gifted play group

[connieculkins]

So I decided to try and reach out to the other mothers that I know who have gifted kids to try and start a weekly or bi-weekly play group. To my surprise the other mothers were interested and so I set up a first time meeting at my house with our gifted kids. It was really refreshing to be able to openly talk about IQs and other topics which are usually taboo in other circles. One of the other mothers agreed to host the next meeting at her house so that takes some of the pressure off of me.

Well, one of the problems I'm now facing is that one of my best friends found out that I started this play group and she basically invited herself and her two kids to the meeting. Now I didn't want to make waves so I just let her come to this one meeting, but I really don't want her to come to anymore because her children are far from gifted and I really only want this to be a get together for gifted children and their parents. It was really awkward discussing gifted topics with her around, knowing full well that her kids are just average or bright. If I allow her to come to the meetings then I'm worried that the play group will just turn into a generic play group, not a gifted one. It was nice to be able to pull out advanced puzzles and books for the kids, but I had to pull out out other books which my kids outgrew years ago to accommodate her children. I really just felt sorry for them.

[moominmamma]

I don't really know what to suggest about the social delicacies. Did you explain to the mom that you were trying to create a support group for parents of gifted kids? Or for gifted kids, or both? I find the idea of an grass-roots playgroup just for gifted kids to be a little odd. It sounds like you're looking more for parental support, which is fine, but I think you run the risk of coming across as exclusionary. Almost all other forms of support for gifted families come from some sort of arms-length organization that has concrete qualifying criteria.

I'm not sure what it is about your post that leaves me feeling so awkward about the scenario. The impression I'm getting (and I admit that it may be not an accurate reflection, just how it comes across in your post) is that you'd rather your children didn't have to play with "average or bright" children, that giftedness is an exclusive club you're thrilled that your children are members of, and that you felt sorry for those other children for being less bright than the others. I hope that's not what is coming across in real life. As I say, it may just be the result of how you wrote the post.

At any rate, I really think that a parent attempting to create a gifted group is setting herself up for a potential awkwardness and hurt feelings. It's a bit of a minefield you've waded into. Good luck finding your way. I would guess that if your friend and her kids felt awkward and sorry for themselves they won't continue to attend. If they don't feel awkward, what's the harm?

Miranda

[whatsnextmom]

I'd be cautious with the whole scenario. We were part of a playgroup when my eldest was little. We connected because we were parents of similar interests and styles. We liked to get out and hike, camp, go to museums, plan fun fieldtrips, ect. We were more focused on experiences than academics. As it turned out, almost every child ended up with the gifted label. However, the reason we were so successful for so long was because we didn't make giftedness our focus. We were still careful with eachother. Certainly, if someone was having an issue, they could share and we understood and could advise on what worked for us. However, we didn't talk IQ's or achievement as a rule. There were always things that were held back and wisely so. It didn't really matter than a couple weren't gifted. They were being raised a similar way and shared interests. That bridges a lot of gaps.

I made the mistake of being too open with one woman from the playgroup I considered my best friend in the group. Both our girls are gifted but when a few years later mine skipped a grade and hers didn't, the relationship broke. Thankfully, we managed to keep the girls connected (they are 13 now, met at 1) and we are amiable... we just understand that my children are not to discussed unless I have a typical parental complaint about clean rooms or something.

Almost all other forms of support for gifted families come from some sort of arms-length organization that has concrete qualifying criteria.

I think there is good reason for this.

As for your situation with your friend, I guess you have to make a choice. You are either going to let her continue to participate and change your group to perhaps one that focuses on getting out and about with a fun social group of like minded children and kids or explain that it's a gifted support group that meets with the intention of discussing gifted issues in a home setting. Certainly, I wouldn't want to put a friend in the position of being in a group where people "felt sorry" for her children.

[no5no5]

Why are the kids doing puzzles and reading books at a playgroup? That doesn't seem like a terribly social activity. I guess I can see the value in meeting to talk about gifted issues, but if the kids are all doing their own things and not playing together, why not make it a parent group instead of a playgroup?

Does your friend think that she has gifted kids, or did you not tell her that it was for gifted kids?

