Three Year Old Troubles...Need ideas and tips!

[silverspook]

DS1 is 3 1/2. He is an intense, energetic, amazing child...who drives me nuts. I also just had DS2, who is 1 month old.

DS1 has some behaviors that set my temper off because I have been unable to deal with them. I do not like to yell, spank, etc. but that's where we've been these last few weeks because I am just worn out.

What happened today: It's DS1's naptime (we call it rest time), and DS2 was already fussy and needing to nurse. DS1 is jumping on his bed and refuses to lay down. I explain that it's rest time and he needs to lay down. He turns his head away and ignores me. I physically lay him down and offer to tuck him in. He pops back up. We go through this again and I explain to him that I am going to walk away, and then do so. As soon as I turn around he goes from ignoring me to crying and whining "Yes I want you to tuck me in!!" over and over, getting loud enough to wake the baby if he's sleeping, as I walk away. So I turn around and politely say "Ok, please lay down so I can tuck you in." He immediately turns his head away and ignores me again. I touch his face and turn his head towards me, but he darts his eyes as far away from me as he can. I say, "Eli, I can not tuck you in sitting up. Please lay down." Nothing. I walk away and he freaks out again. This goes on for 10-15 minutes until I get frustrated enough and yell at him or spank him. Then he behaves out of fear. Earlier today he said "Mommy you scare me when I'm in my bed." It broke my heart.

Clearly my current reasoning/walking away technique isn't working, but I'm at a loss with how to deal with this annoying blatant ignoring & freaking out routine. This routine goes on anytime DS1 is upset or doesn't get his way by the way, it's not just at nap time. I don't have time to read books (and really can't afford them while I'm staying at home anyway) so please, tell me what to do!!!

[quietserena]

How about something out of Playful Parenting? Basically making the whole being tucked into bed a game (maybe you can be bears hibernating for the winter, who get to be rowdy bears later?) Or, could he help you with the baby?

My own 3.5 yr old though would never stand for nap time (she gave it up at 2) so in my case, I'd find a way to keep her entertained otherwise. lately she has enjoyed shaving cream piles while in the high chair. Messy but then i pop her into the tub afterwards and it turns into a fun hour. She also does well with homemade playdough and a plastic knife (loves to cut) and paint. And now that she is a bit older, I can trust her to some point not to hurl these things at the wall if I can't get to her right the moment she calls. That took a while too!

[reezley]

It is very hard with a 3 year old and a baby! I have 2.25 years between mine and it naptime/bedtimes were the hardest times! I'm glad you're trying to turn around the spanking, and the yelling. I yell too often, myself, and I'm doing much better these days at stopping it, because I'm SURE that it only hypes up the whole situation more. Here are my ideas in no particular order:
1) Do get some books. Is there a library near enough to you that you can make a trip every few weeks? Yard sales are good too. If we didn't have new books around all the time then we'd hardly ever have quiet times around here! A pile of cute books, flap books maybe, might give you a little chunk of rest time.
2) My 3 year old doesn't lie down for nap/quiet time either. Never could get either kid to nap after about 2 years old. It's probably time to stop fighting it and set up another kind of activity. A kids' CD or book on tape (again, we get these at the library), felt board (also could be a project to make a simple one), playdough and cutters, etc.
3) Give fewer chances to change his mind. After one or two times going back and forth between "I do want it!" and "I don't want it!" it's time to cut off the conversation and say you're not going to go back and forth about it anymore. Then maybe give a suggestion for a new activity he can do if he chooses and just leave it to him to go do it or not. I realize it may be noisy if he's still loudly complaining but my guess is that will stop sooner than keeping on with the arguing! Took me a while to realize that with my first kid.

Good luck!!

[waiting2bemommy]

I have started doing picture stories with ds. we paste them on the back of his door and when we've gone through everything (water, story, blowing his nose---that's his latest thing to postpone bedtime), I leave his room. If he cries, wails, kicks his pillows, whatever, I warn him once or twice to be quiet and then I come back and calmly close his door explaining that I will be happy to open it when it's not so noisy for the rest of us. one of two things happpens: he falls asleep carrying on with the door shut (still ajar so I can check on him) or he calms down, i open it, and then I don't care what he's doing as lon as he's in his bed and it's dark and quiet. eventually he'll fall asleep.

