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Friend lacks basic concept of child safety - WWYD? - Page 3

post #41 of 74
The average age for a child to walk down stairs unassisted is 3 yrs. An 18 mth old is not remotely behind if they can't walk down stairs yet and in fact are on the early side if they can.
post #42 of 74
I don't think you are overreacting at all for not wanting to continue the friendship. I think there is an attitude of disrespect toward you and your safety concerns and I think your concerns are certainly valid!
The window really sounds scary and losing your son in the crowd at the park is very negligent in my opinion.

If I were you I would continue being acquaintances at the group meetings and just not arrange any more playdates or anything.

By the way, I also agree with the pp regarding the age of going up and down stairs with no problem! I think children who are able to do stairs by themselves at 1 year old are quite amazing and 18 months old, definitely advanced!
My kids were not developmentally delayed at all but did not do stairs alone before 2 years old!
post #43 of 74
Thread Starter 
Thanks for your support, everyone . Their building is also done in some fancy newly-built style, which means that the stairs are not just along walls, but the walls have huge square holes in them on one side that kids could certainly fall through. It is all concrete. In the, not unlikely event that a kid would fall down there, they'd need a trip to the ER at the very least.

I'm gonna see them again tomorrow at a group meeting. I am not going to watch their kids, and definitely not let them watch mine. Oh yes, at the last meeting, she left her newborn with me, in his stroller, and then went off somewhere. There were different organic stalls with honey, soap, essential oils etc, and she was looking at those. When he woke up, I called her, and she said she'd be right over. Then, she took another 20 minutes to get back to her newborn.
post #44 of 74
This all has to do with your parenting comfort levels - I think it's perfectly reasonable to expect a parent of two children to do what they say they are going to do, when they don't do that - well then that sort of gets to me too, you sound very uncomfortable in their appartment and I would agree that it's more prudent to meet on your terms at your house or in a park that you feel more comfortable with, maybe suggest to the mother to get a ring sling or wrap for her baby and then she can take care of her baby and child and you can take care of yours - if you want to continue the friendship that is - because the laughing at you is really not something I would appreciate either.
post #45 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by LavenderMae View Post
The average age for a child to walk down stairs unassisted is 3 yrs. An 18 mth old is not remotely behind if they can't walk down stairs yet and in fact are on the early side if they can.
It's actually alternating feet that takes until 3. Most 2 year olds should be able to go up and down stairs.
post #46 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapphire_chan View Post
It's actually alternating feet that takes until 3. Most 2 year olds should be able to go up and down stairs.
Many 2 yr. olds will still need some assistance walking down stairs (a hand, a rail, wall). That's why I said walking down stairs unassisted on average takes until 3.
But really either way an 18 mth old not being able to walk down stairs is in no way really behind developmentally.
post #47 of 74
If I REALLY liked this new friend I might still hang out with her but probably not at her place, only at mine or other places where I feel like I know the layout and expected landmines. And you're already not letting her watch your kids, which is what I would do immediately as well. I don't think it's nice to make no attempt to accomodate a guest's concerns the way they refused to just close and lock their door during your visit so you can feel comfortable that your child is inside their apartment and not down the hall.

I say this even though I am a pretty lax parent when it comes to safety and other people are regularly horrified at how un-childproofed our place is/was for the age of our children. I think that's my business but when other people visit I do try to accommodate to their level of comfort to the extent that I can. Kids (and parents) are different and I understand why some people supervise more closely.
post #48 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by LavenderMae View Post
Many 2 yr. olds will still need some assistance walking down stairs (a hand, a rail, wall). That's why I said walking down stairs unassisted on average takes until 3.
But really either way an 18 mth old not being able to walk down stairs is in no way really behind developmentally.
It's true that not being able to walk down stairs isn't behind at 18 months, but I wouldn't automatically offer a hand to a toddler who was carefully approaching a reasonable (non-steep, railings) stair case. "Unassisted" according to the ASQ for 18 months includes holding on to a railing or the wall.

Not that that has anything to do with the staircase in the OP's situation, that thing sounds scary! And even with a LO who is able to go up and down stairs, it doesn't mean they will go up and down the stairs instead of just walking off into space.