[ChristaN]

Originally Posted by no5no5

Does your friend think that she has gifted kids, or did you not tell her that it was for gifted kids?

That was my question as well.

[KCMichigan]

Originally Posted by moominmamma

I'm not sure what it is about your post that leaves me feeling so awkward about the scenario. The impression I'm getting (and I admit that it may be not an accurate reflection, just how it comes across in your post) is that you'd rather your children didn't have to play with "average or bright" children, that giftedness is an exclusive club you're thrilled that your children are members of, and that you felt sorry for those other children for being less bright than the others. I hope that's not what is coming across in real life. As I say, it may just be the result of how you wrote the post.

Miranda

I agree with this. The whole thing feels 'odd'.

I encourage my kids to play with children of all kinds and we have been involved in several play groups. In some areas my children are advanced in some skills and in others not so much (one DD has mild special needs and though she can read very fluently at 4, is articulate-she is socially awkward and has some quirks). I think it is the 'exclusivity' of the group that bothers my sensibilities.

I mean some gifted kids are 'sleepers' or gifted in unusual ways or it do not overtly express it. Who is anyone else to judge this? Most kids under age 5 or so have not been tested and if they were testing may or may not be stable until kids are much older.

We have been involved with all sort of kids and I think my kids benefit from all of it. If we want to find a playgroup or new friends we look for activities that are likely to have those type of people that have like interests (local science center, library, etc) instead of declaring 'giftedness' as a criteria.

I am assuming as well that the play group would be multiage due to family structures so all sorts of kids should blend in.


I know my kids are young so most of their friends are around the same age, but I dont *know* any kids that are openly declared gifted (per testing) in our age bracket-- I suspect a few are and I also suspect a few have been tested but it never came up in casual conversation.

It is summer--shoo those kids outside with some magnifying glasses, cameras, shovels, notebooks, and dirt. Kids of all ages and abilities should enjoy themselves with these activities.

[greenmamapagan]

I think it's important to keep this

So I decided to try and reach out to the other mothers that I know who have gifted kids

. I gather from the OP's previous posts that she is not someone who has known/suspected since toddlerhood that her little ones were unusual. Good on her for reaching out.
I don't really see the problem with calling it a playgroup if it's intended for parental support
OP - sorry about the situation with your friend. I guess you just have to be upfront with her, take a deep breath and tell her that you were looking for some support from parents with similar issues. Hope she doesn't take offence

[greenmamapagan]

I think it's important to keep this

So I decided to try and reach out to the other mothers that I know who have gifted kids

in mind. I gather from the OP's previous posts that she is not someone who has known/suspected since toddlerhood that her little ones were unusual. Good on her for reaching out.
I don't really see the problem with calling it a playgroup if it's intended for parental support
OP - sorry about the situation with your friend. I guess you just have to be upfront with her, take a deep breath and tell her that you were looking for some support from parents with similar issues. Hope she doesn't take offence

[JollyGG]

I get the motivation for starting the playgroup. My son attends a full time gifted class and we have get together over the summer for the new and returning students for the new kids to get a chance to meet their future classmates before the first day of school. It is really nice to have other parents that you don't have to be quite so guarded with. We don't discuss scores but we are a bit more open with our kids achievements. It's also nice to have someone else to discuss our frustrations with things such as certain schools hesitation to test for the gifted program and other frustrations. It's also a good place to meet other parents who have been there and done that and may have tips and ideas for issues you are having or who can help you advocate for something for your kids.

It sounds like you felt like the playgroup was a success on this front.

In past posts you have shared that your son is having some struggles with finding a social group he feels he fits in well with and that part of that is a feeling of being different for being gifted. A gifted playgroup could provide a setting for him to meet and hang out with someone he may connect with in the way he's been searching for.

My confusion in your post is the same as pp. Did your friend understand the goals/focus of this playgroup and still want to attend? Does she consider her kids gifted and you may have missed it?

The only solution I can see to this group is to be very transparent and open about the goals and focus of the group then be welcoming to anyone who wants to attend no matter what your perception of their fit with your group is.