[quietserena]

Something else occurred to me because we had a similar thing happen at bedtime:
Could it be that yelling has become part of the naptime routine? In our case it had because DD1 knew we werent serious untili someone hollered. We had to change things around for a while until that association went away. Now she asks for bed herself and I wonder how long it'll last at htis age...

[sunshadow]

My daughter does the same behaviors. I swear she did the same thing today during quiet time. Acts like she doesn't hear me and then when I leave wants me to do what she said no to or ignored. I do tend to use reverse psychology a lot. She she says no I say "Ok, you can't do that" and leave and she will immediately want to do it. We have a set quiet time. She knows how it works and what is expected. I tell her she can play on her own or we can read together in bed. I also have a baby and he comes with us for that, which is hard, but I figure it's more about the routine than actually getting her to sleep. If she is being disagreeable it's usually because she is overtired or hunger/thirsty or something. If I talk to her at her level and explain to her what I need it can sometimes help. Also, you don't need to buy books. Right now my daughter loves just looking at catalogs and there is always the library or thrift store and yard sales.

[Tjej]

When I end up in what seems like a "no-win" situation like you described, I try to step back and reconsider it all. What exactly am I wanting to get out of it? What is my child wanting to get out of it? What exactly is making me angry (generally it is that the child is not doing what I tell them to when I tell them to )? How can I change my expectations so that this doesn't need to be a fight anymore?

I would suppose that for your situation you know your child needs rest, you want peace for a bit and you feel torn needing to care for DS2 at the same time. So you feel angry that your DS1 is making it so these things are not happening.

I think you could approach it a couple of ways. If the nap itself really is important to continue, then dealing with nursing DS2 first and then working on the napping could help. Or you sitting in a chair in the bedroom nursing baby while telling a story to your other child might work?

If you needing some peaceful time to yourself is the priority, then finding a quiet thing for your child to do while you get that quiet time would be the best solution. A CD that your child listens to and can talk with Mommy after it is done. A few toys to play with quietly somewhere until a timer goes off (or until you go get him). A special project or toy that is only for that time of day that will hold his interest...

It takes time to develop new routines. 2 minutes of quiet time can build into 10 and into 30 and more. Naptime stories might be too exciting for your child and you sitting silently might work better. Life's a work in progress. You can figure it out.

Tjej

[dziwozony]

Most 3yo I know have dropped their afternoon nap. My son turned 3 in May & still naps sometimes, but not consistantly. I wonder if you just really want quiet time? If that's the case introducing another quiet activity might help. I admit I often let my DS watch a movie when I need a break & miss having that nap time. (I also have an 18mo, so a busy household!)

[silverspook]

Originally Posted by quietserena

How about something out of Playful Parenting? Basically making the whole being tucked into bed a game (maybe you can be bears hibernating for the winter, who get to be rowdy bears later?) Or, could he help you with the baby?

This is a great idea! He loves pretending to be a superhero, I'll see if I can incorporate that into it.

Originally Posted by reezley

It is very hard with a 3 year old and a baby! I have 2.25 years between mine and it naptime/bedtimes were the hardest times! I'm glad you're trying to turn around the spanking, and the yelling. I yell too often, myself, and I'm doing much better these days at stopping it, because I'm SURE that it only hypes up the whole situation more. Here are my ideas in no particular order:
1) Do get some books. Is there a library near enough to you that you can make a trip every few weeks? Yard sales are good too. If we didn't have new books around all the time then we'd hardly ever have quiet times around here! A pile of cute books, flap books maybe, might give you a little chunk of rest time.
2) My 3 year old doesn't lie down for nap/quiet time either. Never could get either kid to nap after about 2 years old. It's probably time to stop fighting it and set up another kind of activity. A kids' CD or book on tape (again, we get these at the library), felt board (also could be a project to make a simple one), playdough and cutters, etc.
3) Give fewer chances to change his mind. After one or two times going back and forth between "I do want it!" and "I don't want it!" it's time to cut off the conversation and say you're not going to go back and forth about it anymore. Then maybe give a suggestion for a new activity he can do if he chooses and just leave it to him to go do it or not. I realize it may be noisy if he's still loudly complaining but my guess is that will stop sooner than keeping on with the arguing! Took me a while to realize that with my first kid.