I'd trust a crawling baby around stairs alone before I'd trust a running toddler.
post #49 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by VisionaryMom View Post
First, I don't think I've ever "screamed" at anyone as an adult. That would feel like a major overreaction to me.
I do not know how I would react if I thought my child had fallen out of a window and was injured or worse - screaming at someone would not be out of the possibilities.


If it was me, I think I would just see this person at group events.
I now have a seven year old and the friends with children; I have cultivated since having him are people I really like and people I trust my child with.

Someone who promises to watch my child and then tries to deny saying they agreed to this when something goes wrong; someone who disregards my request (because they think it is foolish - instead of telling me that they are not going to lock the door and watch it - so I can decide what I need to do) (note - if that is what happened) ; people who laugh at me when I am distraught over not knowing where my child is and fearing the worst - these are not people I would want to invest a lot of time in. ( sorry I can't go back to read the post not sure if you said they laughed at you or just thought you were too hypersensitive. In either case - they didn't seem to care about you)

I think people with different parenting skills can be friends -but I think what is really important is that a person can feel they can trust them.
post #50 of 74
Honestly it sounds like neither of your understand or respect the others choice in parenting. So long as everyone can respect what the other does with their own children I don't see any reason the friendship can't contiunue but it will take effort on both of your parts to respect that you each know your children and their capabilities. By a year all my children could safely navigate stairs. Because we had stairs and they practiced and I taught them as soon as they could crawl how to handle stairs. but when children came over who did not know how to handle stairs I expected their parents to make sure they stayed off the stairs.

i think the key is everyone takes care of their own children in a way they feel comfortable with. and not judge the other one.

This may not be the making of a best friend kind of relationship but at the same time it is nice to have someone you can hang out in the sandbox with every now and then. Just know the limits of the friendship.

ONe thing to be aware of though, in this kind of friendship with this dynamic is that as my kids got older my friend would let her children run off in the park, go to the pool alone etc while I enforces rules about boundries and such. which meant my kids often got left behind when the free-er kids left the boundries. it was sad and meant that we did not often play with those friends so as to avoid my children being hurt by getting ditched (i was not willing to relax the rules and was also offended that my dd "friends" would not stay inside her boundries as a curtesy to her....). But that's just the ebb and flow of friendships sometimes.
post #51 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottishmommy View Post
Wow! Those people sound irresponsible. I wouldn't call this a free range, vs helicopter situation. Parents must provide a secure environment for small children. Accidents are the number one cause of childhood death. Not disease, not stranger abduction, but accidents. Falling from windows, getting hit by cars and drowning are the biggest threats children face nowadays.
This.
post #52 of 74
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapphire_chan View Post
It's true that not being able to walk down stairs isn't behind at 18 months, but I wouldn't automatically offer a hand to a toddler who was carefully approaching a reasonable (non-steep, railings) stair case. "Unassisted" according to the ASQ for 18 months includes holding on to a railing or the wall.

Not that that has anything to do with the staircase in the OP's situation, that thing sounds scary! And even with a LO who is able to go up and down stairs, it doesn't mean they will go up and down the stairs instead of just walking off into space.

I'd trust a crawling baby around stairs alone before I'd trust a running toddler.
My 18 month old can go up the stairs without assistance, and can walk down the stairs while holding my hand. I'm all for allowing kids to explore as much as possible, even in potentially dangerous situations like learning to use stairs - but with adequate parental supervision, so that potentially dangerous situations stay just that, and the parent can intervene as needed.

FWIW, by no means did I start off judging these people for their parenting of their own kids, though I was very much aware that it was something I would never do like that myself. I know all kids are different, and that what looked unsafe to be might not be unsafe for them. After having the chance to observe their behavior with my kids, as well as with their own, I know now that the older kid definitely has no inherent sense of safety. He nearly jumped off his balcony, nearly walked out of the already mentioned window, nearly ran under various cars several times, and jumped onto his newborn brother with full body force - all just while I was watching. I intervened in all those situations. The parents are probably annoyed about that, and have started a thread about their new friend who is terribly overprotective somewhere
post #53 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Latte Mama View Post
You're not overreacting. Kids do fall out of windows, get lost in the woods at national parks, etc. It happens to parents who honestly believe their child wouldn't do,climb,disappear, or other stunt not usually done.