I've recently started a families/parents of gifted kids group for local families. It's basically intended to be a setting that parents can brainstorm ideas for advocacy and enrichment and then find like minded parents to put together some of these advocacy and enrichment ideas. But anyone who wants to discuss these ideas is certainly welcome. For example one of our areas of enrichment is likely to be going to a language immersion camp next year. This is certainly not an opportunity that only gifted kids can enjoy. Anyone who wants to help put together a group and do fund raising and send their kids is certainly welcome. Some of our topics will be of more interest to a broader group than other but everyone is welcome to contribute in whatever manner interests them.

[loraxc]

I guess I can see the value in meeting to talk about gifted issues, but if the kids are all doing their own things and not playing together, why not make it a parent group instead of a playgroup?

This is what I was thinking. Do you need a group for you or for your kid?

[Rivka5]

What IQ test did you administer to all these kids, to figure out which ones are gifted and which ones aren't? What was your IQ cutoff for the playgroup?

[Tjej]

I think that you just have to be really open about what the group is for and let people decide for themselves if they are comfortable coming. If your friend and her kids want to come then so be it.

I understand your desire to commisserate with other parents, but I have to say that discussing your kids' IQs when they are in any way around is a dangerous thing to do. I mean, it sounds like you are gossiping about your kids. That may well not be the INTENTION, but any child overhearing what the parents are talking about might come away from such a conversation with some really big feelings and questions or frustrations. I am one who generally does not talk about my kids if they are in the same building, and then if they are not there I am still quite careful how I talk with others about them. I find that whatever you say can come back to you in a different way than you intended, and that talking about others in general is rarely productive.

So my PERSONAL suggestion for this is to have a parents only support group if that sort of talk needs to happen, and at any playgroup parents would keep the conversation generally more on interests and projects and whatnot - not the kids themselves. I would also suppose that this sort of set-up would make it easier for you to be comfortable around your friend.

Tjej

[connieculkins]

Thank you to all for your comments. I think I'll just let anyone come to the group meetings if they want to, but I will make it clear that this is a 'gifted' support group for gifted children and parent socializing at the outset. We can talk about general testing, but I will try to steer clear of talking about personal test results. I do want to talk about personal issues though, even if this is considered gossiping because I want to know these people personally and that's hard to do if you only talk about shared activities and such.

I talked to my friend and she now thinks that her child is gifted . Apparently, her oldest maxxed out 2/3 end of the year assessments at the school with 100s (math and analysis) and is reading a couple of years ahead too. Also, he made straight As all year with little effort according to her. The principle told her that her child is one of the smartest in the school based on the results of his tests and is going to have the teacher differentiate the curriculum in the fall. Out of curiosity what do you guys think about her kid? Gifted or bright?

[rhiandmoi]

Does it matter? If her child is "merely" bright he is still going to need educational challenges, and those are going actually be harder for her to get because she won't have a test score to back up what she is asking for.

[HeatherB]

I think that a support group for gifted families is a worthwhile endeavor. I do think it would be very hard to tell someone their child is or isn't gifted. You really can't know, and even statistics show that a parent is usually the best judge of that. I believe the best you can do to ensure everyone is on the same page is to write up a piece (brief) about the intent and purpose/focus of the group. You may want to include information about giftedness, or not. If someone chooses the group, then they know what they're getting into.

And, honestly, if someone is coming and is finding they don't have much in common, they may simply stop attending. I agree that it's not a good idea to tell someone whether or not you think their child is gifted and therefore if they belong in the group. Let the group work itself out naturally as people are either drawn in or out.

[Roar]

Support of people sharing similar concerns can certainly be helpful. Any benefit from support is totally canceled out in my book when you start to engage in these sorts of evaluations of the worthiness of other children to attend. Or, even worse when you ask random people on the Internet to evaluate it. It is disconcerting to me that you seem to find the opinions of people you don't know about a child we've never met, to carry more weight than the opinion of your "friend" who is his mother.

I would run from this sort of group as fast as I could.

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by connieculkins

I talked to my friend and she now thinks that her child is gifted .

Why are you rolling your eyes?

