NOT a happy camper". I was like "Morning Sickness???"

I told her husband directly and I hope considerately that I was thrilled for them, but given what I'd just been through I felt like it would push me over teh edge to stay with them so I'd find somewhere else to stay on that trip. That friend didn't speak to me throughout her pregnancy and for awhile after, even though I called, wrote, called her husband - even called their parents to make sure they were ok. Eventually (more than a year later) she said she felt like I'd abandoned her, and I told her I felt like my miscarriage was a really understandable reason for me to feel anxious about staying.

ANYWAY I just thought it was interesting that I"d forgotten about a time when I steered clear of another friend for similar reasons (although I didn't drop out of touch the way my friends did). And yes, after my m/c I was in tears often at the sight of a pregnant woman.

[MommaCrystal]

I'm wondering about your baby's father. Are you together or perhaps he is a part of your life now in a way your friend's aren't comfortable with? I've had a couple of friends through the years that I eventually just moved on from because of their husband/partner.

[ZoshaMosha]

Originally Posted by MommaCrystal

I'm wondering about your baby's father. Are you together or perhaps he is a part of your life now in a way your friend's aren't comfortable with? I've had a couple of friends through the years that I eventually just moved on from because of their husband/partner.

Yes. This was what I was going to say. Could it be that your friends really struggled to support you in going on in your life without your DP (whom, I assume, they aren't madly in love with), only to watch you slip back into your destructive relationship?

I did fall out of contact with a dear friend over this very issue. It wasn't on purpose, but the friendship just became hard. She was in a physically and emotionally abusive relationship. They had one daughter. She made the brave decision to file for divorce. I was there for her to lean on. I told her I'd help her no matter what after the divorce. I listened to her for hours, helped her make plans, helped her out materially with whatever I could, though she didn't ask for anything. I wracked my brain for ways to help and she was always in my thoughts.

She ended up calling off the divorce after several months of separation. She was almost there, but then backed out. I dunno, I just felt drained.

[LROM]

I can totally understand wondering about him. Interestingly, if I was going to guess, I'd say he does play a role in them falling off, but it's the opposite of them not liking him.

This would be a whole different loooong thead but essentially he's actually a really good man and fantastic father, we've just struggled because he's a lot younger than me and didn't feel ready to be a father. But his reasons for not feeling ready made sense and were just the kinds of things parents-to-be should worry about. I never pushed him to do it, but I was also realistic with him that we didn't have years to decide or wait it out if he was going to have kids with me. It was a LOT of back and forth and "We're breaking up. We're staying togehter. We'll have kids. We won't have kids."

In the end, all of my friends say they think he's great, he's very kind and he's an awesome dad. The only thing them (and me!) don't like about him is how critical he is of my physical appearance since having DD. That's hard on me and many times I've told him he needs to decide what's most important to him and if he needs a 25 yr old with 6 pack abs, I'm never going to be that and he should move on immediately. He is also a lot younger and we live in an area where single men are so rare, women are coming onto him all the time. We both know that if he wanted a young hottie he could have her, and I am clear he really needs to decide if that's what he wants and go get her and leave me in peace. He always comes back to saying I'm who he wants to be with, but I know the whole in shape thing is important to him. He's come a long way actually and geuinely seems happy now with me the way I am, so I feel like we've done a lot to work through that.

Plus, come to think of it, the friends I lost don't even know that part cuz they haven't been in touch to hear about it! So that shouldn't be a factor. But they do know about our struggles to decide what to do as a couple. But even through that they all said they like him.

The friends I've lost are mostly single, except for one who's in a very challenged relationship (they just broke up), so I do wonder if my DP just turning out to be a pretty good guy (even if we still have our stuff - but don't most couples?) and awesome dad, plus our DD is so awesome and everyone loves her, I just think maybe the package was a bit too much to be around if you're questioning your choices in life?

[lolar2]

Are these friends, by any chance, fat? Is it possible your partner said something in front of them, maybe a joke or something about fat people, that didn't register with you or that you didn't hear, and they are avoiding him? Maybe they think you even agree with him as far as his bias against fat women in their 40s?

[Annie Mac]

Taking care of children is intense and time-consuming. It changes your attitudes and perceptions of the world. Your whole world revolves around this little creature. Not everyone understands that, and even if they do, not everyone knows how to deal with that. I think that losing friends after you have a baby and they don't is just a natural, organic process. I would imagine you are not the same person in all aspects now.

[LROM]

lolar 2, that's an interesting idea but no, none of these friends is fat. And one of them actually lost a lot of weight in the last couple of years. DP has been very positive to them - one of the things that's great about him is that no matter how much he doesn't like something about someone, he's very gracious and tries to find positive things to focus on about them. And these 2 friends he really liked - it wasn't even a struggle to be nice to them for him.

Annie Mac, this would make all the sense in the world if these friends had actually spent ANY time with me to see how I'd changed. What is so confusing to me is they literally disappeared when she was born, so they don't know if an dhow I've changed.

[poppan]

I suspect it has little to do with you and everything to do with them. I think somewhere along the way you had said that at least one of your friends was actively trying to get pregnant but is not yet pregnant. I was ten years younger than you guys and going through this experience where I was trying to get pregnant for years and friends were getting pregnant more easily than me. It was a tough, tough space to be in. I was happy for them but I avoided them like the plague. It hurt so so much to see any pregnant woman, even complete strangers, see how happy they were, when I wanted it so much but could not have it. Ditto for new mothers with young babies. I could handle the older children (18+ months) but anything under that was hard.

I could take pregnancies that took a long time to achieve a little tiny bit easier because I hoped to be one of those people one day. But anyone who got pregnant on accident or on the second try -- well let's just say I was insanely jealous of them and probably even hated them at some point. I also think that the fact it all worked out for you -- even to the extent of your baby's father sticking around and turning out to be a great guy -- actually made the situation worse. Misery hates happy, if you get my meaning. I've so been there. If they are old friends give them some space and time -- when your child is older and they come to terms with their lives, they will probably come around. Try not to take this personally, I really doubt it has anything to do with you (except for the fact that you got all the things they wanted).