Stuff happens.
Eric clapton springs to mind. His son was three I think?
post #54 of 74
If you can continue the friendship by forgiving them and then never ever trusting them again with your children's safety, then why not? If you can't and/or don't think it's worth it, then it's their loss.

And, coming from the same culture, I can vouch it's NOT normal to think a tiny toddler should be left unsupervised next to a low open window or stairs with holes in the walls, nor is it normal not to keep an eye on said tiny toddler near a lake among lots of strangers. NOR is it normal to say you'll keep the toddler safe and then not do it.

And yes, I climbed the same fortress walls and descended into the same scary catacombs someone mentioned above when I was 9. NOT 1.
post #55 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by MittensKittens View Post
I know now that the older kid definitely has no inherent sense of safety. He nearly jumped off his balcony, nearly walked out of the already mentioned window, nearly ran under various cars several times, and jumped onto his newborn brother with full body force - all just while I was watching. I intervened in all those situations. The parents are probably annoyed about that, and have started a thread about their new friend who is terribly overprotective somewhere
I couldn't be around them. Not even to have just one of the kids over to my house to play. I'd be too worried that'd I'd told about an accidental death if I maintained any sort of contact. And if I'm not allowed to act to prevent it, I don't want to know about it.
post #56 of 74
Our ds's bf has no idea of the danger of water - I went swimming with them once and I'll never do it again; I literally rescued the child out of the water some many times I lost count, I even fished her 20 month old brother out of the water when he just jumped in and the mother was so slow off the mark i could hardly believe it, ds loves his bf but I made a decision to never ever put myself in that sort of position again - i can completely understand where you are coming from.
post #57 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by MittensKittens View Post
FWIW, by no means did I start off judging these people for their parenting of their own kids, though I was very much aware that it was something I would never do like that myself. I know all kids are different, and that what looked unsafe to be might not be unsafe for them. After having the chance to observe their behavior with my kids, as well as with their own, I know now that the older kid definitely has no inherent sense of safety. He nearly jumped off his balcony, nearly walked out of the already mentioned window, nearly ran under various cars several times, and jumped onto his newborn brother with full body force - all just while I was watching. I intervened in all those situations. The parents are probably annoyed about that, and have started a thread about their new friend who is terribly overprotective somewhere
You can call it whatever parenting theory you want but imo it's just neglect and that child is going to get seriously injured (and if he doesn't it's pure luck).
I couldn't be around that, I would be on edge the enitre time.
post #58 of 74
The thing that would bug me most (after I knew my kid was safe) would be that both parents have blatantly lied to you (I'm trusting your interpretation that the dad wasn't being sarcastic).

Being able to trust my friends is a must for me -- I wouldn't be able to carry on a close relationship with someone if they had a history of lying to me. I'd be able to be pleasant at group activities, but I just don't have it in me to take a friendship beyond the superficial level with someone I can't trust.
post #59 of 74
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Litcrit View Post
If you can continue the friendship by forgiving them and then never ever trusting them again with your children's safety, then why not? If you can't and/or don't think it's worth it, then it's their loss.

And, coming from the same culture, I can vouch it's NOT normal to think a tiny toddler should be left unsupervised next to a low open window or stairs with holes in the walls, nor is it normal not to keep an eye on said tiny toddler near a lake among lots of strangers. NOR is it normal to say you'll keep the toddler safe and then not do it.

And yes, I climbed the same fortress walls and descended into the same scary catacombs someone mentioned above when I was 9. NOT 1.
Really? What catacombs are those? Sounds like I have missed an essential tourist spot here , or is it somewhere in Kalemegdan?

I really like this person, and I saw her today at the group meeting, and we had fun. No incidents to be mentioned. I'm fine with her watching her kids, me mine, and no harm done. But I am still amazed that both these situations happened. Yes, they lied, and showed blatant disrespect. But most of all, something really serious could have happened to my kids in both situations, and I'm still kind of shaky about that.

You know I'm no helicopter parent who tries to wrap my kids in bubble-wrap, right, Litcrit?
post #60 of 74
different things are safe for different children though. The important thing to remember is that they do not know your child or what he is or isn't capable of so you will just need to be sure to be the one who watches your child.
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