Good luck!!

I should have specified, I meant parenting books. We have tons of books for DS1 that I rotate out so he always has something new to read.

Originally Posted by waiting2bemommy

I have started doing picture stories with ds. we paste them on the back of his door and when we've gone through everything (water, story, blowing his nose---that's his latest thing to postpone bedtime), I leave his room. If he cries, wails, kicks his pillows, whatever, I warn him once or twice to be quiet and then I come back and calmly close his door explaining that I will be happy to open it when it's not so noisy for the rest of us. one of two things happpens: he falls asleep carrying on with the door shut (still ajar so I can check on him) or he calms down, i open it, and then I don't care what he's doing as lon as he's in his bed and it's dark and quiet. eventually he'll fall asleep.

We shut the door too after a few warnings. DS1 doesn't calm down with the door shut though, in fact he gets 10x more upset and screams louder and will continue until we go back in or he gets up and opens the door himself.

Originally Posted by quietserena

Something else occurred to me because we had a similar thing happen at bedtime:
Could it be that yelling has become part of the naptime routine? In our case it had because DD1 knew we werent serious untili someone hollered. We had to change things around for a while until that association went away. Now she asks for bed herself and I wonder how long it'll last at htis age...

Yes I think this is part of the problem, I just don't know how to fix it.

Originally Posted by Tjej

When I end up in what seems like a "no-win" situation like you described, I try to step back and reconsider it all. What exactly am I wanting to get out of it? What is my child wanting to get out of it? What exactly is making me angry (generally it is that the child is not doing what I tell them to when I tell them to )? How can I change my expectations so that this doesn't need to be a fight anymore?

I would suppose that for your situation you know your child needs rest, you want peace for a bit and you feel torn needing to care for DS2 at the same time. So you feel angry that your DS1 is making it so these things are not happening.

I think you could approach it a couple of ways. If the nap itself really is important to continue, then dealing with nursing DS2 first and then working on the napping could help. Or you sitting in a chair in the bedroom nursing baby while telling a story to your other child might work?

If you needing some peaceful time to yourself is the priority, then finding a quiet thing for your child to do while you get that quiet time would be the best solution. A CD that your child listens to and can talk with Mommy after it is done. A few toys to play with quietly somewhere until a timer goes off (or until you go get him). A special project or toy that is only for that time of day that will hold his interest...

It takes time to develop new routines. 2 minutes of quiet time can build into 10 and into 30 and more. Naptime stories might be too exciting for your child and you sitting silently might work better. Life's a work in progress. You can figure it out.

Tjej

Thank you for the great ideas! He is very stubborn, but I must admit, he gets it from me. It's a power struggle with him because he is exactly like me. At this stage, I feel that naps are still needed, because he is a major grump the rest of the day and fights bedtime at night if he doesn't get some snooze time in during the afternoon. We have an old "boom box" type CD player that's collecting dust, I will dig it out and incorporate some music into rest time.

Originally Posted by dziwozony

Most 3yo I know have dropped their afternoon nap. My son turned 3 in May & still naps sometimes, but not consistantly. I wonder if you just really want quiet time? If that's the case introducing another quiet activity might help. I admit I often let my DS watch a movie when I need a break & miss having that nap time. (I also have an 18mo, so a busy household!)

3yo and 18mo? Wow! Like I said above, I really feel like he still needs a nap. We already have a couple of hours of TV incorporated into our routine while we are adjusting to life with the new babe, so I hate to let him watch anymore than he already is. Hopefully as time goes on we will get better about less TV during the day and then a movie at rest time will be an appropriate choice.

Thanks for the replies Mamas. DH heard my cries of frustration and brought home a bottle of wine that evening. Between that, a break, the support of this forum, and some much needed rest (1 mo old DS2 gave me an 8 hour stretch last night!!!) I am feeling refreshed and ready to be a better sahm come Monday. I also plan on explaining to him that the way I have been acting is wrong, and that I am going to try very hard to be kind and loving. Hopefully that will help with the mimicking of my angry behavior that he's starting to do.