Between this and "feeling sorry" for her kids, I think your friendship with her will die a natural death. Your attitude will come across, and she won't want to be around you.

But it doesn't sound like you want to be around her anyway, just other parents whose kids you considered gifted.

[mamadebug]

Wow. I can see having a group for parents who feel they are dealing with similar parenting issues. I can't see having a play group for only "gifted" kids (or for kids who have any one trait in common - can you imagine trying to put together a play group for "not so bright" kids for instance?!?). Kids can have fun with other kids, and in fact need to learn to get along with all kinds of people, regardless of "giftedness". My 5 year old had a great time playing with a 3 year old recently and an 8 year old with Down's Syndrome a while back and kids his own age of varying "brightness" just today, etc. There are often toys that appeal to various levels at our home and the homes of the kids we play with - it doesn't seem to hinder anyone's play and no one feels sorry for kids if they choose toys that other kids have outgrown.

Evaluating some other person's kid and that kid's intelligence doesn't seem fair or to serve any purpose, really. I have to say, though, as a former teacher, I only had 1 kid in my three years of teaching who I would have considered "gifted" - but many parents who thought their kids were gifted. When setting up play time for kids, it doesn't matter if the other parents think their own kid is gifted or not. It really doesn't matter to the kids if their parents think they are gifted or not.

[number572]

Why would you want to nurture this exclusion so early? If your child is gifted, social differences will come too soon, naturally, for him. I say, let him play for the sake of playing, until it becomes a real problem. Right now, the problem seems to reside within you & fear, not your kid & his desires. You seem pressured by the idea that you have to do certain things for your kid to remain gifted, or even stimulated properly by other kids, b'c he's gifted - NOT so. He will be gifted even if he hangs out with average people. He may even be inspired by some of us/them.

We are a world of average, why not let him think the absolute best of average people? You can teach him that. And let him know that he can help the world too, and that, b'c he's highly intelligent, that he could help in a way that maybe no one else has thought of yet! Thru his uniqueness. Not b'c "no one else" is capable, but rather to give him an avenue to express his unique ideas... does that make sense? His attitude toward other kids doesn't have to be exclusive or superior (which is what you're sowing, whether you're aware of that or not), and he can still be VERY special, while being a super cool, inclusive, social kid.

I think its dangerous territory to teach your kid that he's better than other kids, which is what you describe your desired playgroup to be. Your kid will be pretentious if you raise him in a pretentious environment. Its healthier to let your kid experience a full platter as opposed to a select plate, given the world he will eventually LIVE in... he's gonna have to live with every level of people at some point, yk?

[connieculkins]

Originally Posted by mamadebug

Evaluating some other person's kid and that kid's intelligence doesn't seem fair or to serve any purpose, really. I have to say, though, as a former teacher, I only had 1 kid in my three years of teaching who I would have considered "gifted" - but many parents who thought their kids were gifted. When setting up play time for kids, it doesn't matter if the other parents think their own kid is gifted or not. It really doesn't matter to the kids if their parents think they are gifted or not.

Not to derail my own thread, but why does this comment not surprise me? Why do teachers (especially of public schools) seem to think that parents overestimate their child's giftedness? Everything I've read indicates that teachers are actually very poor judgers of giftedness and that parents tend to be the most accurate in their assessments. Oddly, I think that it should be teachers who should notice giftedness, but something seems to hold them back from labeling a child something more than 'bright'. My son's teachers never mentioned anything to me about a possibility of giftedness and assuming they would know, I didn't investigate further. It was only when he started telling me how he stood out as smart and different and started having social issues as a result that I began to wonder. It was the counselor and principle together who told me his scores were exceptional and that he needed to be put in the pull out program, but I'm still left wondering why his teacher still never said anything to me. She never even gave me the scores for the school tests...Oddly, she only volunteered to tell me his one lowest score, neglecting to tell me that he scored in the gifted range for all the others. Maybe I'm being paranoid, but it seemed like she wanted to find proof that he wasn't gifted and to make sure I knew it.

Also, it seems that teachers don't find their students gifted, but it does seem like a disproportionate number of teachers find their own children to be gifted. I find that also kind of strange.